a request

[devotee]

Namaste Heartfully,

The logic you have given was known to me through lectures of Zakir Naik. But do you want me to believe that ? If that is true, then why the Islamic scholars did never say that, that part of revelation was for a certain period & for the hostile pagans only ? There is nothing which goes above Quran in Islam. Now, how do you think people will add theories like you or Dr Naik do, into Quranic verses and then take the correct meaning ? Why doesn't Quran say that those verses were applicable only in certain circumstances ?

If so much modification is allowed in Quran, I would be able to make a Bhagwad Gita out of Quran ! How many Muslim scholars would tolerate that & not cut my head off ??

Regarding oft quoted (by Islam sellers), "There is no compulsion in religion" ... how did you forget that those living in an Islamic country must remain subjugated & pay special tax for their faith ? And the watch the terms, "no compulsion" ... it is not a very respectable way of communicating equal treatment the other religion deserves. It is like, "I want you to be a Muslim ... but it is ok, if you so insist ... I will tolerate if you pay the tax & remain subjugated under me !". That is no compulsion indeed ! How many Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists are left in Pakistan & Afghanistan today ? Forget about people from other religions ... the area of Afghanistan, India & Pakistan was where the Sufism had attained great heights in the past. Try to find out how many Sufis are left today in Pakistan & Afghanistan.

............................

I don't say that you are not a good human being. I do love you as you love me. I feel that Rumi, Hallaz, Rabia etc. were enlightened beings. I have many good friends who are Muslims. .... But they are not because of Quran & Muhammad ... they are so in spite of Quran & Muhammad ! Hats off to those courageous Muslims who are not afraid of the bogus threat of eternal fire of hell !

BTW, you said that you want to learn about Hinduism. My dear sister, this religion is like an ocean compared to all the three Abrahimic religions combined. There are various paths ... various philosophies ... sometimes seemingly contradictory, nearly 1000 authoritative scriptures etc.. You need a lot of patience to have a real feel of Hinduism. However, if you are interested what is the highest philosophy within Hinduism, you may follow the thread, "Aham Brhamasmi", "Aham Brahmasmi-2" & other good threads in Advaita part of the Philosophy forums.

OM

[Kumar_Das]

Namaste,

Please know I do not want to create conflict here. I have had many battles with Islam, but I feel at this point I need to defend my interpretation of Islam. That puts me in a very very difficult place. Lots of Muslims hate me; lots of non-Muslims hate me.

Its a lonely place, but I feel it is what the Divine wants me to be right now.

If the conservatives walked into my house, they would criticize me. I have pictures of Jesus, Mary, Isis, Tara, Qwan Yin and Buddha. Next to my various translations of Quran are the Dhammapada, the Upanishads, books on wicca, books by gay and lesbian Muslims, books about playing guitar and drawing animals. My cd collection includes rock music, hip hop, qawwalis, gospel, opera.

This month I am celebrating Christmas, Yule, Santa Lucia Day. I have runes; I support the way a woman chooses to dress whether its in burka or bikini as long as its her choice. I even curse when I stub my toe. My dawn prayer includes the gayatri prayer and salat.

I personally have no problems with non-Hindus taking only a part of Hinduism while engaging in another non-Hindu religion or a whole concotion of non-Hindu religions.

In the end its a person's personal beliefs which they have all the liberties to choose. Which I have no say in.

But thats where I draw the line. You do what you want. And you do what want as long as you dont interfere with me.

I have seen several non-Indians/non-Hindus very clearly describing/discussing/debating Hindu concepts yet giving no reference to their usage. And others, those of the "new age" sort uploading Hindu mantras yet slaughtering away with other religious prayers and what not. And they have a very poor understanding of whatever they take from Hinduism.

Hinduism is tolerant, inclusive and pluralistic. But I think this should not be taken for granted.

You seem to be yet another new age-er that combines everything yet is sure of nothing.

I stay as far away as I can from people who speak about "unity", "love" and "harmony" in the name of religion.

In this Kali yuga, there are people who are detrimental to enlightenment of two types.

Those who like to preach equality and throw everything into a blender and make a thick mixture. And those who are aggressive and declare every religion is inherently evil altogether.

So why do I still stay connected to Islam? I want to be near to the Beloved more than I want anything else.

Then you should stay with what you think you are the closest to.

Islam took away the scary God I saw in the Bible and told me at the beginning of every chapter of Quran that God is Merciful and Compassionate.

Claims arent always lived up to.

Allah, just like every other semitic deity, is a merciless intolerant jealous insecure fear monger. And a far worse one at that in my opinion. Atleast Yahweh was an outright vicious and vengeful deity. Allah creeps into every corner of human rationality and keeps asserting and ensuring that the consequence of rejecting the quran will result in dire consequences.

A merciful and compassionate deity does not cast you into eternal torment for rejecting him.

It taught me to look at the injustices... at the violence, at the oppression, at the misogyny and chauvanism,

Ha! Islam has only perfected at all these.

As a Hindu my people have a millenia in our history of bloodshed and brutality of proportions unparalleled anywhere else under the hands of muslim invaders.

My response to anyone who brings islam up and says islam is and that is final and clear. I just dont give a jacksquat.

I am deeply offended by islam and I will not permit any room for it.

at my own ego's stubborn ways, at the hungry who have no choice about fasting during ramadan, at the way my father (a Catholic) beat my mother, at how women are objectified, at the way the moon stays in the sky yet a pebble I toss toward the sky comes back to the ground, at the mysteries of the universe, at the fact I will not be here forever and I better get my priorities straight because one day I will be dead and look over my life and how I will feel that I spent more time watching the late night show than helping others.

Yeah, you dont have to have a religion to teach you all this. To say "x" religion is such and such. "x" religion is whatever it wants to be, to people who accepts it.

Buddhism is far more moral and righteous. Whats your point?

"x" religion may be very nice to those who practice it. But "x" religion permits massacre, rape, violence, torture, slavery, humiliation and terror to all those outside of it.

And all of these islam has done to Hindus.

I read something recently that told me I needed to think hard about the energy I put in the world and the the way faith and doubt effect me (and then the energy around me).

I don't want to sell Islam. I will never ever do that to anyone. But I would like to show people that some Muslims (many Muslims) are kind, gentle, loving, charitable, generous, democrat, peace-loving, tolerant, openminded, accepting, animal lovers, pacifists.

Yeah well we all have heard about this a dozen times. And obviously humans are humans and humans tend to be different with different tendencies, attitudes, temperaments and personalities. That applies to pretty much every group you can think of.

And I dont deny this. Infact I personally can prove this as well.

All I want is to be accepted for who I am and not blamed for the violence of another Muslim.

Yes of course.

But the muslim bond trascends all barriers and muslims see themselves as a single unit. Islam seeks to dominate. Whenever there is a victory for some muslim somewhere, it is a celebration for the whole ummah.

So, no offense. I just dont want anything to do with islam. Islam has got nothing to offer me.

There might be nice people among muslims. But if there is a billion muslims today in this world, its not because islam was gentle and peace loving but because it sought expansion and domination. And much of the means it achieved this was far from what you are trying to paint islam as.

We have lost afghanistan, pakistan, bangladesh, malaysia and indonesia.

Slowly now my India is losing. I dont want to betray my people and participate in its destruction.

You can choose to be a loving person. I have nothing against that. But when you try and think islam has got any good to offer, then you are sadly mistaken.

I would like to start a thread here, not to sell you on Islam, but to show that there are many, many good Muslims in this world. Will you give them a chance to speak? Not because I'm here to hit you over the head with Islam, but because I mean it when I look to the right and left at the end of salat and wish all creation "I offer you the greetings of peace and the blessings of the Divine upon you".

I will start that thread now. All I ask is you read the thread with an open heart. There was a time when The Jeffersons sit com was a very controversial thing. Why? Because of the color of their skin. Because of the color of their skin, the Jeffersons reminded people that slavery and prejudice needed to end.

I love you all. I really do. Maybe that makes me a crazy freak, but I love you.

Love to you,
Heartfully

I've read the quran. I find it utterly repulsive.

Namaste heartfully

May the almighty Ishwara-Allah-God guide you and may the love spread.

Om

Allah and any Hindu deity(ies) are not the same.

What is it that you are trying to imply by saying Ishwara and allah are the same? Allah is a meglomaniac hell bent on humans following the words of muhammad.

Are you telling me that a woman who worships Shiva, is going to be resurrected and have 72 virgin men waiting to satisfy her in her afterlife?

When a muslim brings Hinduism up. For sure he has the same intentions as zakir naik. To convert.

There is no "common ground". And there is no need to create one.

If muslims want to be nice, I see no problem. They can put aside their islam first and then we can be friends.

Peace.

[Kumar_Das]

.....

Ugh those quotes.

So much for me even thinking the slightest that she was being genuine. *facepalm*

I guess she was doing taqiyyah. But taqiyyah at the cost being a fasiq.

In that thread her posts did not debate how muhammad was enlightened but based upon emotional slinging at Hinduism.

muhammad is a mere man, a guru at best. yet she compares him with the Hindu deities...