Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 16 of 16

Thread: Must-Read Analytical Essays on the shruti--Vedas and Upanishads

  1. #11
    Join Date
    August 2006
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,162
    Rep Power
    1915

    Re: Must-Read Analytical Essays on the shruti--Vedas and Upanishads

    2. The four Vedas issue from Brahman like smoke from burning fuel.

    We come now to the second. According to this, the Vedas issue from Brahman like smoke from burning fuel.

    • The meaning is very clear. It is that the Vedas proceed from Brahman, God as spontaneously as the smoke proceeds from burning fuel silently, noiselessly, naturally and without any exertion. The central idea is yet the same, but to the jaundiced eye of Monier Williams this is a second account inconsistent with the first.

    3. another educes them from the elements;

    The third hypothesis accounts for the origin of the Vedas from the elements. Here Professor Williams is wrong in his translation.

    • The original word in Sanskrita for what he calls the elements is 'bhUta'. Now 'bhUta' does not mean elements but Godhead. bhavanti vidyante padArtho asminniti bhUtaH.

    • God is called BhUta, as all things that have ever existed exist in him. To convey the idea that, the Vedas have existed for ever in the womb of the Divine Wisdom, the Vedas are spoken of as issuing from BhUta, i.e, God who is the Universal Intelligent repository of all things past or old, i.e; all eternal essences and principles. This account does not in the least conflict with the first two, but the poetical use of the word 'bhuta' for God rather more sublimely exexpresses the same sentiment.

    4. another from Gayatri;

    The fourth account is that of the Vedas proceeding from GAyatrI. There also Professor Williams betrays his entire ignorance of Vedic literature by saying that this fourth account is a differ ent one, inconsistent with the three foregoing ones.

    • In 3rd Chapter, 14th section NighaNTu, which is the lexicon of Vedic terms, we have gAyati archati karma, tasmAd gAtatrI bhavati | the meaning of which is that the root gAyati signifies archati--to worship. Hence, the Being who deserves to be adored and worshipped by all, is called gAyatrI.

    • So also says Nirukta in its 7th Adhyaya, III Pada, and 6th Section: gAyatrI gAyateH stuti karmaNa strigamana vA, viparItA, gAyato mukhAdudapataditi cha brAhmaNam |. The Vedas, then, have proceeded from GAyatrI i.e., God who is worshipped and adored by all.

    5. a hymn in the Atharva Veda educes them from kala or Time (XIX, 54);

    Now comes the fifth account of the same in the 3rd Mantra of 5th Kanda of 19th Chapter.

    kAlAdRuchaH samabhavan yajuH kAlAdajAyata which Monier Williams translates as if meaning that Rig and Yajur Vedas have been produced by time (kAla). Here again, our learned Boden Professor of Samskrita and world-renowned Oriental Scholar does not understand the meaning of the word 'kAla'.

    • Says NighaNTu, Chap.II, Kanda 14, kAlayati gatikarmA tasmAt kAlaH which means that the Spirit that is intelligent and pervades all is called 'kAla' or kAlayati saMkhyAti sarvAn padArthAn sa kAlaH--that Infinite Being, in whose comparison all that exists is measurable, is called 'kAla'.

    Kala, therefore, is the name of the same Infinite Being, the same god GAyatrI or Brahma or Swayambhu from whom the Vedas have been described to proceed in the first four accounts given above.

    6. Vedas from the three lights, the fire, the air, and the sun

    No mistake can be more serious on the part of Moiiier Williams than the one he has committed in rendering Shatapatha BrahmaNa's account of the origin of the Vedas.

    According to this account, the Creator brooded over the three worlds and thence produced three lights, the fire, the air, and the sun, from which respectively were extracted the Big, Yajur and Sama Vedas.

    • Here also Williams' mistake lies in substituting English words for Samskrita ones. Williams' own translation with the only modification of putting the original Samskrita words for which he has put the English ones will be:

    God, the Creator, brooded over the three worlds and thence produced the three jyoties Agni, VAyu, and Ravi and thence extracted the three Vedas.

    Now 'jyoti' does not mean light but illuminated being, man in the spiritual state, i.e., in the superior condition, and Agni, VAyu, and Ravi are no names for fire, air and sun, but are names of three men.

    • The meaning of the passage then is, that God in the beginning, created the organizations which received the spirits of three men known by the names of Agni, VAyu and Ravi. To these three rishis, Agni, VAyu and Ravi, men in the superior condition, God revealed the knowledge of Rig, Yajur and SAma respectively. Now, in what way does it contradict the other explanations?

    • Nor does Manu prove what Williams says. Says Manu 1.23:

    agni-vAyu-ravibhyas tu trayaM brahma sanAtanam |
    dudoha yaj~jasiddhyartham Rug-yajur-sAma lakSaNam ||

    This means, that the three Vedas, Rig, Yajur and Sama were revealed to the three rishis, Agni, VAyu and Ravi, to give a knowledge of how to accomplish the purpose of life in this world.

    7. In the Purusha Sukta, the three Vedas are derived from the mystical victim Purusha.

    We come now to the 7th account in Purusha Sukta, where according to Monier Williams, the Vedas are derived from the mystical victim, Purusha.

    • I here quote the Mantra of the Purusha Sukta:

    tasmAdyaj~jAtsarvahuta RuchaH sAmAni jaj~jire |
    ChandAMsi jaj~jire tasmAdyajustasmAdajAyata ||10.090.09||

    The plain meaning of which is that Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Chandas or Atharva Vedas have proceeded from that Purusha who is Yajna and Sarvahuta.

    • Williams renders it into the mystical victim, Purusha. But he is in the wrong. Purusha is the universal spirit that pervades all nature. Says Nirukta II 1-5.

    puruShaH puriShAdaH purishayaH pUrayatervA
    pUrayatyantarityantara puruShamabhipretya
    yasmAtparaM nAparamasti kiMchidyasmAnnANIyo na jyAyo&sti kiMchit
    vRukSha ivastabdho divi tiShThatye kastena idaM pUrNaM puruSheNa sarvam...
    iti nigamo bhavati

    the meaning of which is, that God is called Purusha, because he is puriShAda that is, he pervades the universe and even lives in the interior of the human soul. It is in this sense that the mantra of the Veda is revealed, saying there is nothing superior to God, nothing separate from him, nothing more refined, nothing more extended. He holds all but is himself unmoved. He is the only one. Yes, He, even He, is the spirit that pervades all. It is clear then that Purusha means the universal spirit of God.

    • We come now to the second word Yajna. Says Nirukta, III.4.2:

    yajnaH kasmAt prakhyaataM yajatirkarma iti nairuktA yAch~jyo bhavati iti vA yajurunnas bhavati iti vA bahukRuShNAjina ity aupamanyavo yajU~MShyenam nayati iti vA (3,19)[319]

    The meaning is this. Why is Yajna the name of God; because He is prime mover of all the forces of nature; because He is the only being to be worshipped; and because to Him the Yajur mantras point out.

    • The meaning, then, of the passage of Purusha Sukta quoted by Williams is this: From that God who is called Purusha, i.e., the Universal Spirit, and who is also called Yajna for reasons given above, have proceeded the Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharvan.

    8. Eighthly, the Mimamsakas declare the Vedas to be eternal and independently existent, a view which does not at all conflict with the former ones.

    9. In opposition to all this, we have the rishis themselves frequently intimating that the mantras were com posed by themselves.

    And lastly, says Williams, "We have the rishis themselves frequently intimating that mantras were composed by themselves."

    In these days of spiritualism, no wonder if the spirits of the rishis appeared before Monier Williams and mystically whispered into his ears the composition of the Vedas by themselves. But in so far as the writings of the rishis themselves go, not only is the assertion of Williams merely false and baseless but positively injurious and very pererted.

    • For the rishis themselves declare themselves to be not at all the authors of the Vedas. The Vedas are regarded by all of them as apaurusheya, i.e., not production of human beings.

    • I will quote here Nirukta I,6,5:

    1,20. sAkShAt kRuta dharmANa RuShayo babhUvuh
    1,20. te avarebhyo asAkShAt kRuta dharmabhya upadeshena mantrAn samprAduH

    Also, Nirukta II,3,2, as follows:

    RuShirdarshanAt stomAn dadarsha ity aupamanyavas tad yad enAmstapasyamAnAn brahma svayambhu abhyAnarShat ta RuShayo abhavamstad RuShInAm RuShitvam iti vij~jAyate

    The meaning of these is that rishis were those people who had realised the truths in the Mantras and having done so began to enlighten those of their fellow-brethren who were ignorant of the truths in the same. Further on, says Aupamanyava, the rishis are only the seers of the Mantras, but not the composers.

    We have now shortly dismissed with the first proposition of Williams and partly with the second. The assertion of Williams that the mantras of the Vedas were composed by a whole class of men called rishis is entirely baseless.

    • Not only were they not composed by the whole class, but not even by one individual of that class. The reason why Williams regards this to be so, is that every mantras of the Vedas gives four things, its Chanda, Svara, Devata, and Rishi. The name of the rishi only indicates the man who, for the first time, taught the meaning of that mantra to the world at large.

    **********
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  2. #12
    Join Date
    August 2006
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,162
    Rep Power
    1915

    Re: Must-Read Analytical Essays on the shruti--Vedas and Upanishads

    Criticism of Monier Williams' book 'Indian Wisdom'
    The undefiled monotheism of the Vedas

    Continuing his criticism of the captioned book, Pandit Gurudatta VidyArthi takes up Williams' allegation that the Vedas lack the conception of One God of the Bible.

    Monier Williams list out the 13 gods worshipped in the Vedas and questions the lack of monotheism except in a few verses of the Vedas.

    1. Dyausth-pitar, as the father of the sky Dyauh-pitar, which among Greeks or Romans becomes Zeus or Jupiter.
    2. Aditi, the goddess of infinite expanse mother of all gods.
    3. VaruNa, the god of investing sky, corresponding to Ahurmuzda of Persians and Ozr and Gos of Greeks.

    4. Mitra, the god of the day, associate of VaruNa.
    5. Indra, the god of the watery atmosphere.
    6. Vritta, the spirit of evil that opposed Indra.
    7. Vayu, the god of wind.
    8. Maruts, the storm-gods.

    9. Adityas, who were first regarded as seven in number. The number was finally increased to 12. The worship of the sun and 12 solar months being thus established.

    10. Agni, god of fire.
    11. Ushas, goddess of dawn.
    12. Ashvins, twin precursors of dawn, called also Dasras or doctors and Nasatyas or never untrue.
    13. Yama, the god of departed spirits.

    Before Listing out these gods to show that the Vedas worshipped natural forces that caused awe and affected man's life, Williams says:

    "In the Veda, this unity soon diverged into various ramifications. Only a few of the hymns appear to contain the simple cenception of one divine self-existent omnipresent being and even in these the idea of one God present in all nature is somewhat nebulous and undefined."

    We shall show that the Vedas only sanction pure undefiled monotheism, whereas the Bible is the book wherein the idea of one Divine, Self-existent, Omnipresent God is most nebulous and extremely undefined.

    Rig veda 1.089.05

    tamIshAnaM jagatastasthuShaspatiM dhiyaM jinvamavase hUmahe vayam |
    pUShA no yathA vedasAmasadvR^idhe rakShitA pAyuradabdhaH svastaye ||1.089.05||

    We worship Him, the Lord of the universe of the inanimate and animate creation, for, He is the blesser of our intellect and our protector. He dispenses life and good among all. Him do We worship, for as He is our preserver and benefactor, so is He our way to bliss and happiness also.

    Rig veda 1.022.20

    tadviShNoH paramaM padaM sadA pashyanti sUrayaH |
    divIva chakShurAtatam ||1.022.20||

    The wise people always desire to obtain communion with Him who pervades everywhere, for, He is everywhere, Neither time nor space, nor substance can divide Him. He is not limited to one time or one place or one thing, but is every where just as the light of the sun pervades everywhere in unobstructed space.

    VAjasaneyi-samhitA (32.11), shukla yajur veda

    parItya bhUtAni parItya lokAn parItya sarvA pradIsho dishashcha |
    upasthAya prathamajamRutasyAtamanAtmanAmabhi saMvivesh ||32.11||

    God pervades through all matter and space even the distant suns, the far-off directions and is consciously present everywhere. He is conscious of His own powers. He made the element al atoms with which to begin the creation of the Universe. He is all-bliss and eternal happiness. Any human soul that perceives and realises the existence of this Divine Being within himself and lies in the presence of this God, is saved.

    atharva veda 10.4.7.38

    mahadyaksham bhuvanasya madhye tapasi krAntaM salilasya pRuShTe |
    tasminchChaayante ya u ke cha devA vrkShasya skandhaH parita iva shAkhAH ||

    Brahma who is the greatest of all and worthy of being revered by all, who is present in all the worlds, and fit to be worshipped, whose wisdom and knowledge are boundless, who is even the support of the infinite space, in whom all reside and are supported, as a tree resides in the seed and is supported by it, so is the world supported by Him.

    atharva veda 13.4.16-21

    na dvitIyo na tR^itIyash-chaturtho nApyuchyate |
    na paMchamo na ShaShThaH saptamo nApyuchyate |
    nAShTamo na navamo dashamo nApyuchyate |
    tamidaM nigataM sahaHsa eva eka eka vRudeka eva |
    sarve asmin devA ekavRuto bhavanti ||

    He is only one, there is no second, no third, no fourth God. There is no fifth, no sixth, no seventh God, Yes, there is no eighth, no ninth no tenth God. In him, the Unitary Being, all live, move and have their being.

    You have seen, then, what the religion of the Vedas is. Can there be better, clearer, more distinct expression of monotheism than this? Can we better assert the divinity and omnipresence of God?

    We now come to the Bible, the pet darling of Monier Williams,the Christian's rock of ages, to prove the excellence of which Monier Williams so misinterprets, distorts and vilifies the Vedas.

    Bishop Watson in his letters to Thomas Paine said, "An honest man, sincere in his endeavours to search out truth in reading the Bible, would examine first whether the Bible attributed to the Supreme Being any attribute repugnant to holiness, truth, justice and good ness, whether it represented Him as subject to human infirmities."--B.Watson, P.114.

    I would follow the same course. We find that the Bible does represent God as subject to human infirmities and that it does attribute to Him attributes repugnant to holiness, truth, justice and goodness.

    It represents God as subject to human infirmities. It represents Him as having body, subject to wants and weaknesses like those of ourselves. When He appears to Abraham, He appears, according to the Bible, as three angels. Then they talked to Abraham, etc. The Bible runs thus:

    "2. And he (Abraham) lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground.

    3. And said, my Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

    4. Let a little water, pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.

    5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye, your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for, therefore, are ye come to your ser vant, And they said "so do, as thou hast said."

    6. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, (his wife) and said, "Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth."

    7. And Abraham ran into the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.

    8. And he took butter; and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

    9. And they said unto him. Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.

    10. And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and lo, Sarah, thy wife, shall have a son."--Vide Genesis, Chap. XVIII.

    The rest of the criticism is missing. Ed.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  3. #13
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: Must-Read Analytical Essays on the shruti--Vedas and Upanishads

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté saidevo,

    you offer the following....
    1. the Vedas are really unwritten knowledge issuing like breath from the Self-existent.--MW

    • Now, does Professor Williams imagine that there can ever be anything like a written knowledge? I am not here speaking of the knowledge being written down, but of written knowledge.

    • Professor Williams seems to imagine that the Vedas are laboring under a very serious defect. The Christians, he seems to think, have a definite revelation, as it is put down in black and white; and so have the Muhammedans, for, their book descended from heaven in its present form. So the Christians have a settled revelation in a definite form.
    I do not comprehend this ' I am not here speaking of the knowledge being written down, but of written knowledge'

    I am not certain these are your words. I tried to follow the post backwards to it's origin but failed to see the 'seed' of the post. I only mention this to be sure if these are your own words or that which comes from another.

    That said, I cannot discern the difference between knowledge that is written down vs. written knowledge. I see this as only the change or movement of the verb in front of the noun or the noun in front of the verb. Where are the differences? Perhaps you can help with an example?

    And regarding knowledge overall, Monsieur Williams acknowledges that the Tradition preferred oral to written communication. He was quite astute by categorizing the overall sanātana dharma approach by 4 word/roots:
    vidyā - from vid, to know
    śruti - from śru , to hear

    śāstra - from śās , to teach
    smṛiti - from smṛ , to remember.

    After using the Monier Williams Sanskrit to English Dictionary for some years now, I do not see, or read where Professor Williams finds any defect with the veda-s. The word 'seems' used in the sentence suggests probability vs. certainty of his concern of some defect with the veda, yet I do not sense this.

    My blind spot could be simple - I view ( by his work) that Monsieur Williams is an advocate of sanātana dharma.

    Indian works do not suffer by comparison with the best specimens (offered) from Greece and Rome; while in wisdom, depth, and shrewdness of their moral apothegms they are unrivalled. Monier Williams Sanskrit to English Dictionary, 2002 edition, page xxv, Monsieur Williams


    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 December 2009 at 11:13 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
    Join Date
    August 2006
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,162
    Rep Power
    1915

    Re: Must-Read Analytical Essays on the shruti--Vedas and Upanishads

    namaste Yajvan.

    In this thread, from post no.6 onwards, the material I have presented is from the book 'Wisdom of the Rishis' by Pandit Gurudatta VidyArthi downloadable here:
    (http://www.archive.org/download/wisd...0vidyuoft.pdf).

    This I have mentioned in post no.6. This book also includes his earlier work I quoted in the post no.2, 'The terminology of the Vedas and the European Scholars' as a chapter in it.

    The quote you have extracted from my post no.10 is from the book 'Wisdom of the Rishis', page 383 (397 of the pdf document). I have NOT added anything by paraphrase to the quote.

    As PGD has quoted, Monier Williams has stated in his book 'Indian Wisdom', the following in respect of Quran, Bible and the Vedas, which I have given in post no.10 before the text you have quoted, and is found in page 382 (396 in pdf) of the book:

    • The Quran is "a single volume manifestly the work of one author, descended entire from heaven in the night called al qadr, in the month of Ramazan."

    • "The Old Testament was furnished with its accompaniment of Chaldee translations and paraphrases called Targums."

    • "The word Veda, on the other hand, means knowledge; and is a term applied to divine unwritten knowledge, imagined to have issued like breath from the Self-existent, and communicated to no single person, but to a whole class of men called Rishis or inspired sages.

    By them the divine knowledge thus apprehended was transmitted, not in writing, but through the ear, by constant oral repetition through a succession of teachers, who claimed as Brahmans to be its rightful recipients...

    Moreover, when at last, by its continued growth, it became too complex for mere oral transmission, then this Veda resolved itself, not into one single volume, like the Quran, but series of compositions, which had in reality been composed by a number of different poets and writers at different times during several centuries."
    PGD interprets these statements thus (post no.10):
    • Now, does Professor Williams imagine that there can ever be anything like a written knowledge? I am not here speaking of the knowledge being written down, but of written knowledge.

    • Professor Williams seems to imagine that the Vedas are laboring under a very serious defect. The Christians, he seems to think, have a definite revelation, as it is put down in black and white; and so have the Muhammedans, for, their book descended from heaven in its present form. So the Christians have a settled revelation in a definite form.
    I think I understand PGD's expression 'knowledge that is written down vs. written knowledge'. Monier Williams distinguishes between the revelation of the Vedas and those of Bible and Quran with the phrase 'unwritten knowledge'. Quran and Bible were given to man in written form, so they are written knowledge unlike the Vedas which were given in unwritten form--as unwritten knowledge.

    MW thereby implies clearly that the 'unwritten knowledge' suffers from the defect of shortcomings of the mind in its transmission, unlike the Quran and Bible which came down as written knowledge.

    Actually, the Bible was later 'written down' by the Apostles of Jesus after his death. The Quran was also 'written down' by the Prophet's followers after his death. Whereas MW talks about their revelation in an already written form as a book from God unlike the Vedas. This is the reason PGD counters his statement sayting "I am not here speaking of the knowledge being written down, but of written knowledge."

    Monier Williams in his major and most popular work 'The Sanskrit-English Dictionary' seems to give no indications of his--what shall I say?--problems with the Vedas, but although I have not read his book 'Indian Wisdom', from what PGD quotes from that work and explains, I am much inclined to think that MW for all his scholarship was primarily a Christian missionary and not an unprejudiced scholar, which is of course a shocking piece of revelation to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Indian works do not suffer by comparison with the best specimens (offered) of Greece and Rome, while in wisdom, depth, and shrewdness of their moral apothegms they are unrivalled. Monier Williams Sanskrit to English Dictionary, 2002 edition, page xxv, Monsieur Williams
    I think I should compare this observation of MW with his seven objects of writing the book 'The Indian Wisdom' given in my post no.10 under the section "Monier Williams' Christian Agenda".

    You are aware that in my thread 'Extrapolating Christianity--to What End?' I had long arguments with Sarabhanga about the Christian agenda of Max Muller and William Jones, but I never had any idea that a man like Monier Williams had that agenda. Nevertheless, I have no qualms about using his MWD.

    As a person born in Hinduism who like most Hindus has neglected learning the Sanskrit language until late in life, I feel sad and betrayed that the European translations of our Vedas which are rather indispensable to us are so much undependable.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  5. #15
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    71
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    223

    Re: Must-Read Analytical Essays on the shruti--Vedas and Upanishads

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    Namasté saidevo,

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    namaste Yajvan.

    In this thread, from post no.6 onwards, the material I have presented is from the book 'Wisdom of the Rishis' by Pandit Gurudatta VidyArthi downloadable here . This I have mentioned in post no.6. This book also includes his earlier work I quoted in the post no.2, 'The terminology of the Vedas and the European Scholars' as a chapter in it.

    The quote you have extracted from my post no.10 is from the book 'Wisdom of the Rishis', page 383 (397 of the pdf document). I have NOT added anything by paraphrase to the quote...

    As a person born in Hinduism who like most Hindus has neglected learning the Sanskrit language until late in life, I feel sad and betrayed that the European translations of our Vedas which are rather indispensable to us are so much undependable.
    Thank you for your audit trail. I think I now see what was offered in the light that it was intended.

    Also, I must agree that many European translations lack the appreciation and in-depth skill of saskt.
    When I see what many write and then do my own investigation into the words, the translations are lacking in 'spirit' and in depth. I do not think this makes the translator a 'bad' person, just an unfortunate - missing the sattā ( being, essence) that a hymn brings to mind.

    If it's a totally academic translation, what sticks out ( for me) is the lack of personal experience of the words themselves.

    Now that said, this does not suggest any boasting on my side, as I too am the śiya within this saskt-nāgarī i.e. I lack formal training. Perhaps this will be rectified in the future.

    praṇām
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
    Join Date
    August 2006
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,162
    Rep Power
    1915

    Re: Must-Read Analytical Essays on the shruti--Vedas and Upanishads

    Pandit Gurudatta VidyArthi in the following essay, found in the pages 330-334 of the book The Wisdom of the Rishis, explains how statements such as, "The Vedas are eternal; they will exist even if their publication in book form or even their oral chanting stops", are not just theological hyberboles.

    The real nature of the Veda:
    Origin of thought and language

    Language, as Aristotle calls it, is but the outward thought, and thought is the inward language. Both of them are logos.

    [The term 'logos' in Greek Philosophy means "reason, thought of as constituting the controlling principle of the universe and as being manifested by speech."--sd]

    • Wherever a word exists in any language, the corresponding thought is sure to exist, and a thought has no clear and distinct shape in the mind of the thinker, unless it is fixed in a word.

    • So the thought and language of man grew simultaneously, and our surest method of tracing the thought of man to its very root is to trace the history of human speech.

    • Herein lies the greatest importance of the Vedas. They supply us with ample material for tracing the history of human speech and thought to its very origin.

    • And inasmuch as they give us this--when, and how of the origin of all human thought,--they have a right to be called the revelation. No other existing book can satisfy this condition, and can, therefore, be no revelation.

    But where, then, did, language come from? This theory of revelation will lead us in the right direction.

    • It is well known that the Indian grammarians call the alphabetical sounds of the Sanskrita language the akShara samAmnoya. This means the Veda, i.e., the revelation which consists of literal sounds.

    • In other words, according to the Hindu theories of revelation, which we have seen to be the only true one, these literal sounds are (akShara), the eternal sounds of Nature.

    • The origin of the articulate speech of man, which is made of these literal sounds, is in the sounds of nature.

    • And this everybody will acknowledge, if he examines carefully the roots of the Sanskrita language, out of which have been formed, as YAska and ShAkatAyana tell us, all the nouns and verbs, &c., of the language.

    • The roots are the sounds which man learned to imitate from nature, and out of these by-and-bye grew the language which is now our pride, as also did its sister languages.

    • For sometime men used to talk only with roots, as they could not have done otherwise. And these roots expressed single ideas.

    • When man had progressed so far that the combination of two single thoughts became a necessity of his life, two roots expressing the two different ideas were placed side by side.

    • To take the more familiar English language, the word kingdom means the house or dominion of a king. Before their composition, both of these words conveyed a separate and independent idea.

    When the necessity was felt of expressing an idea compounded of these two, these words were placed side by side. But dom did not as yet lose its independence, and carried to the mind of the speaker, as before, the idea of a separate power.

    By-and-bye, however, it became dependent on king, and lost its separate and independent power. In fact, it became, to borrow an expressive idea from the Chinese grammarian, empty. Henceforward it was only as mere suffix, and nothing more.

    • The same happened with the last of the roots which we have seen were placed side by side in the beginning of the second stage in the development of language.

    • Thus, for example, the two roots रुद्--rud (to howl) and र--ra (to give) were placed side by side, when it became a necessity to express the compound idea of a being, which "gave" and "sent the rolling sound of thunder". This gave us the word रुद्र--rudra, the "howl-giver."

    The word is a compound, very similar to the later इन्द्रजित्--indrajit, which literally rendered is only "Indra-win," the high accent being on the word इन्द्र--indra.

    • But the principal idea being that of the root रुद्--rud, the other became very soon empty, and was reduced to a mere suffix, giving to the root the idea of agency, just as in the word इन्द्रजित्--Indrajit.

    • One thing let us remember now. It is that, in order to understand any thought properly, we must trace the word which is its outward representative, to its root, and thence form the radical meaning to trace all the intermediate steps to the then meaning of the word. Then only shall we find what were the sensuous beginning of all our ideas, i.e., their true revelation.

    • But we must have light-houses to guide our courses in this dark ocean of linguistic investigation. There must be some intermediate link that may give us some clue at least to the origin and development. And that light-house, that link, is supplied by the Veda. There we see the ideas growing and coming out, and inasmuch as they are the only existing revelation.

    The name of the Veda explained

    • Revelation in Sanskrita is called either the shruti, the AmnAya, or samAmnAya, and the veda.

    I have explained the meaning of shruti. It means the voice of Nature.

    When these voices have done their work, man has come to know something, to possess all these ideas which he could not have possessed without them; then this shruti becomes the veda, inasmuch as it is now known.

    The word AmnAya comes from the root mnA--to meditate upon, with the prefix A--on all sides, and the suffix ya. It means that which ought to be thoroughly meditated upon.

    • And indeed it is only by a thorough and critical examination of the SaMhitAs that we can reach in that mass of song true to revelation. This Veda is quite independent of the SaMhitAs, It will exist all the same, whether they exist or not.

    But if the SaMhitAs be lost, it will become difficult for us to recover the true Veda: for it is to be found in them alone, as their names themselves testify.

    • The SaMhitAs are called respectively the Rig Veda, the Yajur Veda, etc. The meanings of these are the following: The Rig Veda means a book, a collection in which the Veda is found in the Richas or praises; the SAma Veda means that science which is on the subject of sAmans--chanting hymns, and so on.

    • With this meaning these books are, in a figurative sense, sometimes simply spoken of as the Vedas; but their true names are simply the Rik, the SAman, etc. or, the Rig Veda, the Sama Veda, etc.

    Thus we see that in reality the Veda cannot be a book, it cannot even be articulate speech. The true Veda is rather a matter of feeling and knowing. And that feeling and that knowledge the SaMhitAs give us in a very tangible form.

    **********
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •