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Thread: Relating With Others-From Talks With Babaji

  1. #1
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    March 2006
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    Relating With Others-From Talks With Babaji

    I felt the following discourse may help us when friction generates heat and also in general.


    What is the balance between avoiding negative emotions like anger or confronting and examining it?
    If you just avoid it, then it will not be worked out. If you avoid it by understanding the cause, then it will work out. If you express it honestly, that will lead to more confrontation. Or it may work out if the other person sees the cause. What causes it? The cause is not outside. It is within us and we don't want to accept ”it's me.”

    Is there a point where I would avoid seeing negativity in other people and not have contact with that or better to confront it?
    Not to take it in. You see a gambler. You say it's a negative thing. You can't avoid the person. You need only to avoid that desire. First confront the negativities within. Then you can honestly see the negativity in others.

    Suppose I'm at my job and someone criticizes and I respond by saying it was right. How do I keep my image of being productive and competent and still weaken my ego of individuality which is important for my sadhana?
    If you are right and you know you are right, then don't dwell in criticism. By arguing you want to prove it is right, when it is already right. If someone tells a 6- foot tall man, ”you are not really 6 feet tall,” then what will he say? We like to do these things because it feeds our negative part of life.

    If liking to tell stories of painful and tragic experiences we've had keeps our ego alive, what about liking to tell stories of devotional experiences we've had? Are we still just keeping our ego alive?
    Ego gets its strength as individuality in negative thoughts. In positive thoughts, the ego becomes sattvic (pure). Ego still exists.

    Most everyone at some point experiences extreme anger or rage. What is the best way to release that anger or rage?
    Anger is in the human nature. In this creation, humans are on the highest level and yet the most cruel creatures. No animal harms anyone with no reason except humans. We express this violence all the time in various ways. We are used to it so we don't notice it. If we learn to watch the cause of our action, then we start noticing it. In extreme rage, people lose their discrimination and become violent physically or verbally. One should learn to think before acting.

    So the best way to deal with anger is to notice the cause?
    Yes, but that does not develop until the mind is pure. To purify the mind, a disciplined and virtuous life is important.

    Is it possible to turn the mind toward positive energy and not have to find the cause, or is it necessary to root out the real cause?
    When the anger is buried down by positive life, in time it will become dormant. Why do we get angry? We defend our existence. We don't just exist; we exist with lots of desires. If any desire is obstructed, we burst with anger. So the root is not very far to dig. Just watch the rising desires and treat them as binding thoughts.

    You've said that as we do virtuous things regularly, it becomes a pattern. We can do good things often and then in a moment of anger or frustration, an act comes out and it hurts someone. That seems to stick in our mind more strongly than the good things we are doing.
    1) Good things create good samskaras. 2) Bad things create bad samskaras. In good things, the ego doesn't feel its strength of individuality as strongly as in doing bad things. If you do bad things, the ego is right there in the present. Then its memory which repeats in the past. Then its imagination of doing bad things in the future appears. If we look back in our own life, what do we remember the most? All bad things we did or people did to us. Memories of good things appear as if veiled by fog.

    The Gita talks about not reacting to people with cruel and abusive, harsh speech. How to create the equanimity of mind not to react?
    Very, very, very hard. But not impossible. You try your best. In the process of trying, you start understanding what causes that reaction. The more you understand this cause, the less you react.

    In the Gita it says to speak truthfully, to relate what we have seen, heard and experienced. Because everyone is governed by his or her egos, it's impossible. For example, after World War II, growing up in Austria, people would not speak of what had been done to Jews, gypsies, or homosexuals. In India, the same is true with people of lower caste. It's easy to see what is happening when you come from outside. But those involved are not seeing, hearing or experiencing it.
    You know the cause: how our ego wants its power in all situations. This is a universal thing. All common people live this way. No country is better. The Gita is talking about those who are seeking liberation. But we forget the teachings and start thinking what is good for us. Then we defend our way of living in the world. The problem did not change after Germany up to this day. It will always exist if everyone doesn't understand the cause. What happened in Germany was never forgotten in the mind of sufferers but those people became numb and powerless.

    Sometimes we do things we feel we need to do for our own benefit and the result is that people are hurt, for example leaving a dysfunctional family. How do we discriminate or justify or how does it fit in with non-harming?
    We always need to stand up for our own progress. Our self-development is the most important part of this life. But in this process, we cannot separate our family, friends, teachers and others. They also help us either by doing good or bad things. Life is for learning. We learn by experiencing good or bad things.

    Yesterday, when a 7-8 year old boy asked 'how come you know so much?' you said to 'listen to your parents and teachers.' Does that still apply when the boy is 14-16 years old?
    Did you ever notice how much we listen? If an astrologer says you will live to be 60 years of age, you will always remember it because you listened to it with elephant ears. So what we listen to we remember. Listening is the most important thing for one's self-development. If we listen honestly, then we can reflect on it. Then only our intellect can discriminate right or wrong.

    Sometimes in speaking the truth, the words aren't pleasant and are offensive. Is it better to speak the truth of a situation or to avoid speaking anything that may be taken to be offensive?
    It depends how the person uses words in speaking the truth. If the person acts superior and says something: ”this is wrong; it should be like this.” You spoke straight but forgot about your ego that is putting itself in a superior position. If you tell the truth in more compromising language, then it will not hurt the feelings of the other person.

    If we see two people in a conversation and someone is getting hurt, as a third party, how can one decide whether to get involved to help the situation?
    If you know them, then you can do that. If you do it to unknown people, they both will attack you because you are trying to poke your nose in someone else's affairs. You can ask them about giving your suggestions.

    What is the best practice for controlling a critical mind and a critical tongue? The tongue is easy to control, but the mind is hard to control. Why is one critical of others? It is our own fear. We are defending ourselves by attacking others. Offensive defense. You hit before one tries to hit you. The tongue doesn't function independently. The critical mind expresses itself by critical words.

    © 1999 Sri Rama Publishing

    Other topics from Babaji:
    Last edited by atanu; 11 December 2009 at 05:16 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  2. #2
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    September 2007
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    Re: Relating With Others-From Talks With Babaji

    Vanakkam Atanu:

    There is a lot of good down to earth advice here. Now if I could just remember some of it as I go through my hectic days...

    Aum namasivaya

  3. #3
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    Re: Relating With Others-From Talks With Babaji

    hariḥ oṁ


    Perhaps anger can be turned into tool? The 101st kārikā of the vijñāna bhairava says,

    kāma-krodha-lobha-moha-mada mātsarya-gocare|
    buddhiṃ nistimitāṃ krtvā tat-tattvam-avaśișyate||
    this says,
    If one makes ones's mind stable in the various states of desire, anger, greed, delusion, intoxication or envy, then the Reality alone will remain which is underlying them.

    The instruction is to focus one's awareness via the intellect evenly on the emotion or tendencies that are rising. But here is the technique.

    One maintains evenness or niṣṭhā¹, (steady) without agitation at the point where the excitement ( of those emotions) rises or begins, just as it is getting started. One detaches from the upward rise of anger and maintains that motionless state there.

    Svāmī lakman-jū's mentions, ' when you put your unagitated consciousness on the point of these states, the supreme Lord is revealed to you'.

    Experiment with this if you wish. In the beginning you say 'ahh! I forgot to do this', then the next time it is there, till you find this approach available to you ...


    niṣṭhā निष्ठा- firmness , steadiness , attachment , devotion , application , skill in , familiarity with , certain knowledge ; decisive.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva


  4. #4
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    Swami Chinmayananda

    Individual Perfection is the means for Total Perfection
    Swami Chinmayananda

    Mankind stands between two worlds - one dying and the other struggling to be born. What form will the new world take ? We alone can choose. We are the makers of our own world and if today the world is an ugly place, it is because we ourselves are ugly. If we cleanse our hearts, we will find that the brilliance in the world is but a reflection of the brilliance within.

    This self-cleansing becomes difficult for the average person because it is a subjective process, wherein each has to cleanse himself. Moral living, ethical standards, religious virtues and cultural values are often discussed but of the many people who talk about them, very few come to live them. Unless we decide to bring these known virtues into our own life, the world cannot be improved. Only by readjusting the inner personality can each one of us bring out a greater dynamism, cheer, and fuller love in all our contacts in society.

    Without this unfoldment of our inner beauty, the quality of life cannot be improved. Secular and material organizations are necessary; the politicians, the economists, the scientists have a great responsibility to improve the social welfare, organization of production, distribution and administration of justice and thus to improve the conditions of life in society. But the happiness of the community can be assured only when we have a healthy community. A community is healthy only when the members are healthy. If man has the positive virtues of the heart and the creative values of the intellect, his responses to the environment will be healthy and he will gain balance and joy in life.

    Individual perfection is the means for the total perfection. For this, man must regenerate himself. He must have an ideology in life by which he can individually and collectively grow to be a healthy individual. All religions are built upon such rejuvenating ideologies. They supply the higher eternal values of life to their followers and nourish them with their various techniques until each individual absorbs them into himself.

    The values that religions provide are based on eternal truths of life, and therefore are the permanent values of the changing world. The world may change, but the eternal values will always remain the same. They were good for our ancestors, they were equally good for the people in the Middle Ages and they were again found good for the communities of the last century. Surely they are good for the present century also. They are ever one and the same at all times.

    The fundamental values when practised, are capable of making man healthier to face the world outside, even if riddled with endless tragedies. If the world around him were already happy, then these values would help him enjoy the happiness intelligently. These are certain fundamental rules that govern the inner health of man, and these are called by all scriptures as "fundamental values".

    The values seem to be different. at least in emphasis in different religions and a student who studies various religions may find that one religion emphasizes one set of ideals and another religion.a different set of ideals. Buddhism asserts one maxim, Hinduism another, Islam and Christianity yet another. But if one closely examines the maxims, one discovers that the fundamental principle is one and the same though the language and the emphasis are different. Just as two doctors would prescribe to the same patient on separate occasions two seemingly different prescriptions for the same disease, those who understand the science of medicine would know that the prescriptions are the same, only in name are they apparently different.

    Similarly the ethical and moral values that religions prescribe are all rules of conduct by which we can develop our personality, integrity, and inward health, with which we may enjoy the world more and develop the strength and courage to meet our problems in life. It is true, no doubt, that those who live all these great values of life, will be a mere few, in inner personality who have been guiding the generations and initiating new civilizations in the world.

    The great religious masters, using their own ingenious efforts, have time and again revived the philosophical and religious values and thereby arrested the deterioration of culture. When culture deteriorates, there is an increase in barbarity and immorality in the country and its philosophy is misinterpreted leading to confusion and chaos among its people. This is more or less the sad condition of the present world. The need of the hour is to arrest forthwith the deterioration by reviving the great philosophical and religious values of life.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 21 December 2009 at 07:11 AM. Reason: To change the header
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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