Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 68

Thread: Aham Brahmasmi

  1. #41
    Join Date
    August 2006
    Age
    70
    Posts
    3,162
    Rep Power
    1911

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    namaste Atanu.

    Thank you for listing out the many references to Adi Shankara's famous quote "brahma satyam jagan mithya".

    IMHO, an advaitin does not need to make a distinction between bhakti as devotion and bhakti as service, since both Adi Shankara and RamaNa maharshi were as much devotees as jnAnis.

    Legend has it that in the famous TiruviDaimarudUr temple in Tamilnadu, Shiva worshipped himself, in order to demonstrate the shaivite Agama protocol.

    Adi Shankara visited this temple and engaged the brAhmaNa pandits there who were steeped in the Vedic karma kANDa rituals, in a debate on the superiority of Advaita. The brAhmaNas after listening to his discourses told him that their rituals and prayers were daily observed by Shiva who presided over the temple as MahAlingeshvara and that if Shiva endorses the correctness of Advaita they would follow the path. Thereupon Shankara prayed to Shiva, "O Lord of MadhyArjuna, you indeed are the essence of all Upanishads. It is your glory that is proclaimed in the Vedas. You are the Lord of all Gods, you are All-knowing. Please reveal before all the truth that Advaita which is the main point of the Vedas is true and thus remove the doubts of all".

    Even as the Acharya's prayers were over, a miraculous incident astonished everyone. The inside of the temple was bathed in a divine light and with it there was a voice from the heavens, deep and grave as the running clouds, proclaiming thrice, "satyam advaitam, satyam advaitam, satyam advaitam". (ref: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advaitin/message/14085)

    Such is the power of bhakti that a true jnAni has in the repertoire of his sAdhana.

    On a trivial and lighter note, we have the term 'Self Service' in some restaurants. An advaitin's sAdhana until he becomes a jIvanmukta is only that--'Self service'; thereafter he seeks to serve people by trying to liberate them, and that again is 'Self Service'!
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  2. #42
    Join Date
    August 2009
    Location
    new delhi
    Age
    31
    Posts
    96
    Rep Power
    38

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi


    On a trivial and lighter note, we have the term 'Self Service' in some restaurants. An advaitin's sAdhana until he becomes a jIvanmukta is only that--'Self service'; thereafter he seeks to serve people by trying to liberate them, and that again is 'Self Service'!
    If a jivan mukta decides to serve people deosnt it mean that he is under satto guna.
    Please can you explain?

  3. #43
    Join Date
    August 2006
    Age
    70
    Posts
    3,162
    Rep Power
    1911

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    namaste Sant.

    By the term 'Self Service' I meant serving the Self that is Atman/Brahman, not the ego-ruled personal self of the jIvAtmA. A jIvanmukta who has realized the Self is essentially nirguNa, but he still has his physical and mental selves, and sattva guNa predominates them. He might choose to serve people by remaining at his place like RamaNa maharshi or wandering about the world like the ShankarAchAryas. A jIvanmukta might also have his disciples whose karma and guNa are bound to accrue to him, but since he is Self-Realized they get balanced in his nature as with the virAT, the Cosmic Consciousness.

    Human thoughts and the action of guNas always have their effects of vibrations in the ocean of subtle matter. A jIvanmukta who wades through them is never affected by them; nor does he just steer clear of them; instead, he cleans his surroundings of impurities in the thoughts, words and actions of those around him by shining the light of Atman and the heat of his own tapas. This is perhaps the reason that people around a jIvanmukta forget their worries for the time being, and benefit by the sattvic vibrations emanating from him.

    Inasmuch as jIvanmukta is always immersed in the Self, whatever he does is a service and worship to the Self, as Adi Shankara has prayed in his saundaryalaharI, verse 27:

    Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,
    Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,
    Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,
    Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,
    Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;
    Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,
    Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  4. #44
    Join Date
    August 2009
    Location
    new delhi
    Age
    31
    Posts
    96
    Rep Power
    38

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Yes thanks that was foolish
    A jivan mukta(mahapurush) decides to help someone then it is his grace and his own decision and not that he is attached to satto guna and has to do it.
    Just like when god graces us.
    This applies to their other actions also which may appear rajo guni or tamo guni.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    365

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Quote Originally Posted by SANT View Post
    Yes thanks that was foolish
    A jivan mukta(mahapurush) decides to help someone then it is his grace and his own decision and not that he is attached to satto guna and has to do it.
    Just like when god graces us.
    This applies to their other actions also which may appear rajo guni or tamo guni.

    Namaste Sant,

    But you were correct and you are correct. Say, a jeevan mukta continues to live in a body. He indeed lives as Sattwik-transparent mind --acting as an empty pipe transmitting the grace of Lord. But not as a bound. There are two types of karmas; one type binds and another does not. He does whatever is necessary.

    This is what is told of Jivanmuktas.

    Om

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    August 2009
    Location
    new delhi
    Age
    31
    Posts
    96
    Rep Power
    38

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi


    Namaste Sant,

    But you were correct and you are correct. Say, a jeevan mukta continues to live in a body. He indeed lives as Sattwik-transparent mind --acting as an empty pipe transmitting the grace of Lord. But not as a bound. There are two types of karmas; one type binds and another does not. He does whatever is necessary.

    This is what is told of Jivanmuktas.

    Om

    Om Namah Shivaya

    This is what is told of Jivanmuktas.
    No its not about that.
    I just wanted to attack the postion that one can be a jivan mukta.
    I just dont find the idea of a person being a hundred percent jivan mukt real.
    Look at the story of bharat.
    Wasnt he also a jivan mukta?
    But he got attached to the deer and had to be reborn.
    Upto brahm loka there is maya.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    365

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Quote Originally Posted by SANT View Post
    No its not about that.
    I just wanted to attack the postion that one can be a jivan mukta.
    I just dont find the idea of a person being a hundred percent jivan mukt real.
    Look at the story of bharat.
    Wasnt he also a jivan mukta?
    But he got attached to the deer and had to be reborn.
    Upto brahm loka there is maya.
    Namaste Sant,

    Then you should have told directly. Nevertheless, i believe similarly but not exactly. One who has not experienced something cannot say either this way or that way. Brahm loka (the Hiranyagarbha world and below) is the mental realm. Every night everyone escapes this sargo, without knowing, and dwells in Shushupti, in Sarvesvara. In deep sleep is anyone bound? Though it is rare but it is true that Jivan Mukti is a truth, as per shruti and smriti both. Lord Krishna himself teaches as below:

    5.19 Ihaiva tairjitah sargo yeshaam saamye sthitam manah;
    Nirdosham hi samam brahma tasmaad brahmani te sthitaah.

    5.19. Even here, in this world the created world is overcome by those whose minds rest in equality; Brahman is taintless indeed and equal; therefore, they are established in Brahman.

    5.28 Yatendriya manobuddhir munir mokshaparaayanah;
    Vigatecchaabhaya krodho yah sadaa mukta eva sah.

    5.28. With the senses, the mind and the intellect always controlled, having liberation as his supreme goal, free from desire, fear and angerthe sage is verily liberated for ever.
    ------------------------

    If something appears absolutely impossible to me that does not mean universal impossibilty.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    August 2009
    Location
    new delhi
    Age
    31
    Posts
    96
    Rep Power
    38

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    12.05 Self-realization is more difficult for those who fix their mind on the formless Brahman, because the comprehension of the unmanifest Brahman by the average embodied human being is very difficult.

    7.13
    Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth
    7.14
    This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    365

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Quote Originally Posted by SANT View Post
    12.05 Self-realization is more difficult for those who fix their mind on the formless Brahman, because the comprehension of the unmanifest Brahman by the average embodied human being is very difficult.

    7.13
    Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth
    7.14
    This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.
    Namaste Sant,

    Without surrendering doership it is not possible to attain yoga. But that was not the subject. The subject was JEEVAN MUKTI, which the following verses support without doubt,

    5.19 Ihaiva tairjitah sargo yeshaam saamye sthitam manah;
    Nirdosham hi samam brahma tasmaad brahmani te sthitaah.


    5.19. Even here, in this world the created world is overcome by those whose minds rest in equality; Brahman is taintless indeed and equal; therefore, they are established in Brahman.

    5.28 Yatendriya manobuddhir munir mokshaparaayanah;
    Vigatecchaabhaya krodho yah sadaa mukta eva sah.

    5.28. With the senses, the mind and the intellect always controlled, having liberation as his supreme goal, free from desire, fear and angerthe sage is verily liberated for ever.


    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    61
    Posts
    3,218
    Rep Power
    4723

    Rules for Dharmic Debates

    Namaste All,

    Discussions help us in understanding the Truth in much better way. However, these discussions must be constructive i.e. to find the Truth.

    What are the Rules for Dharmic Debates ?

    It has been a matter of great debate between the followers of path of ritual worshipping & those who tread the path of knowledge. I am not going to add any fuel to the fire here & create trouble for Satay. This post is intended to tell the history to relatively new entrants to Sanatan Dharma & also let them know the rules for a Dharmic debate.

    For any fair & civilized debate, it is important to lay down some rules for debate. It is also important to avoid personal attacks & use of foul language. All of us, including me, here on this board cannot claim to be more knowledgeable than either Sankara (promoter of Advaita Vedanta, also known as Maaya Vaad or Vivarta Vaad) or Madhavaacharya (Promoter of Dwaita Vaada). So, what should be the rules to follow in case of a dispute to be resolved ? The rules have been decided by the great Saints of the above Paths & they are based on Pramaana or proof which is acceptable to that school.

    There are six Vedic Darshanas of philosophy (schools) in Hinduism. They are Nyaaya, Vaiseshika, Saankhya, Yoga, Purva Mimansa (or Karma Mimansa, believers of ritual parts of Vedas) & Uttar Mimansa(or Vedanta Darshana). All these schools accept the Vedas as unquestionable & the highest authority. However, they differ in interpretation of the Vedas & therefore the dispute. Uttar Mimansa is also known as Vedanta Darshana. This school has various branches. However, the most important among them are : Advaita Vedanta, Dwaita, Vishishta Adwaita. The Vaishnva Sampradayas belong either to Dwaita or Vishishta Advaita School.

    The Pramaana accepted by all Vedic Darshanas are all or some of these :
    Sabda Pramaana (i.e. The Vedas), Pratyaksha Pramaana, Anumana, Upamana, Ardhapatti & Anupalabdi.

    Advaita Vedanta accepts all the six Pramanas mentioned above. Dwaita & Vishishta Advaita accept three of the six & they are : Sabda pramaana (the Vedas), Pratyaksha Pramaan (experiential) & Anumaana (by logical inference).

    The problem starts when we don’t follow the rules of a debate & start setting our own rules as per our convenience. So, as the three Pramaana i.e. Sabda pramaana (the Vedas), Pratyaksha Pramaan (experiential) & Anumaana (by logical inference) are common to both Advaita Vedanta & Dwaita/Vishishta Advaita, we must confine our debate to these pramaanas alone.

    My suggestion is that we should avoid these :

    a) Saying that Shankara was sent by God to misguide people & take them away from the path of Dharma in Kaliyuga. I simply don’t know what the basis of this canard is.
    b) The Advaitins are against devotion to God/Krishna. The reality is that Devotion to God & Karma Yoga is the primary requirement for being eligible to be accepted in Advaita Saadhana.
    c) The use of uncivilized words e.g. dim witted (mandabuddhi), rascals etc. for Advaitins as has been done on this forum in earlier debates by some followers of ISKCON which must be avoided. It doesn't help a healthy discussion.
    d) Refuting Advaita Darshana by (mis)quoting Puraanas (e.g. Bhagwat Purana etc.) or Smriti (e.g. Bhagwad Gita). The Smritis & Puranas must conform to the Vedas … this is the primary requirement of Sabda Pramaana & that has been accepted by the scholars of both schools. A lower court cannot pass a judgement against the High Court/Supreme Court's ruling !
    e) Not accepting Upanishadic quotes … this is akin to refuting Sabda Pramaana & against the accepted rules of debate. It is like not accepting the verdict of the Supreme Court in a matter of dispute in interpretation of law !

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The fact is that supremacy of Advaita Vedanta over other schools in Hinduism was settled by Aadi Guru Sankaracharya nearly 1200 years ago. In his time, the Sanatan Dharma was going through a very difficult phase. There were nearly 72 branches within Sanatan Dharma at that time & Vedic teachings were badly clouded due to misinterpretation of the scriptures. To establish the supremacy of Vedanta teachings, Sankaracharya travelled the whole of India & debated with the heads of different schools & defeated all of them. Prominent among those who were defeated, were Bhatta Bhaskar (author of fallacious commentary on Vedanta Sutras), Dandi, Maurya, Harsha (author of Khandana Khanda Kadya), Abhinavagupta, Murari Misra, Udayanacharya, Dharmagupta, Kumarila Bhatta (great teacher of Mimansa Darshana who is credited with defeating Buddhism in India, Prabhakar (a realist who believed that sense perceptions were true), learned couple Mandan Misra & his wife Bharati. The effect of this universal (among various thoughts within sanatan Dharma) victory of Sankaracharya was so great that most of the schools simply closed down & there is no trace of them today.

    And how they debated ? I am tempted to tell you about the debate that took place between Sankara & Mandan Misra. Mandan Misra was one of the strongest believers in Purva Mimansa. He almost hated Advaita teachings. However, when the debate started between the two scholars, Bharati, the wife of Mandan Misra was made the judge. We must give due credit to their fair way of debating ! Sankara was not afraid that Bharati who herself was a believer of Purva Mimansa before this debate & also wife of the opponent could be biased ! This debate went on for full seventeen days & at last Mandan Misra accepted his defeat. After his defeat, Bharati entered into this debate with Sankara saying that she was “ardhaangini” (other half of his husband) of Mandan Misir & unless she was also defeated, this was only half victory for Sankara. This debate too went on for another seventeen days & she accepted her defeat in all Shastras but said that she must be defeated in Kaama Shastra before she should accept final defeat at the hands of Sankara in debate. That is again another story & the end result was that after these debates, both Mandan Misir & his wife, Bharati accepted their defeat in front of Sankara, donated all their wealth & became his disciple. Mandan Misir got a new name after initiation into Sannyaas as Sureswara Acharya. Both of them went to Sringeri & Sureswar Acharya became the head of Sringeri Mutt.

    So, if we have to debate, why not debate like the above example ? I am not saying this to only “others” but to myself too.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •