Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 68

Thread: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    840
    Rep Power
    0

    Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    http://journeytozen.wordpress.com/20...htened-part-1/

    Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1
    This is quite a controversial topic. Speaking against Muhammad can cause war and blood shed that is justified by Muhammad himself. The reason for this article is not to insult muslims though it may be an insult as a by product of the context. This article was made because muslims are constantly raising Muhammad above all mankind. They make him the example to be followed. They believe that he is the one to be followed. Muhammad according to the Quran is the best of men. His Sunnah or way of life is to be emulated. This is essential to be considered muslim. So one must have firm faith in the Quran and Sunnah (Teachings and way of muhammad). To question this is heresy. Those who leave Islam are to be executed according to Muhammad himself and supposedly Allah who is considered the Lord of all the Worlds. Why such a fear based religion? If Muslims have the truth why must they implement it with violence? How come muslims quote all the time that there is no compulsion in religion, yet if a muslim decides to leave Islam they are to be executed. There have been many executions in the day of Muhammad and after him for apostasy. Is this man from Arabia truely an enlightened human being? I beg to differ and I will provide how his teachings are different then other great spiritual teachers who transcended desires. The Buddha was praised by his followers as one who is unattached to desires and emotion. Many holy men and women of India and also of Taoist China have transcended lowly desires and emotion. They became free from anger, lust, greed, and other lowly egoist desires. However, as we shall investigate Muhammad did not accomplish this. Muhammad is supposedly the Messenger of God and the most perfect man, yet he falls short from the Buddha, Taoist masters, Hindu saints among men and women, and other great spiritual leaders. What is so odd is that Muhammad claimed to be a prophet yet could not overcome desires, yet the Buddha and others never claimed to be some messenger of a King like God and was granted some heavenly knowledge that only they could hear. So why should we trust Muhammad who makes such boastful claims yet cannot back them up by excellenct character as the muslims claims he has?

    Sex is not good nor bad. It is not something that should be considered evil like the early christians. Now what is unskillfull atleast is attachment to sex. Many of us (men and women) have attachment to sex. The Buddha and others taught how to detached from these earthly attachments. However, the self proclaimed Prophet of God himself is attached to sex.

    Quoting from Sahih Bukhari (the most authentic hadith collection of Sunni Islam) we see that Muhammad was a man of lust. He has sex with all of his wives in one night. Not only that but it states that he takes one bath. Muhammad was considered to have great strength to do this. Supposedly Allah gave him this strength to have sex with all these women in one night. Having 11 wives (while other muslim men can only have 4) Muhammad had sex with them all. Usually what would occur is that Muhammad would visit his wives by turns, due to the injunctions of the Quran. So one day he would be with Aisha, and another day he would be with Hafsa and so on. However, in this hadith below he decides to be “equal” to all his wives for one day by having sex with them all. We must wonder if he even had time for foreplay? Hopefully he did and not just lepted on them like animals, however that is basically what the hadith implies.

    Narrated Qatada:
    Anas bin Malik said, “The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number.” I asked Anas, “Had the Prophet the strength for it?” Anas replied, “We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men).” And Sa’id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 5, Numbers 268)

    Other hadiths mention the same thing with the exception that his wives numbered 11. What is very odd is that the Prophet Muhammad was suppose to teach men how to live unattached to the dunya (worldly existence) they were suppose to have their sights on paradise, yet we see Muhammad allowing men to fulfill their sexual desires. So the Quran reveals that muslim men can have up to four wives. So if your married and start desiring another woman that is fine as long as you marry that woman. So when you get four and you continue to desire (because having four wives will not cause you to be unattached to lust) you still can have more women. You can get more women by having slave girls. This is permissible and acceptable. Not only this but during the time of muhammad, he made permissible mutah or (temporary marriage) which the shias still practice today. The excuse by sunnis is that Muhammad made it permissible when men were out on jihad and away from their wives. Instead of teaching them how to watch desires arise and fall and see their empty nature as the Buddha taught and other great spiritual teachers, Muhammad allowed them to have temporary marriage. Sunnis today argue with shias over this and accuse shias of prostitution. Yet sunnis have to admit that Muhammad allowed for it at one time. Even some companions like ibn Abbas believed that Muhammad never ABROGATED the permisibility of temporary marriage. However, the official sunni position is that it is abrogated and no longer allowed. There is a loophole though. Instead of having temporary marriage, you can get yourself a slave girl and have sex with her.

    Muhammad teaches men to indulge in their lust, though he does teach them in a sort of “halal” (permissible) way. But as long as man is alive feeding his desires, he will never be free from them and taste the bliss of purity. Muslims do not need to feel ashamed because their Prophet himself indulged in these desires. Even so much so that Aisha sarcastically made this statement:
    “It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire.” (Sahih Muslim vol.2 Book 8 no.3453-3454 p.748-749)

    Muhammad is said to usually only marry due to political issues. But the fact remains that Muhammad was quite known for his indulgents with many wives.

    “One day Muhammad went out looking for Zaid (Mohammed’s adopted son). Now there was a covering of hair cloth over the doorway, but the wind had lifted the covering so that the doorway was uncovered. Zaynab was in her chamber and admiration for her entered the heart of the Prophet”. (The History of al-Tabari, vol. 8, p. 4)
    It is said Muhammad saw her beautiful hair. Desire had entered his heart. As an additional note Muhammad also was the exception of the rule that a man cannot be alone with a woman who is not married or related to him. Just like he could have more than four wives, Muhammad could be alone with women. It is quite odd when this man had these desires. He later married Zaynab after his adopted son divorced her.
    Another Hadith mentioning Muhammad’s desire and love for women.

    “When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed so Allah’s Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her.” (Sahih Bukhari)

    Why did Muhammad need so many women? Why did he not be the example and teach men to not just control the desires but also to transcend them? Other people way before Muhammad was a baby, taught followers to do this. Yet Muhammad gave men rights to slave girls and up to four wives and at one time allowed temporary marriage. This same Muhammad also claimed to have many visions in which hinted at Allah’s will for him to be married to a specific woman. As we know this famous hadith:

    Narrated ‘Aisha:
    Allah’s Apostle said to me, “You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, ‘Uncover (her),’ and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), ‘If this is from Allah, then it must happen.’ Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), ‘Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), ‘If this is from Allah, then it must happen.’” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87 Number 140 see also Number 139)

    Aisha was only six at the time. They married and then later consumated the marriage when she was a girl of 9 years old (she had her menses), yet she was still playing with dolls at that age. Muslims argue that since she had her menses she was ready for marriage, yet we know this girl was still playing with dolls. Muhammad could atleast waited until Aisha grew up and stopped playing with dolls. Just because a girl has their menses doesn’t mean it is appropriate to penetrate her. This can cause harm to girls. This may sound familiar if one has heard many of the recent Mormon Cults being exposed in which the older men (sometimes over 50 as muhammad was) indulging in marriage with little girls.

    Without getting into an argument of morality about having sex with a 9 year old girl who still played with dolls, one still could ask why Muhammad needed all these women? Muslims usually make the excuse that Aisha was one of the best narrators of hadith and teachers of the Sunnah, yet this does not really cut it. Aisha was Muhammad’s favorite and despite the Quran ordering justice to all wives, some of the wives willingly gave up their turn (for muhammad’s visits) so that he could be with Aisha. This is deep favortism of Aisha, which surely caused suffering to other wives who wished they were the favorite. Even Aisha was upset at Muhammad’s love for his first wife Khadijah. This illustrate that these women suffered due to Muhammad’s favortism even though the Quran orders equal treatment to all wives. Not only this, but when Aisha once out of jealousy insulted Khadijah Muhammad became so angry (again showing his attachment to earthly desires) and struck or pushed Aisha on the chest.

    Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2127:
    Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was ”A”isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah’’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi”. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O ”A”isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi” (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.

    Muslims try to defend the actions of Muhammad by stating that the word in the hadith for strike is lahaza which can be translated as push, or slapped. Regardless if it is a push, slap, or strike Aisha herself said that it caused her pain. Not only this but it was a use of force. Even if you push a woman you will cause fear in them. There is no such stories of Buddha and other enlightened beings becoming so angry that they pushed women or men out out of anger.
    Muslims quote hadiths about controlling ones anger and Muhammad’s advice on it, yet he cannot follow his own advice in this.

    Aisha herself has pointed out many times in which she believed Muhammad was having his desires fulfilled by Allah (insinuating that he always gets what he wants).

    Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 7.570
    Narrated al-Qasim bin Muhammad:Aisha, (complaining of headache) said, “Oh, my head”! Allah’s Apostle said, “I wish that (i.e., your death) had happened while I was still living, for then I would ask Allah’s Forgiveness for you and invoke Allah for you.” Aisha said, “A likely story! By Allah, I think you want me to die; and If this should happen, you would spend the last part of the day sleeping with one of your wives!”
    Aisha said “you would spend the last part of the days sleeping with one of your wives!” She said this out of anger at the prophet muhammad. Aisha gives us a hint of how she truely felt at times about Muhammad and his desires.
    I quote again the hadith:

    “It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire.” (Sahih Muslim vol.2 Book 8 no.3453-3454 p.748-749)

    Even though Muslims try to claim that Muhammad is the best character to follow and he treated women fair and just we find a striking opposite view by Muhammad’s own words:

    O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense. (Sahih Muslim)

    Muslim scholars as I have heard state that this is due to women lacking intelligence. They say that women rule more with emotions. So in a sense despite hadiths of the Prophet saying praises for mothers and taking care of the mother more so over the father, it does not take away from the fact of his lowly opinion of women. Not only this, but justifying men having so many wives, and sex with slave girls to fulfill their desires. Women themselves do get desires, even a married woman may have desires arise for another man. Yet she cannot go out and marry more than one or have sex with a slave boy. We see the treatment of women in the parts of the world in which Shariah are practiced are mistreated. Women for Women international has exposed some of this mistreatment in Islamic africa.
    The Quran gave instructions that if a woman disobeys the husband she is to be admonished (advised) then forsake her in bed (dont share the bed with her) and if she persist you can beat her (lightly as some suggest). Regardless if it is a light hit with a stick or without a stick this is still domestic violence. It is not tolerated in many western countries. And do note that Muhammad himself did not follow the 3 fold method of (advising, forsaking in bed, then beat) instead when Aisha insulted Khadija he struck her chest as I quoted the hadith above.
    So why is Muhammad always an exception of the rule? Since he is sent from Allah and given revelation and is the final messenger, why couldnt he himself overcome his desires and passions? Why couldn’t he resist his anger? Some hadiths mention him getting so angry that his face would turn black! Other hadiths say that he would get so angry his face would turn red. We have no records of Buddha, Indian sadhus, Taoist sages, and other spiritual teachers of the eastern faiths who were considered enlightened, to becoming so angry that their face turned black or red. We never hear about them fulfilling their desires by just getting more wives or taking slave girls. We see them transcending these desires and passions. This is what enlightenment is. It is our pure unadulterated state of being beyond name and form, yet Muhammad did not embody this.
    This is just a short introduction to an upcoming set of articles questioning Muhammad’s enlightenment or great character.

    Remember according to Islam Muhammad’s character is the best and to question it is a heresy. Be careful not to insult him because Muhammad himself approved of killing if he is insulted. Yet muslims like to quote hadiths in which Muhammad was merciful when people insulted him and polite when people insulted him, yet just because we quote instances that he forgave offenders doesn’t make it right that at other times he allowed killing people just because they insulted him as we can see from this horrific hadith below:

    Abu Dawood (4361) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that a blind man had a freed concubine (umm walad) who used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and say bad things about him. He told her not to do that but she did not stop, and he rebuked her but she did not heed him. One night, when she started to say bad things about the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and insult him, he took a short sword or dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it and killed her. The following morning that was mentioned to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He called the people together and said, “I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right over him that he should stand up.” The blind man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I am the one who did it; she used to insult you and say bad things about you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not give up her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was kind to me. Last night she began to insult you and say bad things about you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Bear witness, there is no blood money due for her.”
    (Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 3655)

    What was the woman’s crime? Her crime was that she insulted the Prophet Muhammad. This muslim believer told her to stop but she persisted and so he takes actions into his own hands and kills her for her verbal abuse. This is more worse than communism. Imagine that all those who insulted former president bush were to be killed! There would be mass murder! Yet a woman’s insult and persistance caused her to lose her life because Muhammad’s character shall not be questioned. It reminds me of when we were children and we would fight other kids because they would say “your moma” jokes. But this is no kidding matter this is a matter of collective insanity.
    Please look foward to part 2. Any comments or suggestions are accepted.
    -Juan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    63
    Posts
    3,218
    Rep Power
    4728

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Welcome back, SS !

    This thread is quite informative as you are quoting authentic sources to prove your point.

    Though, Satay may say that as there is no Muslim here to defend, this thread is out of place. But I request Satay to allow this thread so that we may have authentic understanding of such things. As Muslims are in habit of attacking us, we also should know the reality behind their unquestionable Muhammad & the book given by him. Many among us may be curious to know.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    840
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Namaste,

    Thank you devotee. I think it is good that we understand the truth of Muhammad so that when we do encounter muslims who are claiming Muhammad is the best of mankind and we must follow him or forever be in hell, we can understand their lack of evidence and the cynicalness of muhammad himself

  4. #4

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Hadith was written efter Muhammeds death. Its what people remembered him doing and saying. Already there its questionable. And do you understand the under lying purpose of his acitons? Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his own son (later stopped by an angel). Jesus used violence to drive out the money changers from the temple in Jerusalem. Krishna “kind of” participated in the Kurukshetra war (mass murder). Shirdi Sai Baba had a stick he used to both threaten and beat people with. And the list goes on… Sure we can focus on bad sources and seek out what we find wrong… (this is can be done and is done to every religion).

    Here is a quote from Sathya Sai Baba. I think some might find it interesting. I wanted to post this for some time. If you read the Quran with a just a twist of spiritual light you will find it very deep.

    All founders of religions have heard this impersonal Voice of God revealing the Atma that activates the entire Creation. Just as the Vedas were 'heard' and propagated as 'heard' (Shruti), the Quran too was 'heard' by Hazrath Muhammad. The Quran has Salat and Zakat as the two eyes. Salat means prayer; Zakat means charity. Those who consider charity as a high duty and elevate their consciousness through prayers and continuous meditation on God are Muslims. Islam is a word which denotes not a particular religion but a state of mind, the state of total surrender to the Will of God. Islam means dedication, surrender, peace, tranquility.”

    Islam denotes the social community whose members have achieved supreme peace through surrender to the All-Merciful, All-Powerful God and who have vowed to live in peace with their fellowmen. Later, it came to be applied to communities that considered themselves separate and different and so hostile to the rest. Islam taught something higher. It directed attention to the One in the Many, the Unity in Diversity and led people to the Reality named God.” (sss16-14)

    Now if Muhammed was chosen to receive the Quran, was that because he was a bad person?

    If he was so bad (and illitterat) how could he produce the Quran and thus inspire so many muslim saints that came after? Its an impossible equation.

    And I might as well ad this:

    "Many talk from platforms on Hinduism and Sanatana faith but very few of them have understood the genuine core. Sanatana Dharma is the very basis of living. It deals with the total personality. It embraces all faiths and has established worldwide influence. Sanatana means Eternal. Only a Dharma which can win Universal acceptance can be named Sanatana… It is the primal essence of all faiths. It is the essence of all the messages the prophets proclaimed. It is welcomed by all mankind, for it welcomes all mankind. It is therefore to be deplored that some Indians boast selfishly, "Sanatana Dharma is our religion."
    Just as atomic science developed in one country and later spread to other countries, the Sanatana faith, developed in India and spread to other countries. Even a material process like atomic science cannot be held down in one place; in the same manner, this spiritual science too has spread all over the wide world
    ." (sss14-55)
    “There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done.” (sss20-15)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    840
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Namaste,

    Ekanta Sunni Muslims are the majority of Muslims on the planet. What I have quoted are all authentic. See in the science of Hadith there are ways of grading hadith. I chose many of those in which are indisputable by the ijma (consensus of Islamic scholars). If a modern day muslim wants to use the excuse that hadith were made after Muhammad then they have rejected the Consensus of the Scholars (Which constitutes apostacy in Sunni Islam) not only that but it would be clear rejection of the Sunnah of Muhammad which is apostacy.

    See a lot of modern day muslims who do not know much about their religion say they dont follow hadith because hadith were written after Muhammad (as a side note do note that much of Islam including the Quran was passed down orally just like hadith so to doubt that we must doubt the Quran since it was compiled as an entire collection (book) after the death of Muhammad), yet these same muslims are in the Masjid (mosque) praying their prayers, placing hands either on the chest, below the naval, just beneath the chest or with their arms at their sides, and when they are in Tashahud (testification of faith during the prayer) they raise their finger a certain way, some circle their finger, others move it up and down.

    Where do they get all this from? It comes directly from the Hadith in the sunni collection. Not only this but if you take the Quran without any commentary you will just get one gigantic jumbled mess. So how do you understand it? You use the Hadith. That is the only way. The scholars of Sunni Islam have agreed on using hadith. Now some clever muslims may say : (those hadith that I quoted are Mawdoo (fabricated) , daef (weak) etc.) , but the surprise is I quoted all those that were accepted by the Scholars of Hadith (muhaditheen) to be correct hadith on the level of hasan (good), sahih (authentic).

    So if you Ekanta or any muslim can prove that these hadith were not accepted by the Scholars of Hadith then perhaps you have a damn good argument. Otherwise your just blowing on a gaping wound.

    Sanatana Dharma may be all embracing (I do not consider myself a hindu or anything), but that doesnt mean if someone comes to me saying Muhammad is the guy to be emulated and followed, that I should keep my mouth shut and not point out the destructive reality of his nature and that of Islam. I know how Islam has corrupted many people minds and also many converts to Islam. A muslim can practice and that is fine, but I am not going to go around telling everyone that the paths are equal. Because if a person truely emulates Muhammad they will truely have a horrific life.



    As far as abraham and other such things, I find Islam, christianity, and Judaism to be a bunch of fairytales so it doesnt bother me.

    OM
    Last edited by Spiritualseeker; 18 December 2009 at 11:03 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    840
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    http://journeytozen.wordpress.com/20...htened-part-2/

    Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 2
    Continuing we see that the man who claimed to be sent by God to all of mankind is a man of many contradictions. He does not embody the spirit of a true spiritual teacher. Sure if we cite only those hadith in which the Prophet Muhammad was shown to be compassionate and giving advice to harmonious living then we could see him as a upright teacher. The problem is that we have to look at the whole picture and not just parts. So we must question many of the contradictions in his character. Sometimes he could be compassionate and charming and other times angry. Even someone like Hitler despite the crimes he has committed against humanity, surely had his moments of humanity and compassion, but if we look at the whole we realize that Hitler was insane and unfit to rule.

    Muslims love to quote hadith showing Muhammad as a peaceful person only fighting against barbaric pagans who wished to kill him. Many of times muslims do not cite the hadiths in which Muhammad clearly shows barbaric force himself. Narrated below is a hadith about the tribe of Banu Qurayza a jewish tribe that had a pact with the muslims. They failed to support the muslims so Muhammad agreed to Sa’d judgement that the men are to be killed and women and children to be taken captives:

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 448:

    Narrated ‘Aisha:
    Sad was wounded on the day of Khandaq (i.e. Trench) when a man from Quraish, called Hibban bin Al-’Araqa hit him (with an arrow). The man was Hibban bin Qais from (the tribe of) Bani Mais bin ‘Amir bin Lu’ai who shot an arrow at Sad’s medial arm vein (or main artery of the arm). The Prophet pitched a tent (for Sad) in the Mosque so that he might be near to the Prophet to visit. When the Prophet returned from the (battle) of Al-Khandaq (i.e. Trench) and laid down his arms and took a bath Gabriel came to him while he (i.e. Gabriel) was shaking the dust off his head, and said, “You have laid down the arms?” By Allah, I have not laid them down. Go out to them (to attack them).” The Prophet said, “Where?” Gabriel pointed towards Bani Quraiza. So Allah’s Apostle went to them (i.e. Banu Quraiza) (i.e. besieged them). They then surrendered to the Prophet’s judgment but he directed them to Sad to give his verdict concerning them. Sa’d said, “I give my judgment that their men should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed.”

    Now muslims usually defend Muhammad in this hadith in two ways. Firstly they say that Muhammad gave the judgement to Sa’d who ruled according to the “Torah” that the men should be killed and the women and children are to be taken as captives. The second defense of Muhammad is that Banu Qurayza violated the treaty with the muslims.

    To response to the first response we only need to highlight that Muhammad said these words in reponse to Sa’d judgement as is demonstrated here:

    Book 019, Number 4368:
    It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Sa’id al-Khudri who said: The people of Banu Quraiza surrendered accepting the decision of Sa’d b. Mu’adh about them. Accordingly, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent for Sa’d who came to him riding a donkey. When he approached the mosque, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said to the Ansar: Stand up to receive your chieftain. Then he said (to Sa’d): These people have surrendered accepting your decision. He (Sa’d) said: “You will kill their fighters and capture their women and children.” (Hearing this), the Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: “You have adjudged by the command of God.”(emphasis added)
    Muhammad clearly claimed that Sa’d ruled and judged the same as that of Allah. So this shows he agreed with the ruling.

    As far as the second defense that Banu Qurayza violated the treaty, perhaps we could accept this, but let me ask a question. How did the prophet judge who was guilty and who was not? Obviously the women and children who were taken captive were not at fault. Yet they became slaves to the muslims. Not only this but do you think all men were responsible? How did Muhammad judge who was a man and who was a child?

    The answer is those boys in banu Qurayza who had pubic hair were considered men whereas those with no pubic hair were considered boys. So Muhammad allowed the slaughter of even people who had just entered puberty as they had to check their pubic hair which shows that it was difficult to tell who was an adult! Not only this but how could all the men be responsible for violating the treaty? Thats as if we blame all the muslims for 9-11. Here is the hadith to prove that the men were tested to see if they had pubic hair:

    Sunan Abu-Dawud-Book 38, No. 4390 Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:
    “I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubic hair) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.”

    Around 700 people died in this incident, in which Muhammad declared that Allah had judged the same. This is what in modern times we would call a mass slaughter. Just imagine if the government of the United States decided to gather up all the muslims and take the women and children as captives and slaughter the men and to check the boys to see if they have pubic hair for if they do they are considered men and shall be killed. This would be extremism. Yet Muhammad allowed this for Banu Qurayza.

    How can one claim to be a Prophet of God and guided by God yet allow the verdict and express that God himself approves the slaughter of 700 people and take the women and children captive.
    We see that the hadith of Muhammad as charming and peaceful do not go together with these other hadiths. Once again we must look at the picture as a whole. We cant just muhammad just by a hadith of him smiling or being polite to non believers. We have to investigate piece by piece and to see if this Prophet Muhammad was really an ideal character for mankind.

    Despite there being no compulsion in religion as the Quran mentions, there is much contradiction between the view of Muhammad and his followers and that of the verse on compulsion in religion. According to Islam if a person who is a muslim decides to leave islam that person is to be executed. According to hadith it states:

    Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Sahih al-bukhari)

    In addition the Prophet Muhammad states:

    “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a person who bears witness that there is no god but Allaah and that I am the Messenger of Allaah except in three cases: a life for a life, a previously-married person who commits adultery, and one who leaves Islam and forsakes the jamaa’ah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim.
    Here is a link to a very famous Scholar of Islam-Shaykh Saalih al-Munajid
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/12406

    The scholar goes on to defend the ruling of Muhammad. So there is no compulsion in religion in the sense that you cannot force a jew and christian to become Muslim, but if a Muslim decides to leave Islam and disbelievers then that person is to be executed so that people will take Islam seriously and accept the vows and faith seriously. It makes me wonder about people raised in muslim families who feel discontented with their religion yet they are forced to remain within it because the vows they were raised with are all too important to break and thus if they do break it it is their head quite literally. Again we must ask why are is the religion of Islam so afraid of losing Muslims that they have to act in violence? If you insult the prophet Muhammad, you are to be killed. If you are to leave Islam you are to be killed! This is a fear based religion which can be seen clearly. Muslims cannot just leave and let live, instead it is brute force that brings their intellectual prisons to masses of people.

    We can take this even further in terms of no compulsion in religion. In offensive Jihad when the Islamic state is conquering lands of disbelievers the Jews and christians have 3 choices. They can become Muslim and thus will be treated like muslims (meaning they will have safety and security as muslims), or they can remain jews and christians but pay jizya (a tax that gives them lower class citizenship-similar to the caste system and have protection), or they can choose to simply fight the invaders.

    Now what about non jews and christians? What about the Hindus, buddhist, Taoist and others? Can they pay jizya (the tax) and be protected?
    The answer is no. They have two choices either convert or fight. And there is no compulsion in religion? Luckily when the Taliban were in power in Afghanistan they accepted Jizya from Hindus. They probably did that because of their hanafi affiliation (Hanafi is a school of law and in that school of law it allows non jews and christians to pay jizya). However, from Islamic point of view jizya is only taken from Jews and christians. This ofcourse is outside of the Arabian peninsula, because Muhammad the great peace prophet was quite stern when it came to presence of Jews and Christians in the arabian peninsula as we can see from this hadith:
    Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, “Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, respect and give gifts to the foreign delegates as you have seen me dealing with them.” I forgot the third (order)” (Ya’qub bin Muhammad said, “I asked Al-Mughira bin ‘Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said, ‘It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yama-ma and Yemen.” Ya’qub added, “And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.”) (Sahih al-Bukhari)

    The Quran itself supports offensive jihad as is clearly stated in Surah 9 verse 29:
    “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”
    Shaykh Munajid states:
    Jihad talab means attacking the kuffaar in their own lands until they become Muslim or pay the jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have been commanded to fight the people until they bear witness that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, and establish regular prayer, and pay zakaah. If they do that, then they have protected their blood and their wealth from me, except in cases decreed by Islamic law, and their reckoning with be with Allaah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 25; Muslim, 20.
    Here is the link to the fatwa: http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/26125/offensive%20jihad

    Clearly we see that Muhammad was not always the charming peace loving and gentle man as many muslims try to claim. We will investigate further in part 3 of these series of articles.

    This entry was posted on December 18, 2009 at 4:45 pm and
    Last edited by Spiritualseeker; 18 December 2009 at 12:44 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    November 2009
    Location
    united states
    Age
    62
    Posts
    121
    Rep Power
    67

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    I think it is important to remember that Muhammad, peace be upon him, was not here to teach/obtain enlightenment, but how to be in a relationship with the Divine. There is a difference. Most of us may never achieve nirvana, but we can all be in a relationship with God. 99.9% of us will never be perfect and Muhammad, peace be upon him, helps God convey the message that God may not expect perfection, but does expect a pious intention and effort.

    Not every prophet and/or messenger has the same goals Buddha had. Buddha did not seek to a relationship with God, but an end to suffering. Buddha sought to be free of suffering, his ultimate reason for obtaining enlightenment had nothing to do with a relationship with God.

    Islam teaches suffering is a tool God uses to teach us and to help us live with God's will as our desire versus our own. Buddha was not thinking of God's desires; he was trying to find a way to stop hurting. There is a story told by a guru that I can't remember word for word, but this was the gist of it: A man goes to his guru and says, "I just won a ton of gold, isn't that great?" The guru says, "We'll see." The next day the man says, "Someone stole all gold, isn't that awful?" The guru says, "We'll see." The man comes back the next day and says, "Someone found my gold, isn't that great?" The guru says, "We'll see." The man comes back the next day and says, "The hospital burned down, isn't that awful?" The guru says, "We'll see." The man comes back the next day and says, "Someone is collecting money to build a new hospital, isn't that great?". And the guru says.... by now you get the point. How much money will the man donate to rebuilding the hospital? Will a natural disaster occur and wipe out the half-built building? Will the community invent something like cement to make the next hospital sturdier or inflammable?

    Regarding celibacy, celibacy has to do with enlightenment not a relationship with God. It helps a person lose both desire and attachment to the world. Part of a marriage's expression of love is sex. Muhammad was not teaching how to give up attachment to the world. Not even the mystics of Islam aim to disconnect from this world. It is possible to know God intimately without being celibate. Islamic teaching is about experiencing God and being spiritually disciplined. God comes before everything else to those who practice the goals of Islam.

    Culturally, men owned women and patriarchy prevailed long before Muhammad arrived on the scene. Extra-marital sex was not an issue in the Old Testament. Ishmael and Isaac are one one example. Not every religion requires celibacy or monogamy in order to obtain an intimate relationship with God. Polygamy within Islam is much different than polygamy in pre-Islamic times. A man can only take a second wife if they will be treated completely equally. That is nearly impossible to do. As for slaves being concubines of Muslim men, part of Muhammad's message was about setting slaves free and treating them with dignity and respect.

    Also, remember the role of men and women in the days of Muhammad meant many widows and orphans. The society needed some way to operate so that widows and orphans would be protected by the men who society gave that responsibility to. The caste system is another example of a society trying to figure out the roles of its citizens.

    Regarding who the prophet had sex with, unless we witnessed it, it is all here-say. I know we all think we have evidence and details about who the prophet had sex and we think we have the unmistakable proof, but we also know hadith are not infallible. Consider for a moment that Aisha never bore his children. Perhaps at some point the marriage was consummated, but it is all speculation since we cannot name the date and time it happened. Islamic teachings forbid gossip and backstabbing and when we debate some of these things we're not defending truth necessarily, but only our interpretation of it. How much bad karma do we accumulate by gossiping and accusing without evidence?

    And though sahih hadith are the most reliable, does it make them infallible in every respect? I find it interesting that you support your argument with hadith you claim are infallible while trying to prove the prophet, Muhammad, and his followers are shady characters full of flaws.

    Muhammad was not the only messenger of God to get angry. Jesus got angry. Buddha worked to be free of anger, but only because anger causes suffering. The prophet, Muhammad, like many other prophets, got very angry at unjustness. If anything, many prophets bring a message of condemnation when a society is going astray. When the oppressors start taking over and people get caught up in things like greed, oppression and prejudice, etc., messengers come so that God can make the point that people need to re-evaluate and get back on the right track. And also you can find as many hadith and ayat to support Muhammad being a messenger of compassion and mercy as you can to support your own opinions of him.

    In Islam, you can't pick a fight. You can only fight in self-defense. Quran never says lets go around starting wars. That is a complete distortion of Quranic teaching.

    When you truly take the time to contemplate and consider Quran in its entirety, it is a lesson on free will and karma. It teaches me that I am responsible for my karma; that means I have to constantly think before I act. Christians say Jesus frees them as their savior and he was sacrificed to atone for their sins. Muhammad's message reminds us that we are responsible for our own deeds.

