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Thread: Being - Entering Creation

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    Being - Entering Creation

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté

    I thought to spend some time on an item I have been thinking about as of late. The notion of initial creation, how beings come into existence, and how this is expressed in various śastra-s.

    Note this post is not to invoke one view over another, or suggest a right or wrong way of viewing the truth, but to look at things in a more robust manner. To support this view I took the liberty of posting this subject during a favorable astrological time¹.
    Why mention this? The yoga of sūrya-candra-budha inspires better communication and comprehension...I view it as most auspicious. May only good come from this post.

    Viewing Genesis 2 , Old Testament; A different look
    My offer is a different view on Adam and Eve, other then the conventional one people discuss. That is, how it can be viewed through the eyes of sanātana dharma wisdom. I think there is a deeper story to offer.

    The Lord formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Then the Lord made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

    The Lord formed...
    The Lord is prajāpati. Prajāpati is prajā + pati ; prajā = is to bring forth, or procreation , propagation , birth, offspring , children , family , race , posterity , descendants + pati ( sometimes written/sounded pathi) which is ' lord , master'; Hence prajāpati is Lord of birth, race, family. I have defined prajāpati as a noun. Yet what of another (parallel) view , of an action - prajāpati can be spanda, perhaps viśvavīrya¹; it can be the action or the universal urge of Brahmā to create - the creative impulse (as my teacher called it).

    This dust ...
    From my POV this is the sum of the pañca (5) mahābhūta-s ( great elements). Earth ~dust~ cannot occur unless the other 4 mahābhūta-s engage and are present in this tattva we call pṛthvī (some like to write pṛithvī) or earth element. That is, earth contains within it the sum total of vāyu + tejas + jala and ākāśa which provides it the space for it to exist. Hence earth is the ambassador/representative for these 5 mahābhūta-s. Hence our bodies are material and composed of these 5 elements ( tattva). The mahābhūta-s are under the jurisdiction of prajāpati. He uses them as tools to form the material creation of beings. Thus, this dust represents the collective whole of all the mahābhūta-s , which associate with the tanmātra-s , karmendriya-s, etc.

    and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life...
    This is life force; we know this as prāṇa. This prāṇa has multiple ( and significant ) meanings. One very significant meaning is found in the Chāndogyopaniṣhad, chapt 5.19.1 to 5.23 and its view of Vaiśvānara as cosmic prana.
    Yet the brahma sūtras too take us deeper; (śloka-s 1.1.22 & 1.1.23) informs us that ata eva prāṇaor for the same reason ( this refers to sūtra 22) ; prāṇaḥ -the breath also refers to brahman. So what is occurring? The Self , ātma is offered and installed into these beings via the breath (prāṇa) of prajāpati/brahmā. Hence a 'living being' is created.

    It is my understanding that ādām, in Hebrew means 'dust ,'man or mankind'. In saṃskṛt we have the following. Note I am going by sound quality (śabha) and not trying to align definitions.
    ādā - 'to give to one's self' , take , accept , receive from; to take off or out from. Now an interesting 4th root of this is to bind on , fasten to ( from dā). We have adam (ādām) that is given form ( dust = mahābhūta ) and life or prāṇa, yet is still bound or fastened to the Supreme. How so? That this creation is just and extension of the Supreme, the work of brahma ( as prajāpati).
    We will see in a future post how the upaniṣhad-s call out this 'entering'.

    the Lord made a woman from the rib ...
    Within this universe we find male and female qualities; energy/matter + Spirit. We may see it as puruṣa and prakṛti (saṃkayā view) ; some may see this as śiva and śakti or sun and moon. Others may prefer this as yin and yang (Tao view) . Yet we have these qualities of male/female and this is what the Lord created knowing the need for two to continue expansion and procreation.

    Eve is Ḥawwā, (as I understand it) in hebrew meaning 'living one'. In saṃskṛt, (by sound content again), I see hava. We know this as an an oblation , burnt offering , sacrifice ; if we look at hava as hāva it is defined as calling , alluring ; yet as a collective noun this means a group of coquettish ( flurting) gestures of women , beginning with līlā (play , sport , diversion , amusement , pastime).

    Perhaps this gives us a glimpes to the roll Eve plays in the story ; we know where Eve also attracts Adam to eat the fruit from the tree of life ? I have a different opinion on this as a metaphor of 'eating' or the senses being bound to the material part of life, but will leave that for another time.

    Another saṃskṛt view is simply havya - anything to be offered as an oblation , sacrificial gift or food . One could make an argument that Eve was an offering to Adam. Also havya means to call or invoke - as Eve was 'called' or brought out from Adam ( one of his ribs).

    I still do not see the deeper significance on this notion of Eve being born from the rib. The Hebrew word is tsela which can mean side, chamber, rib, or beam. Beam here is not a ray of light, but a construction beam as an I-beam. Many like the notion of 'side' as it invokes women being equal , on the side, of men vs. a subordinate role. I take no stand on this matter as my preview of this is spiritual and not one of politics.

    Do we see this notion of 2 in our literature (śastra) ?
    Lets take a look at several places for referral and insights… the 1st will be from praśna upaniṣad. Praśna is rooted ( √ ) in prach, which means a question. In this praśna upaniṣad 6 questions are posed to the master.

    This is a most profound and revealing upaniṣad when time is taken to study it. We will re-address this upaniṣad in future posts, but for now lets look at one focused śloka found in the 1st chapter ( some like to call praśna 1 for the 1st question that is asked); In the 3rd śloka the master ( called pippalāda) says to his 1st śiṣya's ( student) question, the following:
    Prajāpati was desirous of offspring. He underwent tapas; having undergone tapas He produced the couple rayi and prāṇa, expecting them to produce offspring of various kinds ( for Him).

    We once again are introduced to prajāpati and this notion of 2 ( a couple). Now for us to enjoy the maximum yield from this śloka we are compelled to spend time with rayi and prāṇa from this upaniṣad's point of view. We will do this in the next post, yet lets leave with a defintion.
    Let's continue to use the definition of prāṇa given as life-force/cosmic breath for the moment.
    And this rayi रयि is material(s), stuff; property , goods , possessions. Its most common use is treasure , wealth, yet in this upaniṣad it is offered as material. The upaniṣad says in the 5th śloka 'whatever is mūtraṃ¹ (material) and non-material is rayi'.

    This is why we need to go deeper into this section. Esoterically we can even look at this word just offered mūtraṃ. Using the word mū́traṃ with an alternative definition is 'to make water'. So how does this appliy to material? It is the notion that a fluid takes the shape of its container, from this a form is born, rūpa, to assume a form. So is the flexibility of this word to be mūtra ,'settled into any shape', or mū́tra 'to make water' , that applies to the container it assumes, giving form and hence a 'settled shape'.

    So why bring this up ? How does mū́tra, mūtra or mūtri even remotely apply to this conversation? It is the notion that the body 'takes shape' ; that the raw materials of the universe come together within a being and takes form - this is the connection.
    More on this overall subject as we continue ...

    praṇām

    words & references
    • prajā प्रजा- is to bring forth, or procreation , propagation , birth, offspring , children , family , race , posterity , descendants
      • pati पति note this word is rooted in pat; hence when uncompounded means husband ; In our application it means ' lord , master'; a master , owner , possessor , lord , ruler.
    • viśvavīrya is viśva whole , entire , all-pervading or all-containing , omnipresent + vīrya or strength , power , energy ; Combined it is the power and energy to create the whole.
    • prach प्रछ् to ask , question , interrogate ; to ask after inquire about
    • mūtraṃ is mūtri is any solid body or material form; mūtra is 'settled into any fixed shape'. yet mūtraṃ or mū́tra (prob. from √ mū = mīv) is the fluid secreted by the kidneys , urine, hence mūtraṃ (√ kṛ) 'to make water'
    • Astrologocial period
    • I offer this post when sūrya (kāraka¹ for ātman) enters that natural 8th house (or rāśi, an astrological sign) of the zodiac(some like to call this zodiac kālapuruṣa ).
      • This 8th house is vṛścika Scorpio co-owed by ketu ( mokṣa-karaka and also ;spiritual intellect , judgement & discernment ) and Mars (aṅgāraka)

      • The 8th is one of the most spiritual rāśi-s within the zodiac that deals with life, let alone esoteric subjects. The moon enters the bright half (śukla) of the month and brings more light.
      • Candra or moon is the kāraka of the mind); sūrya is kāraka of atman, and budha (Mercury) we see 'bud'. This 'bud' is to perceive, learn) all co-mingle in the 8th house here.
      • kāraka कारक- as a noun - 'instrumental in bringing about the action' ; in general , making or doing. In this conversation it is the grāhaka¹ ( the ~planet~) as one who produces, creates or influences a condition to unfold.
    Last edited by yajvan; 17 November 2009 at 12:54 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Thank you for the post! Some very interesting points you have made in this topic. I have never considered the Bible's explanation of creation through Sanatana Dharma interpretation. Already, the Sanskrit terms seem to lend it some weight, certainly it gives it a deeper perspective by asking why man was created from the earth (through your interpretation of the mahabhutas) and not just dust from the earth which I've always found very mythological and without much basis or reason for it other than the Bible's explanation of "from dust you came and to dust you will return".

    As for the Hebrew word tsela "beam" used for holding up a building, I would go a step further than just considering it the "side" or "rib" of man, and say it is a supporting beam of man, like a foundation for mankind. The wife and the mother are often considered the bedrock of the family and home in nearly all cultures around the world. That is why it is important that man considers woman his equal, and worthy of his respect and love.

    It is interesting stuff. I never thought to look into the deeper meanings behind the Hebrew definitions. Please continue your thoughts! I will certainly be following this thread.

    OM Shanti
    "Watch your thoughts, they become words.
    Watch your words, they become actions.
    Watch your actions, they become habits.
    Watch your habits, they become your character.
    Watch your character, it becomes your destiny."

    ॐ गं गणपतये नमः
    Om Gam Ganapataye namah

    लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु ।
    Lokaah SamastaaH Sukhino Bhavantu

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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté sunyata07

    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata07 View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,
    As for the Hebrew word tsela "beam" used for holding up a building, I would go a step further than just considering it the "side" or "rib" of man, and say it is a supporting beam of man, like a foundation for mankind. The wife and the mother are often considered the bedrock of the family and home in nearly all cultures around the world. That is why it is important that man considers woman his equal, and worthy of his respect and love.
    Yes, a very valid point. Within praśna upaniṣad both rayi and prāṇa where created simultaneously, suggesting equality between them both. As exemplified by the 1st answer from pippalāda-ji :
    Prajāpati was desirous of offspring. He underwent tapas; having undergone tapas He produced the couple rayi and prāṇa, expecting them to produce offspring of various kinds ( for Him).

    We will see how this story unfolds as this is only the 1st of 6 questions posed to pippalāda-ji. The method in the upaniṣad-s is to start with an entry level question to the master to set the foundation.
    So this was the first question asked. Just think how more deeply we can go if this is the 1st question.

    Note I did not offer the question that was asked to pippalāda-ji. It was asked by kabandhi, son of kātya ( we give names when known out of respect). He says, bhagavan ( a salutation of the highest respect for his master), whence ( from where) are all these creature born? From here the teaching begins.

    And what of pippalāda-ji? Who is he? No less then the śiṣya of Vyāsa-ji¹. According to one tradition, Vyāsa entrusted pippalāda-ji with propagating/managing the organization of the atharva-ved. His name pippalāda means eating the fruit of the Peepal tree. It is implying he is eating the sweet fruit ( the berry) of knowledge/wisdom - as he is the possessor of this sweet wisdom.

    This 1st question is considered a most inquisitive question of most people/seekers - 'how did this all come about? ' - a very good/logical first question don't you think? Yet there is an underlying question in the question. From where did this world ( universe) come from and / therefore from where did I come from ?

