Same soul returns from sleep

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

Just a side note on the notion of waking up to another's body.

The 107th kārikā of the vijñāna bhairava calls out a ~simular~ approach ( upāya ). I will use svāmī lakṣman-jū's words and avoid the saṃskṛt ( unless requested).
One should experience the consciousness also in the body of others as in one's own. Giving up the concern for one's own body, one becomes all-pervading within days.

We have heard of the stories of Ādi Śaṅkara-ji doing this.

I also support saidevo's idea,

this thread with such good foregone discussions needs to be moved to another, suitable forum.

As atanu is the author, perhaps he can decide the name and folder he perfers and we can ask satay to move it accordingly.

praṇām

[atanu]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~
Namasté
Just a side note on the notion of waking up to another's body.
The 107th kārikā of the vijñāna bhairava calls out a ~simular~ approach ( upāya ). I will use svāmī lakṣman-jū's words and avoid the saṃskṛt ( unless requested).
One should experience the consciousness also in the body of others as in one's own. Giving up the concern for one's own body, one becomes all-pervading within days.
We have heard of the stories of Ādi Śaṅkara-ji doing this.
I also support saidevo's idea,

As atanu is the author, perhaps he can decide the name and folder he perfers and we can ask satay to move it accordingly.
praṇām

Namaste saidevoji and yajvanji, Thanks for adding more pickle. The post may go into scripture section, may be?

There is a story in Yoga Vasista of 100 Rudras. Much of the confounding ideas running around in everyones minds can be put to sleep, if we bring into picture that actually the controller -- or the reality of all these chidabhasa is one consciousness only. In fact in my shell inhabitates incarnation of a Rishi, who is linked to Rudra.

Mahanarayana U.
XXIV-1: All this verily is Rudra. To Rudra who is such we offer our salutation. We salute again and again that Being, Rudra, who alone is the light and the Soul of creatures. The material universe the created beings and whatever there is manifoldly and profusely created in the past and in the present in the form of the world, all that is indeed this Rudra. Salutations be to Rudra who is such.
XXV-1: We sing a hymn that confers on us happiness in the highest degree to Rudra who is worthy of praise, who is endowed with the highest knowledge, who rains objects to the worshippers most excellently, who is more powerful and who is dwelling in the heart. Indeed all this is Rudra. Salutations be to Rudra who is such.

The story in YV states how Rudra (in the swan) realises that all this is Rudra - Him. He remembers His original form as all pervasive. The full chain from the original Rishi to the Swan get illumined. I do not understand the story fully, since the effect is almost like ingesting some drug. I did not understand as to who initiated the illumination? (Anyway, I feel like reading it again, which i will do).

A friend of mine says: Harmonising the functions of Creator, Maintainer, and Destroyer is Moksha. So, there are three beings vying for supremacy.

From another perspective, the body is assemlage of Seven Rishis (who became dis-embodied during previous Pralaya) by the will of Mukhya Prana - Indra, who (the Seer) is the reality of the body. The Seer is Seer since there is Consciousness, which is there because there is a Self who Sees the consciousness. The Self and the Seer are one.

Ramana Maharshi similarly says "This body is like a transistor radio." THe Buddha simply said this is an assemblage of khandas. The deranged minds that we see occassionally, IMO, are linked to such things -- say two contradictory souls trying to grab a residence.

Till we are not aware of single Rudra, our body is inhabitated by many beings. Some are cooperative to each other but most are not. I suppose all these -- the Lion, the Rat, the Peacock, the Snakes, The Bull, the beautiful Lady, the tortoise, four children -- all become cooperative when the Lord glances.

Else this is just a battle ground-- the Kurukhestra.

Just rambling thoughts.

Om Namah Shivaya

[atanu]

The above may not be just the rambling thoughts perhaps?

Brahma Sutra

SECTION - II

Topic-1: Dream State
1. In the intermediate stage (of dream) occurs (real) creation; for the Upanishad says so.
2. And some (following a particular branch) consider the Self to be a creator (of things desired); and sons and others (are the objects desired).
3. But the dream creation is a mere Maya, because of its nature of not being a complete manifestation of the totality of attributes (found in the wakeful state).
4. A dream is also an omen, for so it is known from the Upanishads and experts say so.
5. From the meditation on the supreme Lord, however, becomes manifest that which remains obscured; because the soul�s bondage and freedom are derived from Him.
6. Or rather that covering occurs also on account of connection with the body.

Om Namah Shivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté atanu (et.al)

There is a story in Yoga Vasista of 100 Rudras. Much of the confounding ideas running around in everyones minds can be put to sleep, if we bring into picture that actually the controller -- or the reality of all these chidabhasa is one consciousness only. In fact in my shell inhabitates incarnation of a Rishi, who is linked to Rudra.

Mahanarayana U.
XXIV-1: All this verily is Rudra. To Rudra who is such we offer our salutation. We salute again and again that Being, Rudra, who alone is the light and the Soul of creatures.

Till we are not aware of single Rudra, our body is inhabitated by many beings. Some are cooperative to each other but most are not. I suppose all these -- the Lion, the Rat, the Peacock, the Snakes, The Bull, the beautiful Lady, the tortoise, four children -- all become cooperative when the Lord glances.

Else this is just a battle ground-- the Kurukhestra.

Yes, I see your point...inhabited by many beings.

I have grown to repect the full qualities of rudra more and more. In jyotish, 11 rudra's are considered in one's chart as rudra is associated with 11 ( but we needn't go there now).

Just spending time with śrī rudram (also called śatarudrīya & has 11 hymns) and camakaṁ brings the appreciation of this blossoming of rudra. He ( rudra रुद्र) is seen as the howler/roarer. Yet rudra is the protector. He creates 'rud' weeping and crying to negitive forces, not of the good or sattvic. He is called out as the 'protector' in the praśna upaniṣad ( chapt 2.9) - rudro 'si parirakṣitā¹ .

you mention,

Else this is just a battle ground-- the Kurukhestra

The jābāla¹ upaniṣad (some write jābālopaniṣad), a conversation between bṛhaspiti and the ṛṣi yajñavalalya, addresses questions such as the region of the breath, the divine offering for the senses, and the abode of brahma for all living things; ṛṣi yajñavalalya mentions kurukṣetra as 'the place of breathing and it is the divine offering of the senses ' . One can see this as the body and/or the battleground as you mention , or too it can be seen as the divine altar for 'giving back'.

I am still studying this upaniṣad and hope to really appreciate its knowledge and insights.

praṇām

words

• parirakṣitā is pari + rakṣita : pari = abundently, fully + rakṣita = guarded , protected , saved , preserved , maintained; Hence rudra (rudro) is the abundant protector
• jābāla - as a noun, a school of the yajur-veda

[mukunda20]

Namaste Everyone,
first of all sorry for the delayed reply.
Yajvan ji told
"So, now the question is how to do this? And we have written about many approaches here on HDF. Perhaps when you have time, you may wish to share your knowledge about this?"
and Atanu ji told
"On this my understanding differs. If Atma (which I call soul or conditioned individual Atma) transcends and gets in touch with the Highest Atma, then why should it come back? Is it pushed back? As Shri Krishna says "I hurl the hard of Heart into lower and lower demonic worlds"
every action\Karma can be either voluntary or involuntary.
involuntary transcendence to the Para Brahman state(during deep sleep) is an indication of such a state being existent to those who cannot perceive the state(due to Maya while being awake) and voluntary transcendence to that state(through Sadhana) which is permanent in nature after overcoming the Maya while being awake. the way to do this is just to follow the same steps voluntarily which were taken in the involuntary way i.e transcending over the lower levels. the same procedure is termed as Sadhana where in :
1:body 2:senses 3: mind and 4: intellect have to be transcended.
for this as Sri Krishna has said in the Gita to Arjuna
"Trigunya vishaya Veda, nistrigunyo bhavaarjuna"
Maya and Jnana cannot remain about a single topic at the same time. at the lowest level, either we know(have Jnana) about a topic, or we are ignorant(under the cloud of Maya) about the same(here the meaning of ajnaana\ignorance has been equated to being a subset of the whole set known as Maya).
so gaining more Jnana will remove Maya about the same, which does a number of parallel things some of which are
1:body: it removes the materialistic desire of body once the person is oriented towards Jnana.
2: senses: they become more self constrained
3: mind(Tamasika+Rajasika+Satvika) will improve the Satvika(Jnana) content which automatically decreases the Tamasika(Ajnana) content and simultaenously lowering the Rajasika(materialistic).
4: intellect: lesser number of unwanted thoughts and more focus on goal(attaining Jnana) which sharpens the intellect and points to Jnana Daaha(urge to learn).
once all these are Jnana are learnt by the Veda(Yat Vid, iti Veda:That which is Vidya, is Veda), then the composition of the mind will be such that Tamasika and Rajasika gunas will be negligible and Satvika guna will be maximum. thus affecting the lower and higher levels where body and senses will be transcended. This will lead to the next step where the person would have gained infinite Jnana such that he\she will transcend over all the gunas(gunas will not matter anymore) which is what Sri Krishna means by "nistrigunyo bhavaarjuna" and simultaenously, the intellect will also mean nothing since the infinite Jnana will make the Atma realise that it is Paramatma.This state is the permanent state of Para Brahman(which is attained voluntartily through Sadhana).

Atanuji also told
"It is not the Atma that transcends to any other loka or place. The Supreme Self is seated within the heart itself. It is the desires of the heart which cause union and separation. Again that would be wrong as per Advaita, since there was no individual atma except superposition."
Yes completely agreed with this point. But the only difference between my thoughts and yours is that you are stating the fact from Paramatma's(Supreme Self) view, and I am stating the same from an Atma's point of view, where "the desire of the heart" is "Maya".
Its this Maya which is preventing it to realise that it is the Paramatma and nothing else as it is stated in the verse "Ekameva advitiyam"(One without a second).
please correct me if wrong.
Best Regards,
mukunda