Vande Mataram (National Song of India) issued a fatwa by "Indian" muslims!!

[eriko]

Eriko, you bring up some excellent points. There are ways to stop Muslim aggression in India that don't involve resorting to the same tactics as Muslims. You seem to have some insights into the finer points of Indian law that I do not.

Actually there are many other things that need to de done. The problem is not Muslim/Christian ideology or their unethical conversions but the reluctance of the Hindus residing in India to bring Hindu Dharma in the mainstream and make it their priority. Hindus just don't exert their right to freedom of expression of healthy religion. Either you get those extremist or the people who tag you as saffron.

Use the law. But it needs patience, money and good lawyers. But atleast perception about the Hindus would surely start to change. If you really want to do something, this is the right way. RTI (Right to Information Act) is the best thing in the world.

Hindus need to connect their religion to nationality not in an extremist way but as fact and their human right. The need is the right approach. Many Hindus treat nation and religion as completely nothing to do with each other thing, which is not the case with Muslims and Christians and that is why they get away with their extremist policies.

It has to be realized that after water, food and cloth the right to express religion should also be given priority. The thing is, people think that religious needs are not essential but this thought has to be changed.

[SANT]

he thing is, people think that religious needs are not essential but this thought has to be changed.

Religious needs??
Can you list these religious needs.
Does it involve having more astrologers, more vaastu people, more pandits or religious tour guides telling you -'100 ka darshan 500 ki pooja',
or does it involve something good as not eating beef, telling the truth,being more honest to you country,thinking rationally,charity,integrity.
Please tell me.

[eriko]

Religious needs??
Can you list these religious needs.
Does it involve having more astrologers, more vaastu people, more pandits or religious tour guides telling you -'100 ka darshan 500 ki pooja',
or does it involve something good as not eating beef, telling the truth,being more honest to you country,thinking rationally,charity,integrity.
Please tell me.

Emotional religious needs. The right to assert one's religion. It is a neccesity for a free mind to think independently. Things like that. Look it depends on how you interpret this. This is a very individual thing.

[TatTvamAsi]

Eriko,

Although your approach seems plausible, it will simply not work. Here is why:

1.) Forming an RTI group is like going to a muslim gathering and preaching about SD or some other religion. Either they will completely ignore you or worse, will attack you physically threatening violence.

2.) Integrate Kashmir? And how do we do that? Spread our arms wide and ask them to hug us? Give me a break! Of course we want ALL of Kashmir to be integrated properly, and by that we mean through force, the only language those animals (muslims) understand.

3.) I agree about education and especially making Hindus themselves aware of the crisis. However, there is just one hitch! 80% of so-called Hindus themselves will take arms against us under the guise of secularism and 'equal-rights' etc. They are far too myopic to see the inherent threat and danger of keeping these mlecchas (christians/muslims/communists) in India.

4.) File an 'application with the court'? Have you ever been to India? Do you know how court cases are handled there? If I filed a case such as this, I would either be lambasted by the secularists or it would take about 10 years for the first hearing to come up; perhaps even both! Going to courts in India will accomplish nothing unless the MAJORITY of the people see eye-to-eye on this matter. And that simply is NOT the case, at least currently.

5.) And what would happen when Hindus protest against the Hajj grants by the government? There will widespread riots by those subhuman animals (muslims) causing murder, havoc, and mayhem. In the end, there will be billions of dollars in damage while things regarding the grants remain at square one. In India, with the mindset of people there currently, the only form of government that can plausibly accomplish anything regarding these matters has to be a "TOP-DOWN" bureaucracy. The people themselves are far too apathetic, impotent, powerless, and ultimately phlegmatic in matters such as these. Therefore, only a very dedicated and strong leadership can accomplish anything; keeping force as a last resort.

6.) "Untouchables into the mainstream"? Since when were 'untouchables' kept "OUT" of the mainstream? Oh, you mean pedophiles, murderers, dacoits, and rapists? Well, tell me one society that integrates these kind of sociopaths and then we can talk about integration of untouchables. Currently, the only 'discrimination' (if it can even be called that) comes into importance during marriage and alliances. Just as an aristocratic son of a senator will not marry a daughter of the senate office janitor, people whose occupations vary widely will unlikely comingle. That is the fact of nature.

7.) I agree completely with you on abolishing the reservation system! It is a scourge and is taking its toll on the country. Hopefully IITs will still maintain their rigor in regards to education.

Look, I agree with your approach. It is just that I am highly skeptical of its success, especially in the short term: to rid India of these treacherous vermin (muslims/christians/communists).

I am all for settling this amicably. Let us see how far that will get us! However, it is foolish not to be prepared!

SATYAMEVA JAYATE!

JAI HIND!

Namaskar.

TatTvamAsi,

I can understand you feelings. But it is not good to jump onto retaliation. What ever that you have said can also be through peaceful policies and a bit of manipulation. If you are so keen on driving the muslim out. though I can't agree with you since the possibility seems so less, use the law.

1. First, form and RTI group, that challenges the so called secular policies favouring Muslims.

2. Second, integrate Kashmir into India, which means that the income of the Kashmirians as the national income and not there self income. Allow the Indians (non-kashmirians to buy propersty and live there.)

3. Educate Hindus that asserting their faith is not being associated with saffron. Join politics, change the perception of Hindu ideology. Lay emphasis on the greatest Hindu virtue of tolerance.

4. There are many places in the elections where the only the seats for Muslim/Christian candidates are reserved. File court application and challenge it.

5. Next, end the Haj grant given by the govt. to muslim pilgrims. And if they don't oblige then Hindus should be given funds to visit Kailash.

6. Then, we have to integerate our own people together that means the bringing untouchables into the mainstream.

7. End the OBC, and other such reservations. Because most of them have the term Hindu attached to it.

Do you know why Muslims are fighting for reservations? It is because in the constitution it has been underlined that that a dalit would get reservation conditioned that he is a Hindu.

The point is everything is connected. You cannot allienate Hindu expression of speech from the constitution. Use the law. That is what the Hindus don't do. The law is there in front of you. There are just too many loopholes.

I am not saying that all this is possible but at least if we start thinking on the on the lines that I have stated above, we might be able to something substantial. Bloodshed would only result in killing of our own people. And then only a minority of Hindus like yourself (this is not an accusation but a fact) stick to the ancient Hindu glory. Many Hindu youngsters are not too keen on it.

Tolerance is something that is emmbedded in the Hindu blood. We should retaliate but only after the Muslims are in arms against us and war has been declared but before that let just concentrate on asserting our right the legal way. RTI, RTI that is what I keep on shouting all the time. RTI is a gift to Hindus.

Don't fight the ideology but work on nullifying or equating the preferential treatement given to the muslims on the basis of so called secularism. Their dominance over India would automatically decrease and we would be able to co-exist peacefully in India.

I bet there are many groups are doing this but they need support.

[eriko]

1.) Forming an RTI group is like going to a muslim gathering and preaching about SD or some other religion. Either they will completely ignore you or worse, will attack you physically threatening violence.

Why? I don't think we should be concerned about what they feel. The whole point is that we should have the law behind us. I don't think anybody woudl be in teh power to oppose teh judgement by Supreme court, that is if teh matters become too worse.

2.) Integrate Kashmir? And how do we do that? Spread our arms wide and ask them to hug us? Give me a break! Of course we want ALL of Kashmir to be integrated properly, and by that we mean through force, the only language those animals (muslims) understand.

There are actually many things that need to be done. The point is step by step approach. I am sure their would be many restrictions like trade and other such thing. Look I don't know the what all is there. But we can start with letting non-Kashmirians have property there. Small small things. I don't know. I think we can only know what to do by asking someone who knows what all the non-kashmirians are not supposed to do.

3.) I agree about education and especially making Hindus themselves aware of the crisis. However, there is just one hitch! 80% of so-called Hindus themselves will take arms against us under the guise of secularism and 'equal-rights' etc. They are far too myopic to see the inherent threat and danger of keeping these mlecchas (christians/muslims/communists) in India.

But that is what we will be doing as well. I don't find anything wrong with empowering the muslims with western education. At least we shoould aim at empowering the muslim women (especially). So that they will bring more tranparency in Islam. Why are so adamnat at driving the non-hindus out when you know that it is not practically possible?

4.) File an 'application with the court'? Have you ever been to India? Do you know how court cases are handled there? If I filed a case such as this, I would either be lambasted by the secularists or it would take about 10 years for the first hearing to come up; perhaps even both! Going to courts in India will accomplish nothing unless the MAJORITY of the people see eye-to-eye on this matter. And that simply is NOT the case, at least currently.

But we can start with simple things. Example: according to the constitutions of India only Hindus are required to register their marriage while Muslims and Christians are not subjected to this rule.

5.) And what would happen when Hindus protest against the Hajj grants by the government? There will widespread riots by those subhuman animals (muslims) causing murder, havoc, and mayhem. In the end, there will be billions of dollars in damage while things regarding the grants remain at square one. In India, with the mindset of people there currently, the only form of government that can plausibly accomplish anything regarding these matters has to be a "TOP-DOWN" bureaucracy. The people themselves are far too apathetic, impotent, powerless, and ultimately phlegmatic in matters such as these. Therefore, only a very dedicated and strong leadership can accomplish anything; keeping force as a last resort.

That is what it is. Hindus have to show some intersest in politics. Do you really think that Sangh Parivar is doing anything? All they are doing is deterioting our chances of an equall footing in the law. With its stupid and unpractical ideologogy the BJP is loosing votes. What more they are not even enrolling young blood into their army. We need to shift and find practical and affordable solution to the present crisis. We need innovative ideas. We need youth and a better ideology.

6.) "Untouchables into the mainstream"? Since when were 'untouchables' kept "OUT" of the mainstream? Oh, you mean pedophiles, murderers, dacoits, and rapists? Well, tell me one society that integrates these kind of sociopaths and then we can talk about integration of untouchables. Currently, the only 'discrimination' (if it can even be called that) comes into importance during marriage and alliances. Just as an aristocratic son of a senator will not marry a daughter of the senate office janitor, people whose occupations vary widely will unlikely comingle. That is the fact of nature.

No I did not mean that. Of course untouchability is very much abolished. But yesterday I was reading this newspaper where this pro-muslim Hindu was talking about how there is crisis among the Hindus. And that the dalits will fight back. Either they will convert to other religions. You and I both know that there is no such problem but we need to tell this people. Especially people like the guy who was interviewed. People with such idelogy form a good proprtion of our population, you do agree with me on this?

Look, I agree with your approach. It is just that I am highly skeptical of its success, especially in the short term: to rid India of these treacherous vermin (muslims/christians/communists).

I know that this won't really work in the short term. But we want long term stability in the country. We should be aware of every factor that affects are autonomy as Hindus and we should do everything in our power lawfully to get rid of it.

I am all for settling this amicably. Let us see how far that will get us! However, it is foolish not to be prepared!

Of course, we can always lift arms.

Sorry I couldn't reply sooner. I was busy with school.

[LALKAR]

Namaste All,

Why fight within us

ofcourse Sanjaya and Eriko are youngsters even Tatv G needs support of Youngsters, But experience is also important .

This is Kaliyug, Dharm will not Rule, I think Tats Tuvm Asi G, will admit that.
But we must fallow the path of Dharm for Moksh.
Dharm Prachar. I think Eriko hinted at it.
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