General question on the Gita

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

Namaste,

Thanks for all the above replies to my post. However I would further like to know how I can derive maximum benefit by reading this particular chapter on Vishwarupa Darshana Yoga. Also, just by reading this chapter can I derive benefit as it is only a description of the cosmic form.

Thanks and Regards

Yes there would be benefit in reading any chapter of Bhagvat Gita.

Glories or significant of chapter 11 vishwarup darshan yog we may see through Arjun�s eyes.

Like him we hear a lot of good powerful arguments and become in awe momentarily yet we are not fully convinced so we seek assurance. Arjun having accepted Krishna as supreme he wanted to see him in full glories, for that he needed divine vision and without Gods grace that was not possible.

And what did he see? Arjun was awe stuck seeing the lord in his glorious beautiful as well as fierce all devouring form, he was gladden as well as fearful not composed.

Only seeing him back in human like form he said thus;
arjuna uvaca
drstvedam manusam rupam
tava saumyam janardana
idanim asmi samvrttah
sa-cetah prakrtim gatah

When Arjuna thus saw Krsna in His original form, he said: Seeing this humanlike form, so very beautiful, my mind is now pacified and I am restored to my original nature.(11.51)

The lessons I learned from chapter 11,is to be convinced, to see his grace, to see his opulence and greatness but above all his love.

In the comfort of our home we are happy playing with father who is loving, caring and gentle, like Arjun we would also be perplexed if we hear that the same father could be a supreme judge who is dishing out judgement rewarding or punishing.

We would be inclined to see that father at work but we will soon long to see him at home.

Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

hi,
According to me,everyone who traces the right path of satya,will realise the vishwarupa at some point.

RV 8.096.12 Perform those rites of yours that Indra may accept them; praise him to whom praise belongs, worship him with your service; O priest, adorn thyself, grieve not (for poverty); let Indra hear your praise, may he speedily give much wealth.

8.096.13 The swift-moving Kr.s.n.a with ten thousand (demons) stood on the Am.s'umati_; by his might Indra caught him snorting (in the water); he, benevolent to man, smote his malicious (bands).

8.096.14 "I have seen the swift-moving (asura) lurking in an inaccessible place, in the depths of the river Am.s'umati_, (I have seen) Kr.s.n.a standing there as (the sun) in a cloud; I appeal to you, showerers; conquer him in battle". Though the Asura thinks he is concealing himself, he is seen as clearly by Indra as the sun is behind a cloud.

8.096.15 Then the swift-moving one (Krishna), shining forth assumed his own body by the Am.s'umati_, and Indra with Br.haspati as his ally smote the godless hosts as they drew near.

8.096.16 As soon as you were born, Indra, you were an enemy to those seven who had no enemy; you recovered the heavens and earth when concealed (in darkness); you cause joy to the mighty worlds.

Of course everyone will experience, since it is Lord Indra, the Mukhya prAna who is both the sustainer and desroyer of the seven that bind awareness (consciousness) within the limits of sensual perception called the BODY. The seven, by the power of their sensual perception cover up the truth, creating the darkness of Shushupti -- which is the fullness without boundary and which is the birth and the death of all. It is Sarvesvara.

Stripped of the covering agents, the dark shushupti is revealed as brightness of thousand suns, called Bhargo-Rudra in the Vedas. Beyond, tamasa is the Lord of tamasa who never slumbers.

Svet. U. 6.7
tamiishvaraaNaaM paramaM maheshvara.n
ta.n devataanaaM parama.n cha daivatam.h .
patiM patiinaaM paramaM parastaad.h\-
vidaama devaM bhuvaneshamiiDyam.h .. 7..

Om Namah Shivaya

[yajvan]

hari oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté amith vikram,

hi,
For someone who starts a spiritual journey,or who reads the gita for the first time or who has no knowledge of the ONE AND ONLY ONE matter,most of the chapters in the gita will be useless.I am stating this based on my own experience.

I see your point. It is like a child walking into a library with no guidance. Where does s/he begin? Which row to start in? What is best?

Yet there is another point of view too on this matter. Kṛṣṇa tells us ( Bhāgavad gītā, chapt 2, 46th śloka) :
to the enlightened brahmin all the veda-s are of no more
use then is a small well in a place flooded with water
on every side.

So , we have the full spectrum of possibilities for the individual; on one end, no light and in the dark, and on the other full of light. But what is common to both sides? And something that is useless becomes use-full, how does that occur?

Do you have any thoughts or POV on this matter?

praṇām

[atanu]

hari oṁ
~~~~~
Namast� amith vikram,

I see your point. It is like a child walking into a library with no guidance. Where does s/he begin? Which row to start in? What is best?

Yet there is another point of view too on this matter. Kṛṣṇa tells us ( Bhāgavad gītā, chapt 2, 46th śloka) :
to the enlightened brahmin all the veda-s are of no more
use then is a small well in a place flooded with water
on every side.

praṇām

Pranam,

Guru Ramana says that in a lighted room a candle light is not required. A candle is also not required by a person who has not seen light and does not want to see. A candle is required by one who seeks light yet does not know how and where.

Om Namah Shivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste,

Excellent explanations Atanu et. al.

The VishwarUpa darshana granted to Arjuna by Krishna signifies Advaita Vedanta for me. Perhaps it is a crude translation, but I feel that by showing the expanse of creation (all beings animate and otherwise) within that one reality is really the final "proof" of Advaita IMO.

Of course, Vaishnavas might be angry at my interpretation but I do not ask everyone to adopt it for it is merely my level of understanding for this chapter.

Namaskar.

[amith vikram]

Namaste Amith,

I whole heartedly agree with your experience, which is also a shruti in Rig Veda and in Upanishad. It is said that without knowing the imperishable, the Vedas and the scriptures are not of much use. In fact, scriptures create more confusion, if one attempts to understand the rik etc. from the perspective of a discretized fragmented vision. And then smriti?? Smriti readers do not accept that the Visvarupa (the world soul) is already depicted in Yajur Veda in Rudra Trishati etc. The universality is thus lost, as if Rudra is one and Krishna is another. And interpretations by non-hindus???

Svet. U.

IV-8: Of what avail are the scriptures (vedas) to him who does not know that indestructible, highest Ethereal Being, in whom the gods and the Vedas reside ? Only those who know That are satisfied.
IV-9: The Lord of Maya projects the Vedas, sacrifices, spiritual practices, past and future, religious observances, all that the Vedas declare, and the whole world including ourselves. The other, again, is bound by Maya in this.

For those who know not Mahesvara (visvarupa), the scriptures become source of another kind of bondage.

Actually, Asat never was, never is, and never can be. Since asat is Asat (Non-Existent). What other is perceived as different from Sat (Brahman/Atman) is merely mithya and not the Asat.

BG 2.16 Naasato vidyate bhaavo naabhaavo vidyate satah;

However, although Shri Krishna says: "I am that unborn", He also says "I am Sat and Asat".

7.25 Naaham prakaashah sarvasya yogamaayaasamaavritah;
Moodho�yam naabhijaanaati loko maamajamavyayam.

7.25. I am not manifest to all (as I am), being veiled by the Yoga Maya. This deluded world does not know Me, the unborn and imperishable.

9.19 Tapaamyahamaham varsham nigrihnaamyutsrijaami cha;
Amritam chaiva mrityushcha sadasacchaahamarjuna.

9.19. (As the sun) I give heat; I withhold and send forth the rain; I am immortality and also death, existence and non-existence, O Arjuna!

So, there is need to know the akshara Sat, stripped of asat. And that I understand and believe is depicted in the Rig Veda:

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...&postcount=305

Om Namah Shivaya

hi atanu,
I didnt say we need to know the akshara sat!i only stated that,there are SAT and ASAT.agreed,ASAT was never there.but from an ignorant point of view(like me),we should first discriminate betwn sat and asat.
sat can never be known,because we all know there can be no sat until there is a knower.
my view was that,all the things which has form and gunas are but non-permanant and with impurities(ahankaara).yajnavalkya has stated in bri.up.that if someone tries to find that SAT,he will go on in an infinite loop.

[amith vikram]

Of course everyone will experience, since it is Lord Indra, the Mukhya prAna who is both the sustainer and desroyer of the seven that bind awareness (consciousness) within the limits of sensual perception called the BODY. The seven, by the power of their sensual perception cover up the truth, creating the darkness of Shushupti -- which is the fullness without boundary and which is the birth and the death of all. It is Sarvesvara.

Stripped of the covering agents, the dark shushupti is revealed as brightness of thousand suns, called Bhargo-Rudra in the Vedas. Beyond, tamasa is the Lord of tamasa who never slumbers.

Svet. U. 6.7
tamiishvaraaNaaM paramaM maheshvara.n
ta.n devataanaaM parama.n cha daivatam.h .
patiM patiinaaM paramaM parastaad.h\-
vidaama devaM bhuvaneshamiiDyam.h .. 7..

Om Namah Shivaya

MY IDEA OF VISHWARUP:
we know vishnu is identical with the brahman.i percieved vishnu as my bhagavan.but we know the same vishnu is also shiv shankar and brahma and the prajapati and the deva,asura,manav and all other animals which fly,which sprout,and also that which has no life.so basically i am vishnu.but the only flaw is that,'I' am not vishnu.amith-ahankaar=vishnu.but vishnu as satya narayan should be meditated upon,for it is the purest form of brahman.
i dont know much,please correct if i am wrong

[amith vikram]

hari oṁ
~~~~~

Namast� amith vikram,



I see your point. It is like a child walking into a library with no guidance. Where does s/he begin? Which row to start in? What is best?

Yet there is another point of view too on this matter. Kṛṣṇa tells us ( Bhāgavad gītā, chapt 2, 46th śloka) :
to the enlightened brahmin all the veda-s are of no more
use then is a small well in a place flooded with water
on every side.

So , we have the full spectrum of possibilities for the individual; on one end, no light and in the dark, and on the other full of light. But what is common to both sides? And something that is useless becomes use-full, how does that occur?

Do you have any thoughts or POV on this matter?

praṇām

namaste yajvan,
you said it.i am not an enlightened brahmin.
all the dharm and karm stated in the vedas should be done without passion for results.only that is the real karm.as for now,the gita/scriptures are the guiding light to me.

[atanu]

hi atanu,
I didnt say we need to know the akshara sat!i only stated that,there are SAT and ASAT.agreed,ASAT was never there.but from an ignorant point of view(like me),we should first discriminate betwn sat and asat.
sat can never be known,because we all know there can be no sat until there is a knower.
my view was that,all the things which has form and gunas are but non-permanant and with impurities(ahankaara).yajnavalkya has stated in bri.up.that if someone tries to find that SAT,he will go on in an infinite loop.

Namaste vikram,

You bring in valuable points. That 'Sat cannot be known' is itself a knowledge which must be known by various practices etc., starting with subheccha to know the truth, followed by discrimination. Lord Krishna indeed teaches that the Self within must be known. Brihadaraynaka teaches 'Neti-Neti'. Aitereya teaches "Who Am I?"

Om Namah Shivaya

[atanu]

MY IDEA OF VISHWARUP:
we know vishnu is identical with the brahman.-----so basically i am vishnu.but the only flaw is that,'I' am not vishnu.amith-ahankaar=vishnu.-----
i dont know much,please correct if i am wrong

Namaste amith,

You indeed know much. I have only one point. The way you apply "i am vishnu. but the only flaw is that,'I' am not vishnu.amith-ahankaar=vishnu", the same may apply to our (everyones) perception of vishnu (or shiva).

I hope, I am clear.

Om Namah Shivaya