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Thread: Aham Brahmasmi

  1. #51
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    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Quote Originally Posted by SANT View Post
    12.05 Self-realization is more difficult for those who fix their mind on the formless Brahman, because the comprehension of the unmanifest Brahman by the average embodied human being is very difficult.

    7.13
    Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth
    7.14
    This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.
    Namaste Sant,

    I find purity in your posts, so I dare to point out something. Please do not consider this as argument (and as final) but the following is only for your thinking. Compare the above verses of Gita (namely:7.13, 7.14, and 12.05) with the verses 5.19 and 5.28 which i posted. Do you not see the difference in context?

    The verses from the 5th chapter speak of an accomplished sage/yogi, whose seeking has already come to an end and who is situated in Pragnya without doubt and break and who has thus become the very heart of Lord. Lord also enjoins upon Arjuna "Be a yogi".

    Whereas, the verses 7.13 and 7.14 are for the seekers (like me).

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  2. #52
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    Let’s Know Adi Guru Shankaracharya a little better

    Namaste,

    Let’s Know Adi Guru Shankaracharya a little better

    Though, principally, Advaita Vedanta history is as old as the Upanishads themselves, Adi Guru Shankaracharya is credited with promoting this philosophy in its present incarnation. So, it is important that we know this one of the greatest Gurus of all times more appropriately.

    Somehow, post-ISKCON movement has seen a lot of bad-mouthing against this great saint. This great saint has been charged to be influenced by Tamo-Guna who incarnated to create confusion in the minds of people in Kaliyuga. It has been tried to show as if this Saint misinterpreted the Vedas & created a theory of Advaita Vedanta out of nowhere ! I have tried below to throw some light on this great Saint & I invite posts from our fellow members here on this forum to broaden our knowledge-base about him.

    Some Key Information :

    Birth : 788 AD
    Birth Place : Kaladi, Kerala
    Father : Sivaguru, temple priest, a Namboodari Brahmin, died when Sankara was only 7.
    Mother : Aryamba

    Extraordinary Intelligence : Sankara was an extraordinary brilliant child. At the age of sixteen itself he started writing Bhasyas (commentaries) on Bhagwad Gita, the Upanishads & Brahma Sutras.

    Initiated into Sannyaas : Earlier his mother was against his taking to Sannyaas, but she reluctantly consented to it when Sankara was caught by a crocodile and Sankara pleaded to her at that time. He was initiated into Sannyaas by Swami Govinda in Badrinath, a disciple of the great Advaita teacher, Gaudapad.

    Was he anti-Bhakti as depicted by some people ? :

    This is simply a canard which is completely baseless. He was an ardent devotee of God & he worshipped God in almost all forms revered within Hinduism. His Stotras are proof of his devotion. He composed various Stotras showing his devotion to Lord Shiva, Lord Krishna/Vishnu, Hanuman, Mother Goddess Laxmi, Lord Ganesha, Kaal Bhairava, Dakshinamurty etc. People who have gone to Rameshwaram must have witnessed Sphatik Linga worshipping early in the morning in the shrine. This Lingam was presented to the temple by Sankara.

    Did he promote inaction in the name of Advaita Vedanta ? :

    Throughout his life, Sankara was a man of always-in-action. We must remember that all his works, all his debates with various sects within Hinduism at that time, setting up of four Mutts (the first of its kind in Sanatan Dharma) in four corners of India, preaching Vedanta Darshana & bringing all sects under one umbrella … was all accomplished by this great man only within a short life-span of 32 years. Who can call this man promoting inaction ?

    What about his verse in Vivekachudamani that “liberation cannot be brought about by actions” (VC-7), “Abandoning all actions & breaking free from the bonds of achievement, the wise and intelligent should apply themselves to Self-knowledge (VC-10) ?

    First of all, actions have to be abandoned mentally & not physically. The central idea is renouncing of the doer-ship than the deeds. Though a Sannyaasi himself, he chose action & not inaction. Moreover, this is the path of Self-realisation & he advocated this only for people who were fit to take Sannyaas & not for common man. Let’s see what he said to common people in Purushottam Ratna Malika :

    PRM.12 : Q. Who is your enemy ?
    A. Laziness is your enemy.

    PRM.38. Q. For what should you take effort?
    A. To learn, to be healthy and to give in charity needs great effort.

    PRM. 45. Q. Whom will Gods worship?
    A. Gods will worship those who have mercy.

    PRM. 59. Q. What is Chathur pathram (the good four) which drives away the darkness of ignorance?

    1. Charity coupled with sweet words.
    2. Knowledge without pride.
    3. Valour with patience.
    4. Wealth with sacrifice.
    These four rare things are called the good four.

    PRM.75. Q. What should occupy your thought day and night?
    A. The feet of God and not this life.

    PRM. 79. Q. What should be spoken by men?
    A. The name of Hari.
    PRM. 81. Q. What should man earn?
    A. Knowledge, wealth, strength, fame and Punya (result of good deeds)

    PRM. 87. Q. What is like the ever perennial banyan tree?
    A. Charity given to the proper people.
    PRM.88. Q. What is the weapon for everybody?
    A. The capability of proving with just deeds.
    PRM.163.Q. Who is personification of all gods?
    A. A wise man who does all his Karmas


    Actually, he firmly believed that : Common householders should tread on Bhakti-Karma-yoga path & those who have graduated from the first step i.e Bhakti-Karma-Yoga should be considered for Jnana Yoga by initiating them into Sannyaas order.

    I hope the above post helps a little in dispelling the wrong information being spread.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #53
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    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekanta View Post
    Some food for thought...

    "All this is guided by Consciousness, is supported by Consciousness. The basis is Consciousness. Consciousness is Brahman [Prajnanam Brahma]."

    This whole world is prevaded by Me in My unmanifest form. All beings exist in Me, but I am not contained in them!” (Bhagavad Gita 9.4)

    I read a nice explanation of this that goes as follows:
    All beings exist in Me” = there is gold in ornaments
    but I am not contained in them” = there are no ornaments in gold
    Namaste Ekanta,

    The metaphor clarifies a lot of things without many words. How do we understand the following in conjunction with the above verse?

    BG 17.5. Those men who practise terrific austerities not enjoined by the scriptures, given to hypocrisy and egoism, impelled by the force of lust and attachment,
    BG 17.6. Senseless, torturing all the elements in the body and Me also, who dwells in the body,—know thou these to be of demoniacal resolves.

    Om Namaha Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  4. #54

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Bramhaji says in sribhagwatam...ye adhah patanti...
    people who follow these ladders, never fall to ignorance as Krsn says in gita...
    Ahankaaram balam darpam kaamam krodham parigraham;
    Vimuchya nirmamah shaanto brahmabhooyaaya kalpate.
    . Having abandoned egoism, strength, arrogance, anger, desire, and covetousness, free
    from the notion of “mine” and peaceful,—he is fit for becoming Brahman.
    Brahmabhootah prasannaatmaa na shochati na kaangkshati;
    Samah sarveshu bhooteshu madbhaktim labhate paraam.
    Becoming Brahman, serene in the Self, he neither grieves nor desires; the same to all
    beings, he attains supreme devotion unto Me.
    Bhaktyaa maamabhijaanaati yaavaanyashchaasmi tattwatah;
    Tato maam tattwato jnaatwaa vishate tadanantaram.
    By devotion he knows Me in truth, what and who I am; and knowing Me in truth, he
    forthwith enters into the Supreme.

  5. #55

    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaste Ekanta,

    The metaphor clarifies a lot of things without many words. How do we understand the following in conjunction with the above verse?

    BG 17.5. Those men who practise terrific austerities not enjoined by the scriptures, given to hypocrisy and egoism, impelled by the force of lust and attachment,
    BG 17.6. Senseless, torturing all the elements in the body and Me also, who dwells in the body,—know thou these to be of demoniacal resolves.

    Om Namaha Shivaya
    Hi atanu, as usual... its only an interpretation...

    BG 17.5. Those men who practise terrific austerities not enjoined by the scriptures, given to hypocrisy and egoism, impelled by the force of lust and attachment,
    BG 17.6. Senseless, torturing all the elements in the body and Me also, who dwells in the body,—know thou these to be of demoniacal resolves.


    There are four different qualities in man: humanness, animal nature, demonic nature, and divine nature.
    1. Divine: When he is following the Atma, he is manifesting his divinity.
    2. Demon: When he is subject to the vagaries of the mind, he becomes demonic.
    3. Animal: When man follows the dictates of the body, he is a prey to his animal nature.
    4. Human: When he is governed by all the three - the body, the mind and the Atma, he is human
    (SS 92)

    So… using the Buddhi for selfish/evil purposes instead of seeking divinity is the very definition of Demon. An animal cannot be a demon, it doesn’t know how… Only wanting sensual pleasure is basically animal behaviour.
    -------------
    About “torturing all the elements in the body and Me also

    I want to start out with another nice interpretation I found:
    Sat is “I” or Prema (love).
    Chit is Jnana (light/ knowledge).
    Ananda is the union of Sat & Chit.
    Nama/rupa [snake] is really Sat [rope], without Sat there’s no nama/rupa… [like ocean/ waves]

    We cannot say that Sat (I/Prema) is here or there, in the elements or in the body. All is Sat right? It’s just a play of increasing or decreasing light (chit/ jnana).

    Merit (Punya): increase Chit so we can notice all as Sat and get Ananda. [or rather decrease ignorance]
    Sin (Papa): decrease Chit so we don’t notice all as Sat and don’t get Ananda. [or rather increase ignorance]
    “There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done.” (sss20-15)

  6. #56
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    Re: Aham Brahmasmi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekanta View Post
    Hi atanu, as usual... its only an interpretation...

    BG 17.5. Those men who practise terrific austerities not enjoined by the scriptures, given to hypocrisy and egoism, impelled by the force of lust and attachment,
    BG 17.6. Senseless, torturing all the elements in the body and Me also, who dwells in the body,—know thou these to be of demoniacal resolves.

    There are four different qualities in man: humanness, animal nature, demonic nature, and divine nature.
    1. Divine: When he is following the Atma, he is manifesting his divinity.
    2. Demon: When he is subject to the vagaries of the mind, he becomes demonic.
    3. Animal: When man follows the dictates of the body, he is a prey to his animal nature.
    4. Human: When he is governed by all the three - the body, the mind and the Atma, he is human
    (SS 92)

    So… using the Buddhi for selfish/evil purposes instead of seeking divinity is the very definition of Demon. An animal cannot be a demon, it doesn’t know how… Only wanting sensual pleasure is basically animal behaviour.
    Namaste Ekanta,

    This again is very useful. True instinctive animals cannot be demons. (most times are not demons also so -- driven unknowingly towards cruelty etc.?)

    About “torturing all the elements in the body and Me also
    (
    I want to start out with another nice interpretation I found:
    Sat is “I” or Prema (love).
    Chit is Jnana (light/ knowledge).
    Ananda is the union of Sat & Chit.
    Nama/rupa [snake] is really Sat [rope], without Sat there’s no nama/rupa… [like ocean/ waves]

    We cannot say that Sat (I/Prema) is here or there, in the elements or in the body. All is Sat right? It’s just a play of increasing or decreasing light (chit/ jnana).

    Merit (Punya): increase Chit so we can notice all as Sat and get Ananda. [or rather decrease ignorance]
    Sin (Papa): decrease Chit so we don’t notice all as Sat and don’t get Ananda. [or rather increase ignorance]

    This is excellent. On first reading I was searching for the answer. Second time I got it. You have not separated the 'ME' from 'me'. That is bhakti, as per me. (yogis are in Me and I am in them).

    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 27 November 2009 at 12:48 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  7. #57

    Re: Let’s Know Adi Guru Shankaracharya a little better

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste,

    Let’s Know Adi Guru Shankaracharya a little better

    Though, principally, Advaita Vedanta history is as old as the Upanishads themselves, Adi Guru Shankaracharya is credited with promoting this philosophy in its present incarnation. So, it is important that we know this one of the greatest Gurus of all times more appropriately.

    Somehow, post-ISKCON movement has seen a lot of bad-mouthing against this great saint. This great saint has been charged to be influenced by Tamo-Guna who incarnated to create confusion in the minds of people in Kaliyuga. It has been tried to show as if this Saint misinterpreted the Vedas & created a theory of Advaita Vedanta out of nowhere ! I have tried below to throw some light on this great Saint & I invite posts from our fellow members here on this forum to broaden our knowledge-base about him.

    Some Key Information :

    Birth : 788 AD
    Birth Place : Kaladi, Kerala
    Father : Sivaguru, temple priest, a Namboodari Brahmin, died when Sankara was only 7.
    Mother : Aryamba

    Extraordinary Intelligence : Sankara was an extraordinary brilliant child. At the age of sixteen itself he started writing Bhasyas (commentaries) on Bhagwad Gita, the Upanishads & Brahma Sutras.

    Initiated into Sannyaas : Earlier his mother was against his taking to Sannyaas, but she reluctantly consented to it when Sankara was caught by a crocodile and Sankara pleaded to her at that time. He was initiated into Sannyaas by Swami Govinda in Badrinath, a disciple of the great Advaita teacher, Gaudapad.

    Was he anti-Bhakti as depicted by some people ? :

    This is simply a canard which is completely baseless. He was an ardent devotee of God & he worshipped God in almost all forms revered within Hinduism. His Stotras are proof of his devotion. He composed various Stotras showing his devotion to Lord Shiva, Lord Krishna/Vishnu, Hanuman, Mother Goddess Laxmi, Lord Ganesha, Kaal Bhairava, Dakshinamurty etc. People who have gone to Rameshwaram must have witnessed Sphatik Linga worshipping early in the morning in the shrine. This Lingam was presented to the temple by Sankara.

    Did he promote inaction in the name of Advaita Vedanta ? :

    Throughout his life, Sankara was a man of always-in-action. We must remember that all his works, all his debates with various sects within Hinduism at that time, setting up of four Mutts (the first of its kind in Sanatan Dharma) in four corners of India, preaching Vedanta Darshana & bringing all sects under one umbrella … was all accomplished by this great man only within a short life-span of 32 years. Who can call this man promoting inaction ?

    What about his verse in Vivekachudamani that “liberation cannot be brought about by actions” (VC-7), “Abandoning all actions & breaking free from the bonds of achievement, the wise and intelligent should apply themselves to Self-knowledge (VC-10) ?

    First of all, actions have to be abandoned mentally & not physically. The central idea is renouncing of the doer-ship than the deeds. Though a Sannyaasi himself, he chose action & not inaction. Moreover, this is the path of Self-realisation & he advocated this only for people who were fit to take Sannyaas & not for common man. Let’s see what he said to common people in Purushottam Ratna Malika :

    PRM.12 : Q. Who is your enemy ?
    A. Laziness is your enemy.

    PRM.38. Q. For what should you take effort?
    A. To learn, to be healthy and to give in charity needs great effort.

    PRM. 45. Q. Whom will Gods worship?
    A. Gods will worship those who have mercy.

    PRM. 59. Q. What is Chathur pathram (the good four) which drives away the darkness of ignorance?

    1. Charity coupled with sweet words.
    2. Knowledge without pride.
    3. Valour with patience.
    4. Wealth with sacrifice.
    These four rare things are called the good four.

    PRM.75. Q. What should occupy your thought day and night?
    A. The feet of God and not this life.

    PRM. 79. Q. What should be spoken by men?
    A. The name of Hari.
    PRM. 81. Q. What should man earn?
    A. Knowledge, wealth, strength, fame and Punya (result of good deeds)

    PRM. 87. Q. What is like the ever perennial banyan tree?
    A. Charity given to the proper people.
    PRM.88. Q. What is the weapon for everybody?
    A. The capability of proving with just deeds.
    PRM.163.Q. Who is personification of all gods?
    A. A wise man who does all his Karmas


    Actually, he firmly believed that : Common householders should tread on Bhakti-Karma-yoga path & those who have graduated from the first step i.e Bhakti-Karma-Yoga should be considered for Jnana Yoga by initiating them into Sannyaas order.

    I hope the above post helps a little in dispelling the wrong information being spread.

    OM
    Devoteeji
    What was the role of aadiguru towards Buddhism ?

  8. #58

    Re: Let’s Know Adi Guru Shankaracharya a little better

    That Brahm is inert and without any energies is refuted by sastras.

    Paräsya çaktir vividhaiva
    çrüyate
    ...
    sva-bhäviki,jnana,bala kriya ca.
    (Çvetäçvatara Upaniñad 6.8)


    SVABHAVIKI means 'BY NATURE/svabhava'.
    These energies are further explained in Vishnu purana.

    There should be no doubt that these three energies: Sandhini,samvit and Hladini are endorsed time and again by the vedas and confirmed by sastras like Srimad- Bhagavatam.

  9. #59

    Re: Let’s Know Adi Guru Shankaracharya a little better

    The Supreme Person is the basis of Nirguna Brahm

    "Yada parsyam pashyate rukma varnam..." Mundaka upanishad.3.1.3

    "When the seer sees the brilliant maker and lord (of the world) as the Person Who is the source of Brahm, then he is wise, and shaking off good and evil, he reaches the highest oneness, free from passions"


    Lord Sri Krsna confirms this very clearly in the Geeta:

    "Brahmano hi pratishtha ham...." -14.27 Bhagavad Geeta.

    I am the basis of Brahm.
    Last edited by ranjeetmore; 28 November 2009 at 01:16 PM.

  10. #60

    Re: Let’s Know Adi Guru Shankaracharya a little better

    further,we find that the personal Form of God is more attractive even to the liberated gyanis for His form is the mainstay of Hladini sakti.

    I don't want to sound offensive,but I dare say Personal form of God is much more blissful.This is subtly indicated in the vedas -

    "dve vava brahmano rupe murtancaiva amurtanca" - Brhadaranyako up.

    'murti'-the personal Form of God is given preference.

    "Raso vai saha" - taiitereya up.

    Saha indicates that "He(the Lord as a person) is Bliss."


    further the following verses are very important.

    "Mukta api leelaya vigrahan kritva Tvam bhajante."

    -Shaankar bhasya (Nrsingha Tapani upanishad )


    Even the muktas,who are liberated,come back to the universe and Worship You(Lord Nrsingha.)



    "Mukta api henam upasate." Sauparna sruti.


    Even the muktas come back and worship(upasate) the Supreme Lord.



    This most astounding phenomenon is mentioned in the Bhagavatam where the gynanis who are already liberated from maya,perform bhakti of Sri KRsna becoz it is exceedingly more blissful than bhramananda.Case in point being Sukadeva paramhamsa,the four kumaras,etc.

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