Page 1 of 9 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 81

Thread: The Bickerings/Complaints

  1. #1

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    There is no point in desiring to live less or living without involved in action (not just agni hotra, though it used to be a nitya karma for a certain set of people). This is simple meaning of the verse, the same being reflected from in the whole of gita.

    Till I picked up and read sankara bhasya of gita, I regarded him as the person who saved sanatana dharma. After reading his gymnastics with gita to prove supremacy of sannyasa and jnana - I now know he is one of the person's who destroyed sanatana dharma. Historically the begining of the decline of sanatana dharma, the dominance of emotional bhavavada and destruction of kshatriya thought can be traced back to his time.

    It is indeed better to be a bauddha than this strange doctrine he proposed to explain few verses of some upanisads - destroying an entire religion in the process.

    Good thing is that we had the agamic and tantric religion to save the day, though hypocritically his followers picked even tantra up as something propagated by sankara and changing it to suit their limited ideas.

    Most people will pee their pants to admit this, unless he is a hater of vedic religion or a vaishnava fanatic.
    What is Here, is Elsewhere. What is not Here, is Nowhere.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    63
    Posts
    3,218
    Rep Power
    4728

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Namaste Sm78,

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    Till I picked up and read sankara bhasya of gita, I regarded him as the person who saved sanatana dharma. After reading his gymnastics with gita to prove supremacy of sannyasa and jnana - I now know he is one of the person's who destroyed sanatana dharma. Historically the begining of the decline of sanatana dharma, the dominance of emotional bhavavada and destruction of kshatriya thought can be traced back to his time.
    Can you prove this through History, sm78 ? The Hindus became weaker not because of Sankara's philosophy. Absolutely not ! You must understand that not even 0.001 % of Hindus are even aware of Sankara's bhasya of Gita, let alone read it & be affected by what it says. It was actually Sankara who saved Hinduism from the onslaught of Buddhism.

    I myself have tried to see how India, which once had the strongest & richest empire in India since Chandragupta Maurya & in whole of Gupta dynasty, deteriorated & became so weak. My finding is that the strong dynasty set up by Chandragupta Maurya became after Kalinga war in the time of Ashok. After Kalinga war, Ashok became a hardcore Buddhist. He spent a very huge amount of money to spread the teachings of Buddha .... not only in India but also outside India. The revenue which was to be used to maintain a strong army, improve economy & scientific research was spent for spreading Buddhism. You may like to do some research & get some idea on how much he spent on this madness.

    Due to this policy of Ashok, the needed inputs to strengthen army (which was considered more of a liability by Ashok after Kalinga war) & research required to maintain edge in warfare stopped. This gradually led to collapse of the empire & also weakening of India as a country as it disintegrated into many small states. They had lost their power to defend themselves as they lost their unity & that led to defeat of India as a nation first at the hands of the aggressors from the Islamic world & then by the British. The Islamic aggressors who settled here, tried to accept India as their country but then it was a very difficult task for them to be readily accepted by the Hindu Kings ruling in various states. Akbar tried to bring a new face of secular & strong united India but his all efforts were brought to a naught by a hardcore Muslim successor Aurangjeb. He lost sympathy of all Hindu Kings & the Hindu masses. That led to disintegration of this nation again into many states who were very weak economically & also militarily. On the top of it, whatever strength they had, they used that in fighting among each others. How could such a nation save itself from the onslaught of a united, disciplined force of the west who had a very strong scientifically advanced stockpile of arms with them ?

    You are doing the same mistake unknowingly what our forefathers did. Your thoughts will only help dividing the Hindus ( now as Advaitins & non-advaitins) again & weakening us ( may be only a little but why should we allow that ?). It is time we learn from our history.

    No, you are not at all helping the Hindu society. I hope you understand.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #3

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Quote Originally Posted by sm78 View Post
    There is no point in desiring to live less or living without involved in action (not just agni hotra, though it used to be a nitya karma for a certain set of people). This is simple meaning of the verse, the same being reflected from in the whole of gita.
    Well, that is a straight forward and sensible interpretation.

    Till I picked up and read sankara bhasya of gita, I regarded him as the person who saved sanatana dharma. After reading his gymnastics with gita to prove supremacy of sannyasa and jnana
    This obsession with being a useless sanyasi perhaps contributed to the decay of Indic civilization.But as i understand sankaracharya was a man of action.There appears to be a dichotomy between what he preached and what he did.

    Historically the begining of the decline of sanatana dharma, the dominance of emotional bhavavada and destruction of kshatriya thought can be traced back to his time.
    The rot, it appears was set much earlier.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    63
    Posts
    3,218
    Rep Power
    4728

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Namaste Atanu,

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Nothing can be simpler. If one fails to understand this simple thing then only one sees evils all around -- starting with Muslims, then Christians, then Gandhi, and then Shankaracharya. Finally, Hinduism itself may be abandoned?
    The Reality is "Asti, Bhaati & Preeti". There is one reality which actually exists, which appears as the multitude within this creation & which is nothing but Love. So, that gives me an instrument to check if I am on the right path or I am treading a wrong path. How ?

    The Reality is Preeti & if my path teaches me hatred & not Preeti/love for all around me, I am certainly not on the right path. This is a simple test for me.

    However, here, I have been witnessing hatred even on non-issues :

    a) Supreme God is only Vishnu. I am a Vaishnavite & only I am on the right path ! I hate Shavites & Shaktas who think that Shiva or the mother goddess are as Supreme as Vishnu.
    b) I hate homosexuals because their sexual orientation is different from what is "natural".
    c) I simply hate Advaitin because I don't understand what their philosophy is !
    d) I hate Mahatma Gandhi because he doesn't subscribe to my idea of the correct path. I would never give him any credit for his efforts towards our independence. Actually, he did all this because somewhere inside, he was a non-Hindu !
    e) I actually hate everyone who preach Ahimsa/non-violence.
    f) I hate eating meat & so I hate any idea which supports meat eating. To tell you frankly, I really hate those people.
    g ) I hate Sankaracharya because my idea of Truth doesn't match what he said !

    The last one is certainly the highest peak among all hate peaks to climb !

    I must make it clear that everything whatever is written above has been taken from the discussions on this forum only.

    OM
    Last edited by devotee; 13 November 2009 at 06:17 AM. Reason: typo
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #5

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    I'm seeing what you're seeing, but I had a slightly different perception:
    a) Supreme God is only Vishnu. I am a Vaishnavite & only I am on the right path ! Who are influenced by Abrahamics and therefore want to intolerantly missionize everybody into knowing the only TRUE and PROPER path...Theirs! I'm afraid of Shavites & Shaktas who think Shiva or the mother goddess (this causes greatest unease) are as Supreme as Vishnu.

    b) I am disapproving of homosexuals who do not think to change a promiscuous lifestyle and want to encroach western moral liberalism into traditional values such as bramacharya and marriage... And yes, because their sexual orientation is different from what is "natural". (I'm not saying this is right but can't deny)


    c) I simply get annoyed hearing Advaitin justifications because they often sound like gobbydegook (who would admit not understanding! ) because it's easy to fly into higher dimension off the chessboard to avoid checkmate.)

    d)I am grieved by and reject Mohandas Gandhi as Mahatma because he left legacy which condemned the Dharma of Kshattriya as "immoral" and "unspiritual" and interpreted from strict Jain(not Hindu) principles which alienated Sikhs from central government causing morchas since the foundation of independence;did nothing as a public political leader to bolster national defense during partition of Punjab andpreached suicide in face of declared Muslim jihad as a National public policy, which caused incalculable misery. Yet tried to soothe only Muslim communities while guilting Hindu/Sikh communities who suffered far worse; Left legacy of Congress Party in power riding coattails of his fame who promote extreme and idiotic secularism defending terrorists while demonizing Nationalists under delusion of respected non-violent principles who were later responsible for hypocritical massacre of Sikhs.

    I cannot help legacy of Gandhi name and Congress Party is so tarnished as to put kalunk on own face with Sajjan Kumar and Jagdish Tytler on election tickets.
    I would never give him any credit for his efforts towards our independence because his policies nearly destroyed Sikh community in partition. And because he aggressively propagated (non-Hindu) strict JAIN ahimsa as National policy while criticizing as "unspiritual" and "ignoble" the holiness of Kshatriya Dharm. Gandhi rejected Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj the Father of Sikhs and also Chatrapatti Shivaji Maharaj as"misguided patriots" while promoting own strict Jain ahimsa as superior moral and spiritual path, even as those following it were dying in millions.

    And for Nehru-Gandhi power party
    suppressing true value of Netaji Subash Chandra Bose and Azad Hind sacrifices and contribution to Indian independence only to enlarge their own glory.

    e) I actually am grieved by those who belittle suffering of Sikhs and Hindu's to blindly promote Gandhi's policies of Muslim appeasement, self-righteousness of Jain Ahimsa, and hypocritical secularism (which murders Sikhs, condemns Nationalists and defends Communist and Muslim terrorists and Christian missionaries in media) because they think strict Jain ahimsa will solve nuclear and terror crisis.
    Anyone who naively believes strict suicidal Jain ahimsa is a proper response to National security is a crazy person.

    (Police without bulletproof jackets and WWII era rifles responding to sophisticated equipment of professionally trained Mumbai terrorists and dying due to government neglect from lack of proper equipment is a national disgrace!)
    And such is the cost of blindly elevating Gandhi suicidal Ahimsa principles so high into the stratosphere that common sense is lost.

    Having pro-Communist and Pro-Muslim news media who manipulate sympathies of the public AGAINST Nationalists and the National security interest,
    OPEN DOORS to aggressive elements creating acts of terrorism. It's just more Gandhian suicidal illogic based on Jain-Buddhi heresy in the guise of spiritual Hinduism while trampling the noble ideal of Hindutva.

    f) I strongly disagree with people who condemn eating meat although I practice vegetarianism simply because strict vegetarianism is a Jain concept negating validity and holiness of Kshatriya Dharm. Guru Gobind Singh did hunt animals, regardless of whether anyone can prove Lord Ram did, and Akali Nihangs still practice a form of Kali jhatka puja and place blood tilak on shastars. So those who strictly condemn meat eating and animal sacrifice are still condemning Kshatriya Dharm in violation of Sruti of varna system against all Hindu heritage, while calling the same as spiritual heretics. Never in history of Hinduism did DHARMA survive without Kshatriyas.

    g ) I don't appreciate Sankaracharya Ji name dragged into debates to misinterpret him giving support for extreme Jain-Buddhi Dharm so it can unwisely be misapplied to political situations!
    There, fixed it. Was colorful no?
    Last edited by Harjas Kaur; 13 November 2009 at 06:36 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    63
    Posts
    3,218
    Rep Power
    4728

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    HK ji,

    I send my strongest love for you.

    May be that helps !

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    January 2007
    Location
    duhkhalayam asasvatam
    Posts
    1,450
    Rep Power
    92

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Pranam all

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post

    a) Supreme God is only Vishnu. I am a Vaishnavite & only I am on the right path ! I hate Shavites & Shaktas who think that Shiva or the mother goddess are as Supreme as Vishnu.
    b) I hate homosexuals because their sexual orientation is different from what is "natural".
    c) I simply hate Advaitin because I don't understand what their philosophy is !
    d) I hate Mahatma Gandhi because he doesn't subscribe to my idea of the correct path. I would never give him any credit for his efforts towards our independence. Actually, he did all this because somewhere inside, he was a non-Hindu !
    e) I actually hate everyone who preach Ahimsa/non-violence.
    f) I hate eating meat & so I hate any idea which supports meat eating. To tell you frankly, I really hate those people.
    g ) I hate Sankaracharya because my idea of Truth doesn't match what he said !

    The last one is certainly the highest peak among all hate peaks to climb !

    I must make it clear that everything whatever is written above has been taken from the discussions on this forum only.

    OM
    And all this has now become your irk, you see there is no escaping this hate.
    You may claim this is just an observation and that is true, that is call vivek which borders on both side of hate and love.

    To tell you frankly, I really hate those people.
    just a polite question is this your observation or your real hate?
    if it is just an observation, i have yet to come across anyone on this forum who has expressed this opinion, i may be wrong though.



    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  8. #8

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    I had to change neon colors in the above post because my eyes were spinning! I don't believe anybody on this forum is hating anybody. I understand every human being has emotional feelings and is pained over politics which so often fail our noblest aspirations. Everybody has some error of perception.

    I did not intend, while engaging in these debates to drag Gandhi down to level of nindya of a saint. Because that is always regrettable and wrong. To hurt another person's spiritual sentiments who is admiring a saint's good qualities only to magnify the bad is wrong. And I'm sorry for this. On the other hand, it should be recognized that not everyone thinks so highly of Gandhi. It should be respected that there are legitimate grievances with Gandhi's political policies. Gandhi's political policies also are not the same as his qualities as a saint. To criticize political policies is not criticizing a saint, even if it hurts his overly magnified reputation. And people shouldn't defend a saint by blindly whitewashing political policies that were ineffective or detrimental to the National interest.

    We should have the maturity and insight (vivek) to not blindly defend and cling to mistakes of the past and be able to learn from wise katha of spiritual minded people, even who disagree with us. There is no wisdom in silencing any legitimate voice. If we eliminate either side of the equation, there will be imbalance and grave harm to the Nation.

    We are all talking about Dharma, and we are all bound to abide by it, each according to their own varna. We can't negate that our priests and Vedic scholars and truly spiritual people will promote peace and kindness and justice heroically against injustice. Nor can we negate that our military, police and kshatriya communities will support destruction of the Nation's enemies. Vaishyas will promote negotiations and economic advantage. Shudras are bearing the unjust burden of poverty and hard work without advantages of social justice and safety net of protection and respectful gratitude and basic dignity and thus have become the Nation's weakest link in National vulnerability to the forces of Communism, Atheism, Christian missionaries, and Islamic jihadis. And in truth, no varna should be so unprotected, neglected, marginalized or defamed. Without the proper functioning of all the varnas the Dharma is doomed.

    A discussion should never go to the extreme where people speak in angry voices, and I am guilty here. Because this is what leads to unnecessary nindya of a respected saint and Father of the Nation hurting sentiments of good-hearted Indian people who I love. Gandhi cannot be denied his good qualities and contribution. And I'm sorry where I did so.But equally people shouldn't be unfairly demonizing Kshatriya dharm and politics of Nationalist opposition party or denying legitimate grievances with Gandhi policies either. This is what politics does. It paints with so broad a brush that truth is lost on both sides. Without a truthful foundation, the politics are guaranteed to fail.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    63
    Posts
    3,218
    Rep Power
    4728

    Re: Darkness of knowledge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganeshprasad View Post
    And all this has now become your irk, you see there is no escaping this hate.
    No. You are not getting it right.

    just a polite question is this your observation or your real hate?
    I send my love to you too !

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    mrityuloka
    Age
    52
    Posts
    3,729
    Rep Power
    337

    The Bickerings/Complaints

    Admin Note

    This thread has been created so that most bickerings and complaints can be posted here. I shall move all such posts to this thread.

    Thanks,
    satay

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •