Manifestation as "Seed" in Brahman (??)

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste,

In Yoga VasiSTa, it is written that the idea that all of creation as a 'seed' in Brahman is a ridiculous thought and wrong.

The potential state of the universe (or multiverse actually) perennially exists in this seed and manifests when that initial memory (Brahma) arises; or so I thought. This is analogous to the seed of a tree where the potentiality of the full grown tree always exists in the seed and when it sprouts, the tree is 'created'.

VasiSTa states that since creation is non-different than Brahman (according to Advaita Vedanta), "the fundamental cause itself has to be seen as the very nature of the Supreme Being...There is no cause and effect relationship between the Supreme Being and the universe". (ch. 4, v.2,3)

What? Yoga VasiSTa is driving me nuts (or should I say I am driving myself nuts?). It claims the universe can be taken as 'real or unreal'!! o_O

What do you make of the above quote from YV?

Namaskar.

[sanjaya]

Do you know if there is a text of the Yoga VasiSTa online? I would be interested to read more of this chapter before I even attempt to understand this quote.

For what it's worth, modern cosmology tells us that the universe exists in its current state because of quantum fluctuations that were essentially expanded when the universe experienced rapid inflation in its first second of existence. In this way, microscopic, random quantum effects had a very noticable effect on the real world. This, I suppose, might explain how God can create a universe without the use of any cause and effect relationship. But again, I don't claim to have a very good understanding of this text.

[atanu]

Do you know if there is a text of the Yoga VasiSTa online? I would be interested to read more of this chapter before I even attempt to understand this quote.

For what it's worth, modern cosmology tells us that the universe exists in its current state because of quantum fluctuations that were essentially expanded when the universe experienced rapid inflation in its first second of existence. In this way, microscopic, random quantum effects had a very noticable effect on the real world. This, I suppose, might explain how God can create a universe without the use of any cause and effect relationship. But again, I don't claim to have a very good understanding of this text.

namaste Sanjaya.

A link was provided by Znanna sometime back in a thread.

Om

[atanu]

Namaste,

In Yoga VasiSTa, it is written that the idea that all of creation as a 'seed' in Brahman is a ridiculous thought and wrong.

The potential state of the universe (or multiverse actually) perennially exists in this seed and manifests when that initial memory (Brahma) arises; or so I thought. This is analogous to the seed of a tree where the potentiality of the full grown tree always exists in the seed and when it sprouts, the tree is 'created'.

VasiSTa states that since creation is non-different than Brahman (according to Advaita Vedanta), "the fundamental cause itself has to be seen as the very nature of the Supreme Being...There is no cause and effect relationship between the Supreme Being and the universe". (ch. 4, v.2,3)

What? Yoga VasiSTa is driving me nuts (or should I say I am driving myself nuts?). It claims the universe can be taken as 'real or unreal'!! o_O

What do you make of the above quote from YV?

Namaskar.

Namaste TTA,

Turiya-Self Brahman has no seed. Seed is planted in Pragnya Ghana-Shushupti. The seeds sprout as subtle light forms and names in Dream-Hirayangarbha and as less subtle names and forms in waking-agnivaisvanaro.

The folowing is fundamental:

There is no cause and effect relationship between the Supreme Being and the universe". (ch. 4, v.2,3).

An example of Kaktaliya is repeated several times in Yoga Vasista to clarify the idea.

Om Namah Shivaya

[atanu]

Namaste,

What? Yoga VasiSTa is driving me nuts (or should I say I am driving myself nuts?). It claims the universe can be taken as 'real or unreal'!! o_O

What do you make of the above quote from YV?

Namaskar.

Mandukya Upanishad also teaches the same. The akshara may by seen as one indivisible Om or it can be seen as three states of A, U, and M. It is a choice for the jnanis but Varuna's noose for the ignorant.

Om

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

There is no cause and effect relationship between the Supreme Being and the universe". (ch. 4, v.2,3).

An example of Kaktaliya is repeated several times in Yoga Vasista to clarify the idea. Om Namah Shivaya

What is this kāka atanu is offering?

In the Yoga Vāsiṣṭa¹ it talks of kākatālīya¹ on many occasions. That kākatālīya is the story of the crow and the palm tree. It goes like this:
A crow alights (lands) on the top of a coconut palm tree. Upon its touch-down at the top, at that very moment, a ripe coconut detaches from its branch and falls to the ground. Two mutually exclusive events ( ~unrelated~) occur. An observer views this event in the same space and time and sees a relationship, yet in truth there was none. That is both events were independent of each other.

praṇām


words

• Vāsiṣṭa ( also written vāśiṣṭha) means owning or belong ing to the sage vasiṣṭha
• kākatālīya काकतालीय is kāka ( a crow) + tālī ( a tree) +ya (joining) : after the manner of the crow and the palm-fruit

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste Sanjaya,

I am not aware of an online version of Yoga VasiSTa but I'm sure Google Books will have it in the near future.

I picked up an English translation at the local Barnes & Noble a while ago for about $45. I highly recommend purchasing it as it is supposed to represent the pinnacle of Advaita philosophy.

There have been several occasions, while reading YV, where I've felt the total insignificance of life, society, and existence as a whole. It has brought me to tears on a few but I feel that in order to function "normally" in society, it is best to 'ignore' some of these teachings contained within YV. It is stated somewhere that Yoga VasiSTa is NOT recommended for people just learning Vedanta and is only for the experienced and mature mind. Perhaps that is why I felt the despondency I did because I have not had the opportunity to really delve in and study the Vedas in depth; only a few Upanishads and verses here and there.

By the way, are you by any chance in the field of cosmology or astronomy? Astronomy, and Physics in particular, are what originally peeked my interest in Vedanta. It was like a flower that blossomed when I read certain Upanishads that coincide (or should I say have foretold) with what science states regarding the nature of reality!

Namaskar.

Do you know if there is a text of the Yoga VasiSTa online? I would be interested to read more of this chapter before I even attempt to understand this quote.

For what it's worth, modern cosmology tells us that the universe exists in its current state because of quantum fluctuations that were essentially expanded when the universe experienced rapid inflation in its first second of existence. In this way, microscopic, random quantum effects had a very noticable effect on the real world. This, I suppose, might explain how God can create a universe without the use of any cause and effect relationship. But again, I don't claim to have a very good understanding of this text.

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste Atanu,

This concept of NO CAUSE is really confusing me.

I always thought that "creation" was an impulse by Brahman itself; like the first "desire" that brought forth this manifestation. (?) Even in YV, it states that Brahma (Creator) is the first memory from which other thoughts and memories arise thereby giving rise to what we call 'creation' and the universe. Saying there is "NO CAUSE" means that Brahma himself is mithya! When we transcend the 7 lokas I thought we reside in Brahma-loka which is not destroyed in the maha-pralaya (great cosmic dissolution)?

How can this "infinite consciousness" (as VasiSTa calls it) be "reflected" to form creation when there is no reflection to begin with (cause)?

Namaskar.

Namaste TTA,

Turiya-Self Brahman has no seed. Seed is planted in Pragnya Ghana-Shushupti. The seeds sprout as subtle light forms and names in Dream-Hirayangarbha and as less subtle names and forms in waking-agnivaisvanaro.

The folowing is fundamental:

There is no cause and effect relationship between the Supreme Being and the universe". (ch. 4, v.2,3).

An example of Kaktaliya is repeated several times in Yoga Vasista to clarify the idea.

Om Namah Shivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste Yajvan,

Thanks for the explanation of the kAkatAlIya.

One gripe with that analogy VasiSTa uses is, how can there NOT be a relationship between the two? The weight of the bird is the final step required for the coconut to unhinge and fall isn't it?

Perhaps they are unrelated but the probability of them being connected is too strong IMO. Maybe that is why MAYA is so powerful and we cannot perceive the Truth easily!

What are your thoughts on this "no cause" business? It is really swirling in my brain like a marble in a glass bowl. LOL..

Namaskar.

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namast�



What is this kāka atanu is offering?

In the Yoga Vāsiṣṭa� it talks of kākatālīya� on many occasions. That kākatālīya is the story of the crow and the palm tree. It goes like this:
A crow alights (lands) on the top of a coconut palm tree. Upon its touch-down at the top, at that very moment, a ripe coconut detaches from its branch and falls to the ground. Two mutually exclusive events ( ~unrelated~) occur. An observer views this event in the same space and time and sees a relationship, yet in truth there was none. That is both events were independent of each other.

praṇām


words

• Vāsiṣṭa ( also written vāśiṣṭha) means owning or belong ing to the sage vasiṣṭha
• kākatālīya काकतालीय is kāka ( a crow) + tālī ( a tree) +ya (joining) : after the manner of the crow and the palm-fruit

[Ekanta]

Hi... I found this a bit useful myself:

Brahma sutra, chapter 2, section 1, topic 11: need of motive
32. (Brahman is) not the cause, owing to the need of some motive (for creation).
33. But (creation for Brahman is) a mere pastime like what is seen in the world.
(Sivananda translation)