Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Ekanta

I can not believe the attempt to equate Hindu dharma to this pathetic new age so called religion.

Krishna “kind of” participated in the Kurukshetra war (mass murder). Sure we can focus on bad sources and seek out what we find wrong… (this is can be done and is done to every religion).

You can not be serious here trying to implicate Lord Krishna of murder!
First, all the avenues were explored for peace before the war was fought between feuding two royal family, nothing to do with religion. These were willing army fighting on a battle field away from innocent public. Have a look at defination of murder before you make this ridicules charge so that you can be happy of being political correct of equating all religion to be the same.

I was also of the opinion that all religions were the same but never could understand the violence perpetuated in the name of religious conversion. Hindus has always been against conversion let alone by violence.

“All founders of religions have heard this impersonal Voice of God revealing the Atma that activates the entire Creation. Just as the Vedas were 'heard' and propagated as 'heard' (Shruti), the Quran too was 'heard' by Hazrath Muhammad.

Rishi’s of Vedas in search of truth performed extreme austerities, non of them went on the crusade to convert and you compare this man who if you half believe what has been written by Spritualseeker cuts a very sorry figure, to have received revelation like veda give me a break. Idi Amin also had a dream in his revelation that all Asians are no good so he expelled them all from Uganda. He also claimed to have revelation from god. so tell me what tapsya Muhammad went through to receive the revelation?

Islam means dedication, surrender, peace, tranquility.”

what it means and what it practice is a far cry.

Now if Muhammed was chosen to receive the Quran, was that because he was a bad person?

After receiving the revelation compare the actions of those rishi and Muhammad, did the seers of Vedas go on a crusade?

Jai Shree Krishna

[heartfully]

Namaste,

I felt so hurt by your words here. I may not be Sunni and I may be a Sufi Muslim, but I find quite a few hadith and ayat that support me. I do not see Quran as a mess, but more like my heart's mirror. Which path will I take? That is the theme of Quran, in my humble opinion. I believe Islam is a religion that teaches me to love God, to aspire to be compassionate and tolerant, to forgive, to be kind and charitable. It tells me to reason things out, to contemplate on the beauty of this universe, to honor God and seek God. I see many hadith that support me in all these things. I never go around and try to force my religion on anyone and I always seek to be a peacemaker. I think things out and reason things out. Islam teaches me how to do all these things.

Maybe some Muslims do the things you accuse them of. There are many ways to be Muslim just like there are many ways to be American or a woman or a friend or a Hindu. It feels like nothing I say here to you will be valued though because once you know I am Muslim you feel so much hatred toward me.

[Spiritualseeker]

Heartfully I am sorry that you are hurt by this, but what I provided were authentic evidences. I would love to take them all back if I could just be shown that the consensus of Scholars were wrong. I will gladly do it, but you see even as a Muslim I understood all this and I accepted it. The reason I accepted it is because I was attached to Dogma. I used to think of the things that caused me doubt, but then I would say to myself that Islam is the true religion so the behavior of the Prophet Muhammad must be right.

What I meant about the Quran being a jumbled mess is that if you read just the Quran without having tafsir (commentary from ahadith and history) then you will get confused and not understand much in the Quran. Remember the Quran is not compiled in the order it came down in. Some verses are bunched together and it doesnt seem to make sense at times. That is why one needs commentary to understand what events it is reffering to. Such as the ayaat about Muhammad frowning and turning away. It does not specify what had happend. If you read the ahadith and history you realize that he turned away from a blind man who was a muslim (the blind man was asking about islam, but the Prophet was speaking with arrogant people of the Quraish) so Muhammad turned away from the blind man because Muhammad thought it better to guide the non muslims to islam instead of helping the blind man at that moment. So if we didnt understand the story or the hadith we would not understand what the quran was referring to when it mentioned that.

If Islam and in particular the Quran helps you to be tolerant and loving then I am glad and delighted. My suggestion to you is do not study in detail about islam because you may find a different picture. So stick with that which makes your life joyous and loving. You will embody compassion that way.

I wish you all the best.

-juan

[heartfully]

Namaste,

I get upset, too, by some of the things that happen in the name of religion. I almost gave up Islam and I still struggle a lot with it, but every single time I say I've had it and I'm moving on, God pulls me back to Islam. And God does it by lighting the way to the "other Islam", the Islam that embraces the good.

Every religion has its good and bad parts, in my opinion. I am learning that the more I explore religions that it is important not to forget the historical (history is always subjective) human component. I am learning to seek God in all and not the ephemeral fallible human.

Quran tells me to contemplate the stars, the trees, the words of Quran. It forbids me to make any person or group of persons superior to God. Muslim and Islam both mean to be surrendered to God. I am learning from Islam that I must always check in with God before I check in with a person.

I think some Muslims are forgetting how God instructs Muslims to think and reason and contemplate. There are many Muslims who don't want to have to study Quran; they just want someone else to give them the answer so they don't have to find it out for themselves.

Now that I know you were once Muslim, I can say I relate to your anger towards it. I have had a lot of battles with it myself. On the other hand, I hope you will also find a way to make peace with Islam. Maybe I'm a pollyanna about Islam, but it seems that God loves me anyway. :P

Rumi knows the Islam of love; that is the Islam I try to practice.

Love to you,
HF

Heartfully I am sorry that you are hurt by this, but what I provided were authentic evidences. I would love to take them all back if I could just be shown that the consensus of Scholars were wrong. I will gladly do it, but you see even as a Muslim I understood all this and I accepted it. The reason I accepted it is because I was attached to Dogma. I used to think of the things that caused me doubt, but then I would say to myself that Islam is the true religion so the behavior of the Prophet Muhammad must be right.

If Islam and in particular the Quran helps you to be tolerant and loving then I am glad and delighted. My suggestion to you is do not study in detail about islam because you may find a different picture. So stick with that which makes your life joyous and loving. You will embody compassion that way.

I wish you all the best.

-juan

[Ekanta]

I can not believe the attempt to equate Hindu dharma to this pathetic new age so called religion.

I didnt. I said, Sanatana dharma is the essence of other faiths.
If you call Islam a "pathetic new age so called religion", that only reflects your own understanding of sanatana dharma. Congratulations!

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

If you call Islam a "pathetic new age so called religion", that only reflects your own understanding of sanatana dharma. Congratulations!

Thank you warmly accepted but the biggest applaud goes to you, sanatan dharma is safe in your hand, where Lord Krishna is implied as mass murderer!
Spiritualseeker, heartfully please carry on i do not wish to hijack this thread.
Jai Shree Krishna

[satay]

Admin Note

namaskar,

Krishna “kind of” participated in the Kurukshetra war (mass murder).

You are quite bold in posting this on a Hindu Forum, don't you think? Your comment is completely out of context and hurts the sentiments of Hindus, so I request you to edit your post.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[heartfully]

Namaste,

Thank you and I know at this point it is probably best to say we agree to disagree and move to where we stand on common ground.

With Love,
HF

Heartfully I am sorry that you are hurt by this, but what I provided were authentic evidences. I would love to take them all back if I could just be shown that the consensus of Scholars were wrong. I will gladly do it, but you see even as a Muslim I understood all this and I accepted it. The reason I accepted it is because I was attached to Dogma. I used to think of the things that caused me doubt, but then I would say to myself that Islam is the true religion so the behavior of the Prophet Muhammad must be right.

What I meant about the Quran being a jumbled mess is that if you read just the Quran without having tafsir (commentary from ahadith and history) then you will get confused and not understand much in the Quran. Remember the Quran is not compiled in the order it came down in. Some verses are bunched together and it doesnt seem to make sense at times. That is why one needs commentary to understand what events it is reffering to. Such as the ayaat about Muhammad frowning and turning away. It does not specify what had happend. If you read the ahadith and history you realize that he turned away from a blind man who was a muslim (the blind man was asking about islam, but the Prophet was speaking with arrogant people of the Quraish) so Muhammad turned away from the blind man because Muhammad thought it better to guide the non muslims to islam instead of helping the blind man at that moment. So if we didnt understand the story or the hadith we would not understand what the quran was referring to when it mentioned that.

If Islam and in particular the Quran helps you to be tolerant and loving then I am glad and delighted. My suggestion to you is do not study in detail about islam because you may find a different picture. So stick with that which makes your life joyous and loving. You will embody compassion that way.

I wish you all the best.

-juan

[goodlife]

Muhammad was a mass murderer, bandit, highway robber, rapist and above all a pedophile. great qualities to be chosen as the last profit.
yeah right.

sorry for being direct but that's what he was.

for more details
www.faithfreedom.org
http://faithfreedom.org/content/ali-sinas-challenge
www.councilofexmuslims.com
www.islam-watch.org

i hope this helps.

[devotee]

Namaste HF,

Before I read Q'uran and learnt about Muhammad, I also had high opinion of Islam. However, I was disappointed to read the scripture which in most of its part, dwells on two things :

Instil a very strong fear in people (throwing in fire of hell for eternity !) so that they dare not question Muhammad as prophet or Q'uran as word of God. You are told that you should keep praising God ... or else be ready to be fodder to the fire of hell for eternity ! On the other hand, if you are a believer, what God has to offer ? You will be granted a life in heaven with 72 maids taking care of you ... with freedom to experience enjoyment of sex 24x7 ... the gates of heaven are made of pearls & paths with gems etc. etc. .... You have trees laden with fruits & river of wine flowing across the valley ... etc. etc. ... (This depiction of heaven also shows lack of God's capacity to think of any enjoyment beyond this body ! Isn't that laughable ? God can give only "sex", "fruits" & "wine" for merry making in heaven ! How is he any better than a human being --- isn't he omnipotent & very well could have offered something better ? )

So, the whole of Islam is a "nightmarishly fearful & very hard Stick" & "highly tempting Sweetest Carrot beyond imagination" policy. If you are on the side of Allah then you get the sweetest carrot that you can ever imagine ..... & a "very hard stick" if you don't. Is such a God, really a God ? The God who decides worthiness of people for reward or punishment on the basis of who believes in Q'uran & Prophet or otherwise & not on their conduct whether they believe in God or not, can be a might King but not God. God asking for sycophants can't really be God ! God by definition must be fair to all, whether someone praises him or not. If He so desperately wanted someone to keep praising Him all day & night above everything then he would have created beings fully programmed so that would be born with only Allah's name in their lips ! If someone praises Allah or not, or believes in Q'uran or not or believes in Muhammad or not .... why should Allah worry so much ? Why should Allah hate the idol worshippers ? If he hated them so much why he created their minds like that ... why he not created man with Q'uran written within his mind ? Why were Vedas revealed more than 5000 years before Muhammad which taught a completely different version of Truth ? Why did he send so many prophets & sent widely differing messages through them ?

The unquenchable desires of Allah to be praised all the times & worshipped along with the book & his messenger makes one feel that He is unworthy of becoming God.

You have quoted Rumi. I have very high respect for Rumi, Rabia & other many Sufi Saints ... but that is no what is there in orthodox Islam. Rumi's or Rabia's version of Islam is not much different from Hindu's Advaita Vedanta. How many Muslims agree with Rumi's or Rabia's version of Islam ? All problems of this world would have not been today if even half of Muslims would have accepted that version & not Muhammad's version.

----------------------------------------------

And your assumption that Buddha thought that he was God in flesh ... is simply laughable ! You just don't know even abc of Buddhism. My dear friend, Buddhism doesn't ask you to simply believe in anything ..... not even in Buddha & his teachings ... they are just pointters to the Truth ... you must realise the Truth yourself & see what the Truth is & whether what Lord Buddha taught was right or wrong. There is a famous saying in Mahayan Buddhism ... "(in your great journey to find the Truth) if you see Buddha, Kill Buddha !". Truth is the only sacred thing ... all other things are only pointer to the Truth & if they hinder the realisation of the Truth ... just destroy all those pointers. ... and that is what is taught in Advaita Vedanta & in Jainism. You must realise the Truth yourself ! "Tatra Vedaah aveda bhavanti" ... all scriptures & all teachings become useless when you realise the Truth yourself.
What is the use of all theories we learnt in our childhood to understand "that the Earth is round" today, when man has seen from space that the earth is round !

OM