    Now if this (the gurukulam) was just an academic setting, then a battery of questions and answers could prevail. Yet this exchange is about understanding the underlying Reality of all , from where creation came (hence the subject of this total string). So the Q&A approach/method is quite profound and also teaches much.

    More as we continue.

    words
    • Veda Vyāsa वेद व्यास, the one who compiled the veda-s, or Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana ;
      • Kṛṣṇa= dark in complexion and Dvaipāyana suggests where Vyāsa was born:
      • dvi द्वि is 2 ; pāya पाय is water dvipa द्विप is drinking twice and dvīpa द्वीप an island , peninsula , sandbank.
      • Hence Vyāsa was born on an island where two rivers join or meet.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namast


    I wrote

    Yes, a very valid point. Within praśna upaniṣad both rayi and prāṇa where created simultaneously, suggesting equality between them both. As exemplified by the 1st answer from pippalāda-ji :
    Prajāpati was desirous of offspring. He underwent tapas; having undergone tapas He produced the couple rayi and prāṇa, expecting them to produce offspring of various kinds ( for Him).
    Would a reasonable question be, why doesn't prajāpati just create all at once? Why start with rayi and prāṇa (or adam and eve) ? Why not just in a whoosh, have all of the universe filled to the brim with beings and be finished?


    There are a few answers ... let me offer my POV. This Being, of Brahman, this creative impulse prajāpati is infinite and eternal. Where is the rush? Of what reason does this Being need to get anything done by Friday at 5 P.M. before the weekend arrives?


    As we look to creation we see building-blocks of intelligence - that is, systematic creation. The tattvas, particles, atoms, sub-structures of matter build to the size of galaxies . There is structure, there is creative intelligence behind this an approach. It is through this model that there's stability, yet within it the ability to change/evolve expand, exists. It is born of simplicity.
    Starting and building simply, as I see it. Hence prajāpati's approach is infinite and beyond mis-take, so the approach is structures within structures. That is, expansion is the natural course of events, for beings or galaxies.

    Rayi and prāṇa are natural modes of nature - and intelligent within themselves for evolution and growth to occur. So , if we were discussing saṃkhyā ( some prefer saṇkhyā ) philosophy this rayi and prāṇa may be viewed as prakṛti and puruṣa , or in Tao this would be yin and yang, or the Abramic view adam and eve.

    There are 3 ingredients - the two we know prakṛti and puruṣa, rayi and prāṇa , etc. yet the third is the foundation , that of sattā, existence itself. Without existence ( Brahman) from what can things stand on ? This is why ākāśa is an epithet of Brahman. From where can things exist if there is no space for it to exist in? It is a fundamental, simple requirement: Space-ākāśa, sattā-Brahman.

    praṇām

    words
    sattā सत्ता - existence , being
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    Namaste Yajvan,

    Why do you and others (on this forum and elsewhere) give credence to the bible and abrahamic faiths? To interpret biblical passages and messages through the lens of Sanatana Dharma is utterly pointless and only will give those anti-Hindus more reason to attack India and consequently SD.

    I am not trying to instigate you into an argument, however, I find it highly irksome that several people, in a HINDU FORUM, (for the short while I've been a member) try and extrapolate some philosophical construct in the abrahamic faiths, whether it is the torah, bible, and/or quran.


    If the christians themselves cannot see an iota of philosophy in their ridiculous desert cult (christianity), why are we (and I consider you a Hindu although you are a westerner) trying to claim that there is some deeper meaning in their cult or parable? Of course, this does NOT threaten SD in any way whatsoever, it is just that the purpose of such threads and discussions is analogous to looking for water with a bucket filled to the brim! It is ultimately an insult to Hindus, I believe, in trying to legitimize and subsequently philosophize the three desert cults.

    Again, I do not wish to start an argument but you should be aware that such threads and topics are not conducive to discussion and exegesis of Dharma. If I may boldly state, I am sure many HINDUS will agree with me regarding this.

    Namaskar.
    Last edited by satay; 24 November 2009 at 09:38 AM.

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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namast TTA,


    I respect your views , yet I see it differently.
    you mention
    Again, I do not wish to start an argument
    yes, thank you.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    hari o
    ~~~~~~~

    namast
    And what of pippalāda-ji? Who is he? No less then the śiṣya of Vyāsa-ji. According to one tradition, Vyāsa entrusted pippalāda-ji with propagating/managing the organization of the atharva-ved. His name pippalāda means eating the fruit of the Peepal tree. It is implying he is eating the sweet fruit ( the berry) of knowledge/wisdom - as he is the possessor of this sweet wisdom.

    This 1st question is considered a most inquisitive question of most people/seekers - 'how did this all come about? ' - a very good/logical first question don't you think? Yet there is an underlying question in the question. From where did this world ( universe) come from and / therefore from where did I come from ?

    Recall this string is all about manifestation , some say creation, others would say emanation (sṛj - to emit , let go ) of how all 'this' comes from 'That'.

    Pippalāda-ji informs us of a great insight.This occurs in the praśna upaniṣad as has been mentioned as a key resource for this string.
    We know praśna is rooted ( √ ) in prach, which means a question. In this praśna upaniṣad 6 questions are posed to the master.

    This post offers a few ideas that come from the 6th question. In a nutshell the student asks the teacher, does this wholeness of Being
    have any parts or kalā ? It is said this way - do you know the puruṣa of sixteen kakā-s?

    The answer gives us an insight many pass up - and this is worthy of a few posts and discussion for those that are interested.

    Pippalāda-ji answers thus ( in the 6th chapter, 2nd śloka) : here indeed, within the body O' dear, is that puruṣa. From Him arise these 16 kalā-s.

    Now what I think useful to pursue is a definition of puruṣa, kalā-s, etc. but before doing this, lets look at one salient, yet subtle notion that is in this śloka, which makes it worthy to ponder.

    When we hear 'here indeed within the body' - our minds ( at least mine) registers the following: 'Oh yes- this puruṣa that is within me - yes this is easy to comprehend'. Yet a reminder, in this case from svāmī muni nārāyaa prāsad, brings the deeper meaning.

    We need to look at some of the words in the śloka and their definitions to ferret out the greater meaning; this will allow us to answer the 16 kalā-s question with better insight.

    The śloka says ihaivāntaḥ śarīre. That is, iha + eva + antaḥ śarīre. Let's work backwards on these words.
    • śarīre = śarīra. We know this word to mean the body or bodily frame. Yet this word has more significant meaning from its component śarī. The root of this word śarī is śrī, to destroy. Hence when we find it in śarīra, it then gives us the definition of that which is easily destroyed, some say that which is easily dissolved. We take note that our body is easily destroyed, yet the definition does not only hold to one's body or frame ( or our components).
    • antaḥ - has a few definitions. It means inner , inner part, inside. It also means end, conclusion, final, boundary, conclusion.
    • eva - indeed , truly , really . It is used to strenghen an idea expressed, that same why we may say indeed! really!
    • iha - means here, in this place; in this word; now at this time.
    Putting the phrase together, (my translation - any blemish is of my authorship), it says, here indeed in this whole world, this body ( which is easliy destroyed) is that puruṣa.
    Svāmī muni nārāyaa prāsad's translation as mentioned ( so you can compare and contrast) reads thus: Here indeed, within the body, O dear, is that puruṣa. From Him arise these 16 kalā-s.

    When 'whole world' is used in the upaniṣads it is the saṃketa ( symbol, hint ) meaning the whole universe. Some say the 3 worlds. Yet this tells us, puruṣa is far more then just being inside of us as jiva or atma or soul. It is the core and origin of all that is.

    Now we are prepared a bit more to discuss the 16 kalā-s as the manifestation/emanation of puruṣa.
    That this universe is no different or other then the expression/extention of puruṣa.

    Lets address more of this in the next post.

    praām

    words
    • kalā
      • small part of anything , any single part or portion of a whole ; a sixteenth part ; This definition is what we will use here for this post.
      • a digit or one-sixteenth of the moon's diameter
      • in jyotish it can be considered the sixtieth part of one-thirtieth of a zodiacal sign , a minute of a degree
      • Here is a view one does not see every day as an atom . There are 3,015 kalās or atoms in every one of the six dhātus , not counting the rasa , therefore in all 18,090
    • śrī has several definitions; We're used to seeing this śrī meaning splendid , radiant , beautifying , adorning ; diffusing light or radiance , splendid , radiant , beautifying , adorning ; The word śrī is frequently used as an honorific prefix= sacred, or holy. Yet it also means to mix , mingle , cook, to burn , flame , diffuse , and hhence the notion of destory comes into being.
    Last edited by yajvan; 01 March 2010 at 10:42 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    kalā
    • small part of anything , any single part or portion of a whole ; a sixteenth part ; This definition is what we will use here for this post.
    • a digit or one-sixteenth of the moon's diameter
    • in jyotish it can be considered the sixtieth part of one-thirtieth of a zodiacal sign , a minute of a degree
    • Here is a view one does not see every day as an atom . There are 3,015 kalās or atoms in every one of the six dhātus , not counting the rasa , therefore in all 18,090
    • kalā can also be low , soft as a tone; emitting a soft tone
    This kalā is quite interesting if one pauses to reflect. I will call out the 16 kalā-s offered in the praśna upaniṣad by Pippalāda-ji to his 6 students in a moment. Hence a better appreciation of kalā may be worthy of merit to review.

    Consider kalā as ka+lā .This ka is considered a noun of prajāpati , which fits nicely into the praśna upaniṣad as it discusses creation.
    We can also note that ka is the the first consonant of the saṃskṛt alphabet. Consonants are owned by śakti. It is the energy (śakti) portion of śiva that brings forth this creation, that is the connection here.

    Yet there is another view ( not opposed just another POV) on this ka+lā that suggests ka = beginning + lā = end. So in one word there is the beginning and end. A beautiful view on what a moment is. Recall one definition of kalā is any small part. This beginning + end suggests the beginning IS the end, that is how small/fraction of time or of a thing one can consider ( brilliant , no?).

    Lets consider another view ; in kaśmīr śaivism¹ , this creation is none other then śiva. This is not an unusual view with the Śaiva schools of thinking. If we considered the notion of sakalā it is a word that suggest the whole and the parts simultaneously as śiva is the whole and the parts together. The fullness of brahman, the Absolute, and the fullness of the relative field of life. This is the wholeness , not two. We can note this sakala is sa + kalā. Sa is a noun for śiva ( and viṣṇu) and kalā is what we have been discussing , parts.

    Another view is niṣkala, again, another name for śiva. This niṣkala is defined as without parts, and we are back to the notion of wholeness
    with parts (sakalā) and without parts (niṣkala) .

    For the astute, familiar with various mantra's, this ka+lā is an integral part of the pañcadaśi (15 syllable) mantra called sri vidya. When the 16th syllable is added it becomes the ṣoḍaśi mantra of sundari Herself. This then, 16 is considered ṣoḍaśi = kalā = Mother Divine, some wish to call tripurasundari. This tri =3 and we are calling out 3 in 1 , kāmeśvara, lalitā, and sundari.

    Lets call out 16 kalā-s offered in the praśna upaniṣad by Pippalāda-ji to his 6 students . The 4th sloka of the 6th chapter says,

    He (puruṣa) ~created~ ; the word used in the śloka is asṛjata. Recall sṛj is to to emit , let go, pour forth , shed , cause to flow ; jāta is born , brought into existence ( as ja is birth, produced or caused by ) . But what of this a that starts the word asṛjata? With investigation we must take is as 'as' which is defined as to take place, to happen, to turn out. Then this word overall is quite fitting as I see it. Asṛjata is then the emission (sṛj ) brought into existence ( jāta ) that took place (as). And what was emitted? Here is the 16 kalā-s brought forth:

    • prāṇa; from prāṇa came -->
      • śrāddha defined as faith or true, loyal
      • kha or vacuity , empty space , air , ether , sky ; another name for ākāśa
      • vāyu or air, gas, wind - some say vital air
      • jyotis or fire, some perfer light as the specific name
      • āpas or water; some say āpa - this is from āp to occupy, pervade as does water it spreads and pervades
      • pṛthvī - we know as earth, solid
      • indriya - the sense organs; this could include both the organs of perception and the organs of action
      • manas - mind . It is my assessment this means mind, intellect and ego facilities
      • and anna - food
    • anna - from food came -->
      • vīrya - vigour , virility , vitality
      • mantra - hymns in the broadest sense; sacrificial formula; that portion of the ved which contains the texts called ṛc (some prefer ṛk or ṛig), yajus or sāman ved.
      • karma - actions
      • loka - can be defined as divisions, levels of existence. Lets go a little wider: 3 lokas are commonly called out - heaven , earth , and the atmosphere or lower regions. A fuller classification gives 7 worlds as bhū-loka or the earth; bhuvar-loka or the space between the earth and sun inhabited by munis , siddhas and the like; svarloka or indra's heaven above the sun or between it and the polar star; maharloka , a region above the polar star and inhabited by bhṛgu and other saints; janarloka, inhabited by brahmā's son sanat-kumāra ; tapar-loka , inhabited by deified vairāgins ; finally satya-loka some call brahma-loka ,the abode of brahmā the Creator.
        • loka also has another meaning here as it is defined as the faculty of seeing , sight . So, all that can be seen. We can used ~seen~ as comprehended. So, loka takes on a huge vista of ideas.
      • lokeṣa is loka +eṣa - it is considered seeking within the worlds or planes of existence . I am not clear on this notion and continue to look for a more comprehensive description on this.
      • nāma - names. Why names? It is every thing that can be seen and unseen, can be given a name. Knowledge and mantra are transmited by names. Hense the robustness of nāma.
    praām
    Last edited by yajvan; 01 March 2010 at 09:57 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #9
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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    From my POV this is the sum of the paca (5) mah[/SIZE]ābhūta-s ( great elements). Earth ~dust~ cannot occur unless the other 4 mahābhūta-s engage and are present in this tattva we call pṛthvī (some like to write pṛithvī) or earth element. That is, earth contains within it the sum total of vāyu + tejas + jala and ākāśa which provides it the space for it to exist. Hence earth is the ambassador/representative for these 5 mahābhūta-s. Hence our bodies are material and composed of these 5 elements ( tattva). The mahābhūta-s are under the jurisdiction of prajāpati. He uses them as tools to form the material creation of beings. Thus, this dust represents the collective whole of all the mahābhūta-s , which associate with the tanmātra-s[SIZE=3] , karmendriya-s, etc.
    Earth(pruthvi) is not dust; it is more than that.

    The order of creation as explained in TAITTIRIYA UPANISAD is as follows..

    From atman did space come into being; from space, air; from air, fire; from fire, the waters, from the waters, the EARTH;(these are the Pancha Bhutas)
    And then
    from the earth, plants; from plants, food; and from food, man

    nowhere it is mentioned in any sastras that Dust is the basis/raw material for creation.

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    Re: Being - Entering Creation

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by proudhindu View Post
    Earth(pruthvi) is not dust; it is more than that.

    nowhere it is mentioned in any sastras that Dust is the basis/raw material for creation.
    Yes, I agree.... ~dust~ was offered as an example . Perhaps better examples are in order.
    Yet that said, ~dust ~ is within the context of the post, comparing contrasting Adam and Eve through the eyes of sanātana dharma.

    The Lord formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Then the Lord made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

    The Lord formed...

    The Lord is prajāpati. Prajāpati is prajā + pati ; prajā = is to bring forth, or procreation , propagation , birth, offspring , children , family , race , posterity , descendants + pati ( sometimes written/sounded pathi) which is ' lord , master'; Hence prajāpati is Lord of birth, race, family. I have defined prajāpati as a noun. Yet what of another (parallel) view , of an action - prajāpati can be spanda, perhaps viśvavīrya¹; it can be the action or the universal urge of Brahmā to create - the creative impulse (as my teacher called it).





    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 03 March 2010 at 09:51 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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