    There are too many people (both Muslim and non-Muslim) who want quick easy answers and solutions from a religion, but Islam is not about that. You can't just pick out an ayat or hadith and magically transform it into your infallible proof.

    I believe Quran tells people to surrender to God and to value nothing more than surrendering to God. Surrendering to God is not enlightenment or freedom from suffering. Muhammad shows us that it is best to constantly aspire to seeking God and serving God.

    Muhammad merged with God, but in a way very different than Buddha's. It seems unfair to judge Muhammad by your own version of what enlightenment is or isn't. There are many ways to merge with the Divine.

    No religion can be understood in a few hours. Most of them take a lifetime to understand. I think you proved Muhammad was not enlightened in the same way Buddha was, but Muhammad was a human being who dedicated his life to God. He didn't seek freedom from suffering. He didn't claim he was perfect. He didn't claim he was here to take away all our problems. He only gave us a message from God that became Quran.

    One thing that has happened to Buddha and Christ, peace be upon them both, is that they are commonly thought of as God itself...as Brahma in the flesh. Islam doesn't say that about Muhammad. Muhammad's human story is an important part of how God teaches through Islam.

    Saying Muhammad wasn't enlightened is like saying Ganesha really has an elephant's head or Kali is no different than a blood thirsty vampire. It is also judging someone by your own interpretation of enlightenment.

    One more bit of advice. Whenever you lump all person's into one ruling, you are creating fertile ground for prejudice and discrimination. Not all Muslims are one way or another. You must take it on an individual basis. Sure its a lot easier to say all Muslims say or believe a certain thing, but it is not true. You can only know that when you treat people as people.

    Just as all Americans are not alike and all countries are not alike and all dogs are not alike and not all Hindus are not alike...not all Muslims are alike either. There is great diversity within Islam because we are people not clones.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    November 2009
    Location
    united states
    Age
    62
    Posts
    121
    Rep Power
    67

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Namaste,

    Any Muslim that tells you that is not practicing the true teachings of Islam. Quran states a person's religion is chosen by God so how can you be criticized for practicing the religion God chose for you? Also Quran states that all the prophets are equal, none are above the other. But just as some Christians say "What would Jesus do?"; others say "What would Muhammad do?"

    I'm sorry that Muslims have tried to coerce you. I know I never would.

    Many Blessings Upon You...
    HF


    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritualseeker View Post
    Namaste,

    Thank you devotee. I think it is good that we understand the truth of Muhammad so that when we do encounter muslims who are claiming Muhammad is the best of mankind and we must follow him or forever be in hell, we can understand their lack of evidence and the cynicalness of muhammad himself

  9. #9
    Join Date
    November 2009
    Location
    united states
    Age
    62
    Posts
    121
    Rep Power
    67

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Namaste,

    Thank you so very much for sharing that quote and for your tolerance. Many people who are so sure Muslims are the most intolerant humans on earth are themselves guilty of the same type of intolerance.

    When will we all put our swords down (including the sharp words we use to fight each other with) and discover peaceful brotherhood and sisterhood.

    With Love,
    HF

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekanta View Post
    Hadith was written efter Muhammeds death. Its what people remembered him doing and saying. Already there its questionable. And do you understand the under lying purpose of his acitons? Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his own son (later stopped by an angel). Jesus used violence to drive out the money changers from the temple in Jerusalem. Krishna “kind of” participated in the Kurukshetra war (mass murder). Shirdi Sai Baba had a stick he used to both threaten and beat people with. And the list goes on… Sure we can focus on bad sources and seek out what we find wrong… (this is can be done and is done to every religion).

    Here is a quote from Sathya Sai Baba. I think some might find it interesting. I wanted to post this for some time. If you read the Quran with a just a twist of spiritual light you will find it very deep.

    All founders of religions have heard this impersonal Voice of God revealing the Atma that activates the entire Creation. Just as the Vedas were 'heard' and propagated as 'heard' (Shruti), the Quran too was 'heard' by Hazrath Muhammad. The Quran has Salat and Zakat as the two eyes. Salat means prayer; Zakat means charity. Those who consider charity as a high duty and elevate their consciousness through prayers and continuous meditation on God are Muslims. Islam is a word which denotes not a particular religion but a state of mind, the state of total surrender to the Will of God. Islam means dedication, surrender, peace, tranquility.”

    Islam denotes the social community whose members have achieved supreme peace through surrender to the All-Merciful, All-Powerful God and who have vowed to live in peace with their fellowmen. Later, it came to be applied to communities that considered themselves separate and different and so hostile to the rest. Islam taught something higher. It directed attention to the One in the Many, the Unity in Diversity and led people to the Reality named God.” (sss16-14)

    Now if Muhammed was chosen to receive the Quran, was that because he was a bad person?

    If he was so bad (and illitterat) how could he produce the Quran and thus inspire so many muslim saints that came after? Its an impossible equation.

    And I might as well ad this:

    "Many talk from platforms on Hinduism and Sanatana faith but very few of them have understood the genuine core. Sanatana Dharma is the very basis of living. It deals with the total personality. It embraces all faiths and has established worldwide influence. Sanatana means Eternal. Only a Dharma which can win Universal acceptance can be named Sanatana… It is the primal essence of all faiths. It is the essence of all the messages the prophets proclaimed. It is welcomed by all mankind, for it welcomes all mankind. It is therefore to be deplored that some Indians boast selfishly, "Sanatana Dharma is our religion."
    Just as atomic science developed in one country and later spread to other countries, the Sanatana faith, developed in India and spread to other countries. Even a material process like atomic science cannot be held down in one place; in the same manner, this spiritual science too has spread all over the wide world
    ." (sss14-55)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    37
    Posts
    840
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    I think it is important to remember that Muhammad, peace be upon him, was not here to teach/obtain enlightenment, but how to be in a relationship with the Divine. There is a difference. Most of us may never achieve nirvana, but we can all be in a relationship with God. 99.9% of us will never be perfect and Muhammad, peace be upon him, helps God convey the message that God may not expect perfection, but does expect a pious intention and effort.
    Thank you for your response. Firstly we know that Enlightenment is our highest evolution. It is our true Nature. It is our ever oneness with the One Life. Muhammad did not have this. He according to the Quran is the best of all mankind. He is better than any prophet. He is the example to be followed. I think in my post I clearly demonstrated his fallacy, if you wish you could address the points of the article.

    Not every prophet and/or messenger has the same goals Buddha had. Buddha did not seek to a relationship with God, but an end to suffering. Buddha sought to be free of suffering, his ultimate reason for obtaining enlightenment had nothing to do with a relationship with God.
    What was Muhammad's mission? He was to deliver the Quran and give guidance to ALL OF MANKIND. Not just a select few. Since he is the example to be followed he should be upright and have a noble character, yet we find him not even following some of his own advice. I would love for you to address some of that which was in the article and tell us if you defend it and your views on it.

    Islam teaches suffering is a tool God uses to teach us and to help us live with God's will as our desire versus our own. Buddha was not thinking of God's desires; he was trying to find a way to stop hurting. There is a story told by a guru that I can't remember word for word, but this was the gist of it: A man goes to his guru and says, "I just won a ton of gold, isn't that great?" The guru says, "We'll see." The next day the man says, "Someone stole all gold, isn't that awful?" The guru says, "We'll see." The man comes back the next day and says, "Someone found my gold, isn't that great?" The guru says, "We'll see." The man comes back the next day and says, "The hospital burned down, isn't that awful?" The guru says, "We'll see." The man comes back the next day and says, "Someone is collecting money to build a new hospital, isn't that great?". And the guru says.... by now you get the point. How much money will the man donate to rebuilding the hospital? Will a natural disaster occur and wipe out the half-built building? Will the community invent something like cement to make the next hospital sturdier or inflammable?
    Muhammad is suppose to be bringing people to God, yet his teachings and way contradict eachother. I have shown how sometimes he would get so angry which shows that he truely did not have transcendence beyond his desires. A Prophet Sent from God should be upright especially if you are asking the entire world to emulate him, yet Muhammad again and again shows us some ugly characteristics. Like I mentioned in the article you cannot just take certain parts of his life, such as when he was nice and friendly and leave out the times when he gave verdict for genocide, oe became so anger, or even when he struck Aisha on the chest.

    Regarding celibacy, celibacy has to do with enlightenment not a relationship with God. It helps a person lose both desire and attachment to the world. Part of a marriage's expression of love is sex. Muhammad was not teaching how to give up attachment to the world. Not even the mystics of Islam aim to disconnect from this world. It is possible to know God intimately without being celibate. Islamic teaching is about experiencing God and being spiritually disciplined. God comes before everything else to those who practice the goals of Islam.
    My article was in no ways a means to say that celibacy is the way. What was intended is to show Muhammad's LUST. He had lust. He made muslim followers only have 4 wives and he himself took 11. Muslims say that is an exception for Muhammad and some other prophets. Again Muhammad was able to be alone with a woman whereas his followers could not. I mentioned clearly in the article that sex is neither bad nor good, but attachment to it is bad. How can we ever evolve if we are attached to our desires? That is what the spiritual path is suppose to guide us to. So muslim men can fulfill unquenching desires by having four wives, and also having sex with slave girls whereas the muslim women cannot? How is Muhammad the best of all mankind when people before him and after him have transcended desires and yet he is stuck with his anger, violence, and sex? One thing I did not mention in the article is that Muhammad also selected a female from the tribe of Banu Qurayza, but she declined because she was too in love with judaism. The point is, muhammad could just not quench his desires for women.

    I am a married man and Imagine if i dont work with my desires I will be cheating on my wife constantly, or I can become muslim and get more wives and when I am not satisfied I can have a lot of sex with slave girls. This is not spirituality this is attachment to the body. God is beyond form.

    Culturally, men owned women and patriarchy prevailed long before Muhammad arrived on the scene. Extra-marital sex was not an issue in the Old Testament. Ishmael and Isaac are one one example. Not every religion requires celibacy or monogamy in order to obtain an intimate relationship with God. Polygamy within Islam is much different than polygamy in pre-Islamic times. A man can only take a second wife if they will be treated completely equally. That is nearly impossible to do. As for slaves being concubines of Muslim men, part of Muhammad's message was about setting slaves free and treating them with dignity and respect.
    Heartfully I really respect that you responded but I have to politely tell you that the last sentence you said is stretching the truth. Yes Muhammad is quoted in some hadith to advise his companions to be respectful to their slaves and dress them with their cloths and feed them with their food, yet at the same time Muhammad allowed sex slaves. Even during Muhammad's last pilgrimage some companions were insulting Ali ibn Abu Talib because he had taken a slave from an expedition (whereas the other militants were told to wait until later to have the booty of war) and Ali had sex with the slave. When word got back to Muhammad, Muhammad praised Ali for his character. The point is having girl slaves for sex is just fine. If you are telling me Muhammad encouraged freeing of slaves, you are correct in a few hadith, however did you not know that Muhammad himself had a slave?

    We need to look at the whole picture.

    Also, remember the role of men and women in the days of Muhammad meant many widows and orphans. The society needed some way to operate so that widows and orphans would be protected by the men who society gave that responsibility to. The caste system is another example of a society trying to figure out the roles of its citizens.
    This is a common argument yet we see clearly that Muhammad himself was fond of many women not just for political reason but for desires. The Quran says treat wives equally yet in article part 1 I showed how not even Muhammad (the SEAL OF ALL PROPHETS) himself could treat his wives equally.

    Regarding who the prophet had sex with, unless we witnessed it, it is all here-say. I know we all think we have evidence and details about who the prophet had sex and we think we have the unmistakable proof, but we also know hadith are not infallible. Consider for a moment that Aisha never bore his children. Perhaps at some point the marriage was consummated, but it is all speculation since we cannot name the date and time it happened. Islamic teachings forbid gossip and backstabbing and when we debate some of these things we're not defending truth necessarily, but only our interpretation of it. How much bad karma do we accumulate by gossiping and accusing without evidence?
    If you refer above to my response to Ekanta you can see what hadith I used and how the hadith I used are authentic. If you want to dispute their authenticity then you need to bring evidence that the consensus of Scholars has been wrong for 1400 years. I am still waiting for muslims to do that instead of always saying "hadith are infallible". The scholars of hadith knew hadith were fallible that is why they devoloped the Science of Hadith. So when the scholars agree to the authenticity of a hadith you should agree also unless you have some new knowledge that the Consensus (which is called ijma in islam) was wrong all along. This would mean that Islam needs a reformation.

    And though sahih hadith are the most reliable, does it make them infallible in every respect? I find it interesting that you support your argument with hadith you claim are infallible while trying to prove the prophet, Muhammad, and his followers are shady characters full of flaws.
    Which hadith are fallible? They are the hadith that are lone narrations (though sometimes used), ghareeb (strange but sometimes accepted), mawdoo (fabricated), and daef (weak). The hadiths I based my articles on are all authentic and the Consensus of the Scholars support. Just because a few muslims today say that hadith are unreliable does not change the position of the vast majority of scholars. Imagine saying imam malik, imam bukhari, imam muslim, ibn hajar al-asqalani, imam nawawi, Imam shafii, Imam ahmad, and the vast majority were all STUPID because they accepted that which you think are questionable. It is absurd, you have no argument to base your views, it is just a modern apologetic stance. Go to medina university with your argument and see what they say, go to al-azhar, go to daru ul uloom deoband in India, Pakistan, or afghanistan. You will be rejected and shot down as a modernist.



    Muhammad was not the only messenger of God to get angry. Jesus got angry. Buddha worked to be free of anger, but only because anger causes suffering. The prophet, Muhammad, like many other prophets, got very angry at unjustness. If anything, many prophets bring a message of condemnation when a society is going astray. When the oppressors start taking over and people get caught up in things like greed, oppression and prejudice, etc., messengers come so that God can make the point that people need to re-evaluate and get back on the right track. And also you can find as many hadith and ayat to support Muhammad being a messenger of compassion and mercy as you can to support your own opinions of him.
    Jesus turned over tables so that makes him a man of anger? Name one man jesus ever struck? Name one man Jesus ordered to be executed let alone 700 people. You probably also believe that Jihad is defensive only. Yet do you not realize that Jihad is offensive aswell and it is sinful for an islamic state to be in existence without waging Jihad. These are all points you probably never studied because instead you just listen to local lectures at the mosque and thats the only ounce of islam you get. Look listen to the Biography of the Prophet on audio CD by Shaykh Anwar Awlaki, it is a CD set you find in many mosques. Yet if you listen you will see all sides of Muhammad and also defense of his angry actions and his slaughter.

    In Islam, you can't pick a fight. You can only fight in self-defense. Quran never says lets go around starting wars. That is a complete distortion of Quranic teaching.
    This is 100% incorrect! Jihad is offensive aswell. Here is straight from the Quran

    “Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”9:29


    This is offensive. You conquer spain and cause them to pay jizya. This is discussed in my article did you bother to read it? Read this
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/26125/offensive%20jihad
    Shaykh munajid shows proof for his stance on offensive jihad stating this:

    Jihaad against the kuffaar with weapons is of two types: jihad talab (offensive jihad) and jihad daf’ (defensive jihad).
    Jihad talab means attacking the kuffaar in their own lands until they become Muslim or pay the jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have been commanded to fight the people until they bear witness that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, and establish regular prayer, and pay zakaah. If they do that, then they have protected their blood and their wealth from me, except in cases decreed by Islamic law, and their reckoning with be with Allaah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 25; Muslim, 20.


    With all due respect you are just speaking out of emotion and not from knowledge.

    When you truly take the time to contemplate and consider Quran in its entirety, it is a lesson on free will and karma. It teaches me that I am responsible for my karma; that means I have to constantly think before I act. Christians say Jesus frees them as their savior and he was sacrificed to atone for their sins. Muhammad's message reminds us that we are responsible for our own deeds.
    Yet it teaches much more like offensive jihad which you denied. Muhammad will surely be responsible for the karma he has created.

    There are too many people (both Muslim and non-Muslim) who want quick easy answers and solutions from a religion, but Islam is not about that. You can't just pick out an ayat or hadith and magically transform it into your infallible proof.
    Until you can truely defend your beliefs with evidences and wipe out my evidences then you have nothing to say. You need to respond to the points. You cant just decide that you dont accept it and say I am wrong. If that is the case then kiss goodbye all the scholars for 1400 years that have thought otherwise.

    I believe Quran tells people to surrender to God and to value nothing more than surrendering to God. Surrendering to God is not enlightenment or freedom from suffering. Muhammad shows us that it is best to constantly aspire to seeking God and serving God.
    Muhammad shows how to be an imperfect human who always misses the mark. The Quran teaches dogma. Dogma does not help someone evolve. It can only get us so far.

    One thing that has happened to Buddha and Christ, peace be upon them both, is that they are commonly thought of as God itself...as Brahma in the flesh. Islam doesn't say that about Muhammad. Muhammad's human story is an important part of how God teaches through Islam.
    Well if you read my articles you will notice that he couldnt even follow his own teachings on anger and other issues.

    Saying Muhammad wasn't enlightened is like saying Ganesha really has an elephant's head or Kali is no different than a blood thirsty vampire. It is also judging someone by your own interpretation of enlightenment.
    If I had proof Ganesha didnt have an elephants head as is protrayed in the scriptures then I would have an argument. Now I do have arguments against Muhammad from authentic sources. You just cant fathom that because you are attached to dogma. It is an attachment you have to give up before you can obtain the bliss of liberation.

    One more bit of advice. Whenever you lump all person's into one ruling, you are creating fertile ground for prejudice and discrimination. Not all Muslims are one way or another. You must take it on an individual basis. Sure its a lot easier to say all Muslims say or believe a certain thing, but it is not true. You can only know that when you treat people as people.
    I am not condemning all muslims. I am condemning Muhammad. I have evidence for this, you cannot just respond that you find it fallible. Unless you can point out that the hadith are not authentic and the quran is saying something else then there is no argument. I spent day in and day out studying islam for 7 years. I went to the Masjid. I prayed and I sat with local shaykhs. I listened to lectures from scholars and read countless books. I still have an islamic library. I use this library now to point out the facts. Now if you wish to truely respond to the points I would love to discuss more with you, but you cant just dismiss my claims without investigation just because you saw the Biography of the Prophet on some film or went to the local imam and he tells you muhammad is love and peace.

    Best regards
    -juan

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •