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Thread: Fairytale religions

  1. #11
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    Re: Fairytale religions

    amra.. Thank you for translating this time.

    Aum Namasivaya

  2. #12
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    Re: Fairytale religions

    Quote Originally Posted by amra View Post
    My dear Brother forget that story it was no good i'll do a better one just for you, because I love to read your posts.

    I'll try to keep it pertinent to the thread.......

    Once upon a time a Devil from the West a Man from the East and a God from the North met up for a chat. There was one from the South but he is invisible and unnameable and he doesn't talk he just hits with his stick. Now they all had brought with them tablets of stone inscribed with certain teachings. The Devil said his tablet had been inscribed with a sword made of fire. The God said his tablet had been inscribed by Lightening from the heavens. The Man said his Tablet had been etched by wind rain and earth. Then the God who was the wisest said let us compare what is written on these tablets. And Lo! the tablets described the very same thing word for word! The three were stunned. They stared at each other for a long time, for each of them secretly thought that they had a superior tablet of teachings than the others. The Devil rose up and said with unfocused smoky eyes my sword of fire is the most powerful Sajda karo tum kuthayon! (Bow down you dogs) The Man laughed and said Vi-arth baatein mat karo Moorakh! (do not talk nonsense fool!) The wind and rain teri talwar ki Aagg noo bujh deinge(will put out the fire of your sword) Then the God raising himself to full stature and with an arrogantly serene placid face said the fire from the heavens will strike you both tum kuthay de putray shish jhuka key apne shishon dey upar dhool sit-o kyon key aasi moorakhta dekha-kai tum salay kuthay daya de pater nahin hain main tum uper thukda hain. (you sons of dogs lower your heads and throw dust on your heads by saying such foolish things you are not worthy of compassion, i spit on you.

    This then went on and on the three forgot that the teachings on all three tablets was the same. And the one from the South was laughing licking his lips and rubbing his hands together...........

    amra saab,

    But what was that maha Ladoo?

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  3. #13

    Re: Fairytale religions

    The math usually does not add up in the Christian faith, from what I have seen at least:

    1 life of sin = endless torture
    1 life of sin + some repentance and belief = endless bliss
    1 life of sin + being a dedicated monk or saint = same endless bliss

    Very disproportionate consequences from what I can see, not too much balance in the system.

    Also the Christian God was very bloody and ruthless in the days of old, and would show up in visions, do miracles and send angels to smite armies and cities on many occasions, in plain sight. But then his mood changed, he became less active and more compassionate, turn the other cheek as it were, and also now that we have cameras and satellites to document things, he no longer appears at all like he used to, although any apparition now would have a huge effect and cause millions to convert

  4. #14
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    Re: Fairytale religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    The math usually does not add up in the Christian faith, from what I have seen at least:

    1 life of sin = endless torture
    1 life of sin + some repentance and belief = endless bliss
    1 life of sin + being a dedicated monk or saint = same endless bliss

    Very disproportionate consequences from what I can see, not too much balance in the system.

    Also the Christian God was very bloody and ruthless in the days of old, and would show up in visions, do miracles and send angels to smite armies and cities on many occasions, in plain sight. But then his mood changed, he became less active and more compassionate, turn the other cheek as it were, and also now that we have cameras and satellites to document things, he no longer appears at all like he used to, although any apparition now would have a huge effect and cause millions to convert
    I very much agree with your statement about the math not adding up. I might be able to accept the idea that God vengefully punishes sin. But this equalization of all sin is what makes no sense to me. Christians claim that this is because humans don't understand the terrible magnitude of all sin. They claim that stealing from a candy store is effectively no different from mass murder. The idea is that the candy thief should repent of his ways and recognize that he is as bad as a mass murderer for what he's done. Usually it works the other way. The Christian politican who gets caught in a sex scandal appeases his conscience by telling himself that his adultery is no worse than stealing an office stapler, because of the equality of all sin. This doctrine of salvation by grace through faith, though touted by evangelicals as the core of their faith, is very dangerous, because it makes light of sin instead of having the intended effect. I much prefer the Hindu view of sin, in which each sin results in a commensurate negative effect, as per the law of karma. Christians say that our belief in karma obscures God's grace, because it leaves no room for grace. This also is not true, because karma can be eliminated by wholehearted devotion to God. But if Christians want to accuse Hindus of having no quick fixes to sin (i.e. say a prayer and be free of guilt), then that's a charge I'll happily accept.

    As far as the apparent change in the Christian God's behavior, I suppose it can be partly excused by the fact that there are many passages in the Old Testament about God's mercy and love, and even a few New Testament passages about God's wrath. The big problem for them is that God doesn't seem to be doing anything today. As you said, in the age of video technology, God's miracles seem to have toned down. That's the problem when you believe in a God of the gaps, as Christians seem to.

  5. #15

    Re: Fairytale religions

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjaya View Post
    As far as the apparent change in the Christian God's behavior, I suppose it can be partly excused by the fact that there are many passages in the Old Testament about God's mercy and love, and even a few New Testament passages about God's wrath. The big problem for them is that God doesn't seem to be doing anything today. As you said, in the age of video technology, God's miracles seem to have toned down. That's the problem when you believe in a God of the gaps, as Christians seem to.
    Yeah also with the appearance of Statistics, we now know that the % of people of ANY religion, that are killed / maimed / wounded in earthquakes, hurricanes and other natural disasters, closely matches their % in the general population.

    Meaning, in a population with 50% Christians and 50% Hindus, in an earthquake you are likely to see 50% Christian victims and 50% Hindu ones. So much for the gods' direct involvement and intervention, in protecting their own team

    IMHO, the concept of 'as above so below' can be taken 100% literally: We are a part of God and Creation, exactly how the cells on our fingers are a part of us. We do take care of them, provide protection and nourishment, and if they have it bad we have it bad, but we don't spend any time thinking about, or communicating with cell no. 12312345873485973458923423 or judging it in some specific way.

    It's all a self-regulating system, there are laws, causes and effects, but generally the One Source, the Infinite, will not actually 'spend time' to chat with any one human, answer prayers directly or favour one side in a war. That's what I for one believe at least

  6. #16
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    Re: Fairytale religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    Yeah also with the appearance of Statistics, we now know that the % of people of ANY religion, that are killed / maimed / wounded in earthquakes, hurricanes and other natural disasters, closely matches their % in the general population.

    Meaning, in a population with 50% Christians and 50% Hindus, in an earthquake you are likely to see 50% Christian victims and 50% Hindu ones. So much for the gods' direct involvement and intervention, in protecting their own team
    This is quite true. Granted, a Christian might respond that God allows Christians to suffer in order to give the rest of us an image of what hell will be like if we don't repent and believe in Christianity (see Luke chapter 13, on Jesus' statements concerning the falling of the Tower of Siloam). But the truth is, we don't know what God's purpose is in all of this. That's the problem with Christianity: it makes specific claims about the nature of God, but we don't actually see any correspondance to reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    IMHO, the concept of 'as above so below' can be taken 100% literally: We are a part of God and Creation, exactly how the cells on our fingers are a part of us. We do take care of them, provide protection and nourishment, and if they have it bad we have it bad, but we don't spend any time thinking about, or communicating with cell no. 12312345873485973458923423 or judging it in some specific way.

    It's all a self-regulating system, there are laws, causes and effects, but generally the One Source, the Infinite, will not actually 'spend time' to chat with any one human, answer prayers directly or favour one side in a war. That's what I for one believe at least
    Personally I believe what Hindu Scriptures teach about God. Just as Sri Krishna favored the Pandevas in the Kurukshetra war, God will also take sides in human affairs. Specifically he will side with the righteous. I also believe what many Hindu saints and avatars have said: that God answers the prayers of his devotees.

    But the good thing about Hinduism is that we tolerate a multitude of views on any subject, including deistic and atheistic views. If you believe in a self-regulating universe, and it leads you to live a good life, then that's good enough for me. Of course I'm always up for debate if anyone's interested...

  7. #17

    Re: Fairytale religions

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjaya View Post
    Personally I believe what Hindu Scriptures teach about God. Just as Sri Krishna favored the Pandevas in the Kurukshetra war, God will also take sides in human affairs. Specifically he will side with the righteous. I also believe what many Hindu saints and avatars have said: that God answers the prayers of his devotees.

    But the good thing about Hinduism is that we tolerate a multitude of views on any subject, including deistic and atheistic views. If you believe in a self-regulating universe, and it leads you to live a good life, then that's good enough for me. Of course I'm always up for debate if anyone's interested...
    Can't hurt to share opinions, and though most of what I believe comes from direct vision during trips, I am open to learning about the scriptures, since many people that contributed to their creations were on much higher spiritual levels, so they have much to teach us.

    I think most of the misunderstandings in all teachings today stems not so much from the teacher, who may have a real connection, but from the imperfections of the language we use, and methods of communications available to us.

    From what I have seen there are indeed systems and beings that take our thoughts, frequencies and intentions, and manifest them into material reality. So our 'prayers' if you want, may well get 'answered'.

    What I am saying is that the beings and systems that do the answering and manifesting, are, like us, just another part of creation, and not The One Source of it.

    The one vague perception I have had of the source (with some DMT), was a lot like the Sun, but much larger. There was connection to the Big Bang, to all galaxies, all time, all forms of life that have ever lived and will ever live as long as the universe exists, it was shining a bright light of life and vitality on all of us, and sustained this whole universe with its presence.

    However the closer one looked to it, the more time and space shifted, the rules changed, the beings on those levels were ever greater and greater, millions of times more powerful and complex than us, and the Source itself was far beyond what I for one could grasp.

    When talking about God (or the One Source as I call it) we must remember that this is an entity (?) that deals ABOVE the level of planet, star system, galaxy, galaxy cluster, billions of years, even countless non-material planes that coexist with us. Much above all that, and we are MORE different from it, than bacteria and viruses are from us.

    Sure there can be incarnations, manifestations of certain limited aspects of it, reduced so we can access them and learn, but beyond that, at least for myself, I found that only this sort of comparison puts things in perspective: we are like a single cell in God's body.

    Now I'm not saying direct communication is impossible, but rather that the distance required to achieve it, the change required within us, is MUCH larger than most people realize.

    And to get back on topic, for Christians to promote the idea that putting the head down, palms together and knees on the floor is enough to get ego-driven 'prayers' all the way up to the Source, is to me, nothing short of spectacularly funny

  8. #18
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    Re: Fairytale religions

    Vanakkam Explorer: I have been reading your posts in all threads. I am no expert by any means, but this is what I have read or know in regards to several of your questions.

    Firstly, I know of no Hindu sage or Guru who recommends hallucinogenics as a means at all. They are seen as temporal gateways to inner worlds only, and hold no purpose. Beyond that, many are seen as dangerous, just as kundalini rising when one is not ready is seen as dangerous to the nervous system. The only religious system that I am aware of that condones this is some native American tribes and their use of peyote.

    Having said all that, I also believe in many other worlds we are unaware of. There are countless other beings that both have form and don't. Some do not need physical bodies at all, but can live entirely in astral forms. The universe is vast and at it's core is a sun known as the central sun. It is said to be the chief life-giver of the entire universe, and many millions of times larger than ours.

    All this is beyond linear time and linear space. But the problem arises as to what value this knowledge is. What value is it to know this stuff? Does it help in the individual soul's evolution? What is the purpose?

    We are here on this fire planet (called a fire planet because the internal core is still hot) to inhabit these bodies for one purpose only. That is to realise the Self - God within. Nothing more nothing less. We migrated here eons ago because the fire planet that we used to live on was cooling, and in order to have the same types of bodies, we needed a new planet. The migration was of souls, not of physical bodies. This happened under the guidance of the great Pleidian master, Lord Muruga.

    All this other knowledge is there, and can be reached via the great akashic library where the history books of the universe are written down. Great interplanetary masters can access this library and have.

    The only connection to Hinduism I know of that explains this stuff is the book 'Lemurian Scrolls' 'written' by Subramuniyaswami. This book might be of interest.

    Certainly there are vortexes on the planet. Energy vortexes where this stuff is more intense. I felt that at an ancient temple in Tamil Nadu, India, called Palani Hills.

    Of course, this is all just my opinion and others will vary. I think most of us here would suggest you stop the use of hallucinogenics though.

    Aum Namasivaya

  9. #19
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    Re: Fairytale religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    The math usually does not add up in the Christian faith, from what I have seen at least:

    1 life of sin = endless torture
    1 life of sin + some repentance and belief = endless bliss
    1 life of sin + being a dedicated monk or saint = same endless bliss

    Very disproportionate consequences from what I can see, not too much balance in the system.
    Ah, it's the belief in Jesus that balances everything out. As I mentioned in the "Christianity - Another Viewpoint" thread, Christians believe that they are condemned to die for their sins, but Jesus took their place when He died for them on the Cross. Therefore:

    1 life of sin + belief in Jesus = endless bliss

    Also the Christian God was very bloody and ruthless in the days of old, and would show up in visions, do miracles and send angels to smite armies and cities on many occasions, in plain sight. But then his mood changed, he became less active and more compassionate, turn the other cheek as it were, and also now that we have cameras and satellites to document things, he no longer appears at all like he used to, although any apparition now would have a huge effect and cause millions to convert
    Yes, in Old Testament times, God was much more violent. He struck down the sons of Aaron for getting drunk and desecrating the Sanctuary. However, after the advent of Jesus, God was much more merciful - the New Testament does not describe God as striking people down or the like.

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    Re: Fairytale religions

    On the subject of the difference between old testament and new testament God, two catholic friends of mine (brothers, in fact) were talking about a favorite voice actor of theirs, and one of them mentioned that this voice actor played only villains. The other pointed out that this actor had played the voice of God in a work titled (I think) "The bible: part one" to which the other brother replied "Yeah, part one, old testament, he was a villain".

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