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Thread: Cidabhasa

  1. #11
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    Re: Cidabhasa

    The following explanation is cited from Panchadasi, so that chidabhasa is not confused with kutastha. The following is for record and completeness of the discussion only.

    Jiva and Kutashtha (verses 18-56) from Panchadasi.

    The one reality is described as if having a fourfold division as Kutashtha, Brahman, jiva and Ishvara, as space contained in a jar, the universal space, and space reflected in water in a jar, and space reflected in clouds. Consciousness, which is unchangeable, and seen as conditioned by gross and subtle bodies on which they are superimposed, is called Kutashtha (My Note: For example when one indivisible consciousness is seen as divided in many bodies. Though the consciousness has not changed but this apparent enclosed consciousness within the Heart is Kutastha, which is pure). Intellect is superimposed on the Kutashtha and reflects it (this is the AbhAsa). This reflection of intellect is animated by vitality and is called jiva. Jiva is subject to transmigration. Kutashtha is obscured by jiva, as space reflected in water in the pot obscures akasha in a pot. This is called superimposition. Under this delusion of superimposition jiva does not understand it is kutashtha and not jiva. Jiva begins to feel that it exists as intelligence, freedom, bliss, and so on. Conversely, the changing characters of the Jiva, such as pain, pleasure, etc., are superimposed on the Kutastha, and one begins to feel that one really has these experiences. Thus the Jiva, getting involved with itself and its activities, forgets its own source, and does not know it in its daily life. This non-discrimination does not have a beginning and is known as primal nescience.

    This nescience or avidya, has two functions - avarana (concealing) and vikshepa (projecting) power. Avarana shakti creates understanding "Kutashta does not shine or exist" - understanding of an unwise man. Existence of such misunderstanding is evident, although it does not stand scrutinity of logic. Existence of Avidya is a mystery which is experienced by everyone, but none can investigate its nature, because investigation is carried on by the intellect, which is itself is a product of avidya. Because of this logic is never the final proof of anything, but should follow experience and be based on shruti. So, Kutashta and avidya are not contradictory, avidya is contradictory to viveka, discriminatory knowledge. If Kutashta and avidya would be contradicting, who would be experiencing this contradiction? Avidya has no meaning for the Atman, and hence the opposition of avidya by the Atman also has no meaning.

    Subtle and gross bodies are superimposed on Kutashta, producing cidabhasa or jivas. This is similar to superimposition of silver on the pearly shell. First, the nature of the shell is obscured, and we don't know it (avarana shakti). After, silver is projected over it (vikshepa shakti). In this example, shell is real, and its reality is trasferred to imaginary silver. Same way idea of existence is trasferred to imaginary jiva through an error caused by ignorance. Form of the shell and its blue exterior are lost to the vision, and so blissness and un-attachment of Kutashta is lost by superimposition. As people think of "this" as silver (and "this" is more extensive than "silver"), same way they mistaken the Self for the ego (Self is more extensive than the ego). Both have general and variable elements. "This" and "self" can be applied for many different things and animate objects, respectively. The Selfhood of things is the Kutashta, and it is their reality, and particularities such as I-ness are special features, which are different from the Selfhood. The Self is other than all sense of objectivity. Self, or Atman is not only consciousness, but also existence. In the sentence such as "something is" we commit mistake, combining in perception existence (or the reality of Atman) and a special property (objectness), but we don't see ourselves making this mistake. If we would see this mistake, we would begin to see the luminous substratum of things, which can not be called an object at all. Reality is not merely consciousness without existence, but consciousness with existence, in such a manner that the one can not be distinguished from the other. The difference between animate and non-animate is made by jiva on the basis of appearance or non-appearance of chidabhasa.

    There is an universal background of everything, on which subject and object are superimposed. The term "Self" is used to indicate the general feature in all things, and it is different from such terms such as "this" and "that". "Self" is exclusive of all objective elements in experience, while "that" is merely indicating the exclusiveness of things or the difference of one thing from another, and not to signify selfhood. The Self is not an adjective qualifying itself, and it does not demonstrate anything other than itself, not does it distinguish itself from itself, while such words as ‘this’, ‘that’, etc., do indicate such distinction. This and That, Self and non-Self, I and you, etc. are exclusive of each other, but the Atman is not exclusive, except in the sense that it stands opposed to all attempts at objectivising Reality.

    The sense of I in jiva is taken falsely as a center of consciousness, it assumes selfhood for its own experinces and considers the world as an object to it, and the I-ness itself is an object from the point of view of the Atman. I-ness and the Self are different from each other, as silver and the shell are different. Avidya is the cause of all these, and when vidya dawns, avidya is destroyed. But the effects of avidya may persist for some time. Of the three types of karma, agami, sanchita and prarabdha (future, past, and fructifying), first two types are destroyed, and the prarabdha continues to work until exhausting itself, the result is continuation of the life until death, although it does not affect the jnani. Momentum continues for some time after its cause is eliminated.

    Tadatmya adhyasa - intrinsic superimposition of chidabhasa on Kutashta (taking up consiousness for conscious individuality).

    Bhramaja adhyasa - superimposition consequent to the previous one, cause of the future birth.

    Sahaja adhyasa - natural error of identifying the chidabhasa with ahamkara and vice versa.

    Karmaja-adhyasa - identification of the ego with the body and vice versa, will persist in jnani.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 02 December 2009 at 07:22 AM. Reason: To highlight
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  2. #12

    Re: Cidabhasa

    A couple of nice posts in this thread... There are so many names on the same things...
    I recently read about the 5 akasa (space) and I figured the following out:

    Ghata-akasa (Pot-Space) [space in the Body]
    Jala-akasa (Water-Space) [sky reflected in the mind]
    Dahara-akasa (Small-Space) [sky reflected in heart]
    Chit-Akasa (Awareness-Space) [chit apparently is Prajna as I get it]
    Mahat-Akasa (Great-Space) [Sunyata/emptiness… empty of all movements]

    Om. There is in this city of Brahman [body] an abode, the small lotus of the heart; within it is a small akasa [Dahara-akasa]. Now what exists within that small akasa, that is to be sought after, that is what one should desire to understand.” (Chandogya Upanishad, 8.1.1)

    It’s interesting to note that the term Sunyata (emptiness) which Mahayana Buddhism use is the “Great space”! … I remember those discussions a while back with a Buddhist… (although he was Theravada).
    “There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done.” (sss20-15)

  3. #13
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    Re: Cidabhasa

    hari oṁ
    ~~~~~


    Namaste,


    regarding this cit चित् ( which also means 'piling up' 'knowing' , 'giving heed to'), consider this post from sarabhanga:

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=18378&postcount=53

    praām
    यतसà¥à¤¤à¥à¤µà¤‚ शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṠśivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14

    Re: Cidabhasa

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirisilex View Post
    Cidabhasa:

    All I can find for the definition of this word is reflection consciousness.. What does that mean??
    What is chidabhasha , Goswamiji writes….

    krodha ki dvaitabuddhi binu dvaita ki binu agyana,
    mayabasa parichinna jada jiva ki Isa samana.

    Can there be anger without duality or
    duality without ignorance? Can an individual soul, dull, finite and subject to Maya, ever
    be on a par with God?.

  5. #15

    Re: Cidabhasa

    I keep thinking and thinking about what this means.. Even with your help I still don't get it..

    It's reflective so it must be like a mirror right? So.. is it an awareness that reflects the Ahamkara as well as the senses? thus giving the appearance of duality but it isn't ??

  6. #16

    Re: Cidabhasa

    What is chidabhasha , Goswamiji writes….

    krodha ki dvaitabuddhi binu dvaita ki binu agyana,
    mayabasa parichinna jada jiva ki Isa samana.
    Goswamiji isn't talking about chidabhasa in this statement, but clearly saying the jiva. Chidabhasa becomes obscured by the jiva and so light of God is lost and jeev becomes trapped in Mayabhasa.

    "Intellect is superimposed on the Kutashtha and reflects it"


    Look at Atanu's quote from Panchadasi who really has the answer. Thank you Atanu for the wonderful citation. It is amazing.

    "the Anthahkarana is the medium, the reflection is the Chidabhasa, and the Atma, or Kutastha, is the original."
    The one reality is described as if having a fourfold division as Kutashtha, Brahman, jiva and Ishvara, as space contained in a jar, the universal space, and space reflected in water in a jar, and space reflected in clouds. Consciousness, which is unchangeable, and seen as conditioned by gross and subtle bodies on which they are superimposed, is called Kutashtha.Intellect is superimposed on the Kutashtha and reflects it (this is the AbhAsa). This reflection of intellect is animated by vitality and is called jiva. Jiva is subject to transmigration. Kutashtha is obscured by jiva, as space reflected in water in the pot obscures akasha in a pot. ~Jiva and Kutashtha (verses 18-56) from Panchadasi.
    Chidabhasa is the reflection of Kutastha not jiva. In this way it is reflection of the underlying original consciousness which is Iswara from perspective of the individual atma. It is reflection of the original Pure Mind which gets obscured by the mayabhasa of the jeev. Chidabhasa reflects the luminous substratum of things, the awareness of true reality. But it is still like a witness which is standing apart, Kutashtha. So it is reflecting because it is not original form. It is not the Pure Mind directly (God). It is the aspect reflecting from within the heart center, the seat of the jeev atma, the anahata chakra, so what is reflected is Citta. It is the citta in the intellectual awareness of man. It is just a reflection of the Pure Light. It is an individualized reflection of the Pure Light. It is mulapakriti reflecting the root and true nature of things as an individual witness which doesn't directly act. The aspect as jiva directly acts. The aspect as Kutastha perceives from the true light of Brahman consciousness. Chidabhasa reflects the Totality consciousness from the perspective of the individual perceiving objects in the world of form.
    "6. For the human being, the attainment of the state of hamsa (I am He), within his own limits, is considered the highest wisdom. That which remains merely a passive witness between the hamsa and non-hamsa is the akshara purusha in the form of kutastha chaitanya (atma-buddhi). When the knower finds and sees this akshara purusha within himself, he is saved from all future misery of birth and death in this world.

    7. The word kakin is the compound of ka + ak + in. The first syllable, ka, means happiness, the second, ak, means misery, and the third, in, denotes possessing; therefore, one that possesses happiness and misery, the jiva, is called kakin or kaki. Again the vowel a at the end of the syllable ka is the conscious manifestation of mulapakriti or the jiva form of Brahman; therefore, when this a disappears, there remains only the k, which is the one great indivisible bliss of Brahman." ~Uttara Gita, chapter one Knower of the Tattvas
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/8772508/Uttara-Gita
    Chidabhasa is not the vasanas or the obscurations of the jiva directly. It is something which can be obscured by vasanas. Chidabhasa is not the intellect which is under delusion of ahamkara, kaam and krodh and duality but is the reflection of original consciousness within the intellect. Intellect is made up of pakriti and so object cannot be aware. It is the reflection of Brahman consciousness which enlivens, gives existence to, shines and is reflected by Chidabhasa which is also not the highest. It reflects the light of original Mind, but it is standing apart in individuality.
    It's reflective so it must be like a mirror right? So.. is it an awareness that reflects the Ahamkara as well as the senses? thus giving the appearance of duality but it isn't ??
    It doesn't reflect the Ahamkara, it reflects the Cit. Because it reflects the Cit it is consciously aware. It is the aspect of Brahman Chaitanya which has become an individual, Kutastha and thus is able to perceive and discriminate objects in the world from individual conscious intelligence and not as an inert object of pakriti. Chidabhasa is reflecting this innate original Sat-Cit-Ananda Consciousness through the limited faculty of human intellect. But the consciousness light which it reflects is not limited. Only the obscurations of our individuality are the limitation. Because our consciousness comes from the Divine itself, it shows that the Divine is our true nature, and not the individual jeev.

    From Panchadasi: "...and as it is in the case of the reflection of a face in a mirror, where the mirror is the medium and the face is the original with its reflection, in the case of the Self, too, the Anthahkarana is the medium, the reflection is the Chidabhasa, and the Atma, or Kutastha, is the original."

    And "It is not the General Consciousness of Brahman but the reflected consciousness, Chidabhasa, that particularises knowledge. As Brahman is present always, it cannot be said that it is manifesting itself only during the perception of an object. It is the Chidabhasa that rises and falls, but Brahma-Chaitanya is always there, and has no beginning or end."

    Same way idea of existence is trasferred to imaginary jiva through an error caused by ignorance. Form of the shell and its blue exterior are lost to the vision, and so blissness and un-attachment of Kutashta is lost by superimposition... If we would see this mistake, we would begin to see the luminous substratum of things, which can not be called an object at all. Reality is not merely consciousness without existence, but consciousness with existence, in such a manner that the one can not be distinguished from the other. The difference between animate and non-animate is made by jiva on the basis of appearance or non-appearance of chidabhasa. ~Jiva and Kutashtha (verses 18-56) from Panchadasi.
    In the waking, the dreaming, as well as in the deep sleep states, it is possible to make this analysis by which we are enabled to dissect consciousness from the object. An object is known by the mind with the assistance of Chidabhasa-chaitanya (consciousness reflected through the intellect, or the psyche), and it is by this that we know there is such a thing as an object or a form, but the Consciousness behind the ‘I’, which is at the background of even the object consciousness is Brahma-chaitanya (Absolute Consciousness), designated here as Kutastha (internal Self). The knowledge, “This is a body” is brought about by the Chidabhasa, and the knowledge, “I know the body” has its reference to Kutastha. http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/panch/panch_08.html
    Even the knowledge of the absence of an object is based on the Consciousness of the Kutastha, and it is this very Consciousness that enables, later on, the particular form of perception in relation to an object. As an arrow may be sharpened with a pointed steel-head for the sake of hitting objects, the Buddhi, or the intellect, has in itself the projecting form of Consciousness of the Chidabhasa. It is when this Chidabhasa begins to act that we have object-consciousness; otherwise there is ignorance of it, the Consciousness not being particularised. Both the unknown and known conditions of an object are, thus, finally rooted in Brahman-Consciousness, as Kutastha-chaitanya. The intellect by itself cannot know an object, because it is, after all, a modification of Prakriti (cosmic matter). Just as matter cannot know matter, the intellect cannot know an object. What is known is material and what knows is Consciousness. http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/panch/panch_08.html
    It is not the General Consciousness of Brahman but the reflected consciousness, Chidabhasa, that particularises knowledge. As Brahman is present always, it cannot be said that it is manifesting itself only during the perception of an object. It is the Chidabhasa that rises and falls, but Brahma-Chaitanya is always there, and has no beginning or end. There is a verse quoted from Suresvaracharya (a pupil of Sri Sankara) to the effect that Consciousness which manifests itself as an illuminating factor in all external perceptions is really the ultimate object to be known. Here, while Suresvara regards Consciousness as the ultimate end of endeavour, what he means is that the ultimate Consciousness, for all perception, being Brahman itself, it is the Goal of all aspirations, but he does not mean that this Consciousness is the Chidabhasa, because, the latter is absolutely dependent upon the Kutastha. This has been mentioned also by Sankara in his Upadesasahasri. When there is a manifestation of the Chidabhasa there is external perception, but theChidabhasa is itself illumined by another Consciousness as even the absence of any particular object is known by it. The mental modifications, the Chidabhasa and the object, all these three, are simultaneously illumined by the General Consciousness, but the Chidabhasa can illumine only the object. Thus, the distinction between the two is clear. http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/panch/panch_08.html

    In the two types of awareness mentioned, the particular one which gets itself connected to objects has a beginning and an end, and because of its changeful nature, it is different from the General Consciousness behind it, which is immutable and is, therefore, called Kutastha. There has to be posited a witness of the modifications of the mind; otherwise they cannot be known even to exist, and as it is in the case of the reflection of a face in a mirror, where the mirror is the medium and the face is the original with its reflection, in the case of the Self, too, the Anthahkarana is the medium, the reflection is the Chidabhasa, and the Atma, or Kutastha, is the original. http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/panch/panch_08.html

  7. #17
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    Re: Cidabhasa

    Quote Originally Posted by kd gupta View Post
    What is chidabhasha , Goswamiji writes….
    Quote Originally Posted by kd gupta View Post

    krodha ki dvaitabuddhi binu dvaita ki binu agyana,
    mayabasa parichinna jada jiva ki Isa samana.

    Can there be anger without duality or
    duality without ignorance? Can an individual soul, dull, finite and subject to Maya, ever
    be on a par with God?.
    Namaste Guptaji,

    Excellent post. Prostrations to Goswamiji.

    Isha is the source of prAna, pragnya and all that which illuminates the Jiva. But basking in the illuminated light, the jiva forgets "dvaita ki binu agyana?"

    When a Jiva is made to seek the answer to "who am i?", it realises that the small borrowed candle that it is, will be put off at the crack of the dawn, or it will not be needed when the sun rises. Then it knows the "I"; It loses pride of ownership and doership. Then Goswamiji's teaching: krodha ki dvaitabuddhi binu dvaita ki binu agyana, may be comprehended.

    So, other Goswamijis who teach as below are also comprended as EKO-One teacher:

    Kaiv. U.

    Having realized ''I am Brahman,"

    one is released from all bondage.

    Om
    Last edited by atanu; 04 December 2009 at 09:54 PM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  8. #18
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    Re: Cidabhasa

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirisilex View Post
    I keep thinking and thinking about what this means.. Even with your help I still don't get it..

    It's reflective so it must be like a mirror right? So.. is it an awareness that reflects the Ahamkara as well as the senses? thus giving the appearance of duality but it isn't ??
    Namaste Tris,

    I think you are getting it but the thinker itself is the obstruction now. A simple analogy is the Sun (the single reality) being reflected by several water pools and each water pool basking in the glory of shimmering light and priding.

    You may further wish to reflect on these verses from the Katha U.

    5. In the atman one sees as it were in a mirror,
    in the world of the Fathers one sees as in a dream,
    in the world of the spirits, as reflection in water,
    in the world of Brahman, as light and shade.
    6. When the wise man knows the sense perceptions--
    their rising and their setting, each one in separation--
    and the origin of each, then he grieves no more.
    7. Beyond the senses is the mind,
    beyond the mind, pure intellect,
    beyond the intellect, the great atman (Mahat Atman-- the Universe Soul),
    beyond the great, the Unmanifest (the primordial unmanifest prakriti) .
    8. Beyond the unmanifest, moreover, is the Person (Purusha-primeval Eko Atman),
    all-pervading, uncharacterized.
    When a man knows him, he attains liberation
    and proceeds to immortality.
    9. His form is not in the field of vision.
    No one is able to see him with the eye.
    Apprehending him by heart, by thought, and by mind,
    those who know him thus become immortal.
    10. When the five organs of perception are still,
    together with the mind, when the reason does not function--
    this they aver to be the highest state.
    11. This they deem to be yoga--the steady
    concentration of the senses. Man then becomes
    pure attention, for yoga is both
    origin and extinction.
    --------------------
    Give the thinker a rest, bid him a nice fare well. Or query as below:

    Do i know myself? I know myself from a few centimeter away through a mirror, or i know myself a few meters away through the eyes of others. But what is this i in its centre?

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  9. #19

    Re: Cidabhasa

    Thank you Kaurji and Namaste Atanuji
    The thread Aham brahma asmi was leading to a common path approachable both to gyanis and bhaktas , I don’t know why Devoteeji is not giving time to contribute ?
    Upanishads being the vedangas explain , but we can not go beyond Vedas .

    Asunite punarasmasu chakshuh punah pranmih no dhehi bhogam….rig 10/59/6

    Apswagne sadhistav sausidhiranu rudhyase garbhe sanjayase punah…..yaj 12/36

    Shruti says that parmatma takes the pran in form of jiva to enjoy the life from one body to another and jiva has to suffer as per his deeds , so here the integrity of parmatma is also doubtful .

    Now think that these days due to technical facilities a human wants to earn money and to come in the life again and again , but where are those rishis who wanted to leave the body and to meet the original source , of course these are called poor illiterated backward tribals these days . Therefore our learned saints insist on Bhagwannam smaran .

    Shruti confirms it…Tamu stwam ya ima jajan…8/85/6 rig

    Arjun also says to recover the memory and not achieved the gyan..smirtirlabdhwa .

  10. #20
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    Re: Cidabhasa

    Quote Originally Posted by kd gupta View Post
    Shruti says that parmatma takes the pran in form of jiva to enjoy the life from one body to another and jiva has to suffer as per his deeds , so here the integrity of parmatma is also doubtful .
    Namaste,

    Shruti does not teach so. But we surmise so, not knowing the manifest mahesvara within -- the Buddhi called Ganesha.

    The suffering is by cidabhasa and not by sat-cit-ananda. When a person can distinguish between sat-cit-ananda and the Knower (both within), in a trice, shanti, which is the substratum, surfaces. But shanti is lost as soon as Sat-Chit-Ananda is again confused with the Knower, who is merely the thinker of past and present, comprising only of thoughts, sourced from akshara ghana pragnya but bound to ajnana of ego self as real.

    Man is gifted with the greatest freedom -- that of a discrimination faculty called Buddhi, which must be employed to ditinguish the thinker from the sat-cit-ananda. To escape the mAya of knower, the Seer bird, who does not hanker after fruits must be seen. Or one must believe fully, once for all "Arjuna you are not the doer."
    -------------------------
    All questions that are seen to arise here in opposition to the very sat Advaita darshana is by the thinker, who wants false sustenance.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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