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Thread: Hindu Universalism

  1. #1
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    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Pranam atanu,

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Also, no authentic Hindu Guru has termed koran as non revealed scripture.
    Om Namah Shivaya
    Could you please share the names of the 'authentic' Hindu gurus who have termed Koran as revealed scriptures?

    As far as I know, the 'authentic' hindu gurus have not made any comments on the abharamic scriptures as they didn't care about these scriptures since these are considered malecha scriptures and are beneath any comment from an authentic guru. This is why I am curious to know the names of the gurus that you know of that have termed koran a revealed scripture.

    I am just curious.

    Thanks!
    satay

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    Hindu Universalism

    namaskar,

    Does Hinduism teach universalism? Universalism is defined as follows elsewhre on the net: "the ideology that all religions are true"

    Does Hinduism or Hindu gurus teach that all religions are true or is it a propaganda spread by the new age gurus?

    What do you think?
    satay

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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    namaste Satay and prospective posters.

    I would request members who seek to answer in favour of the topic--that Hinduism teaches universalism, in the context of the explanation provided by Satay--that the ideology of all religions are true (therefore equal), to peruse and discuss the points raised by these two eminent Hindu scholars/teachers in their essays (there might be others):

    Does Hinduism Teach That All Religions Are The Same?
    A Philosophical Critique of Radical Universalism
    By Frank Gaetano Morales

    An Appeal to Hindu Sadhus
    By Prof. GC Asnani
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3380326/Ap...-Hindu-Sadhus-

    IMHO, instead of just saying from the point of Advaita

    • that everything is the lIlA of Ishvara;

    • that the aggression of the Muslims and Christians is only guNa-play, not the teachings of their religions;

    • that ours is Sanatana Dharma, all faiths sprang out of it, so Hindus should be tolerant to aggressions of adharma, etc., etc.,

    • and questioning the level of spiritual advancement of the members who seek to find fault with the scriptures of Abrahamic religions with specific quotes,

    it would be for the benefit of everyone, if the posts that seek to equate the teachings of Hinduism with those of the Abrahamic religions try to provide

    • explanations with specific examples of scriptural quotes and show how the teachings are identical;

    • with convincing, down-to-earth explanations about the third aspect of every religion that Prof.Asnani gives: Relationship between people of their own and other religions;

    • the number of enlightened sages today in the Abrahamic religions vis-a-vis Hinduism and why the numbers are woefully less in the western religions;

    • the number of tolerant common people of the Abrahamic religions (as seen in normal life and on their religious forums on the Net) who would be even willing to go beyond the monopolistic precepts of their religious authorities and seek peaceful co-existence with the people of other religions, not as a matter of circumstance, but conceding that there could be other ways to reach the Absolute Truth;

    • and such other points.

    I have my own impressions on the points given above; I shall post them in a short while. Meantime, I look forward to meaningful discussion/debate on the issue that Satay has given for this thread.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Namaskar Ekanta,
    However, I challenge you and atanu to refute spiritualseeker's original post instead of making personal attacks on him and other members.
    Thank you!
    Namaste Satay,

    How do you you judge personal attack from me?

    A friend used to say to others, 'physician heal thyself'.
    Is it a case of dost dost nA rahA? I still believe in 'physician heal thyself'.

    Could you please share the names of the 'authentic' Hindu gurus who have termed Koran as revealed scriptures?

    As far as I know, the 'authentic' hindu gurus have not made any comments on the abharamic scriptures as they didn't care about these scriptures since these are considered malecha scriptures ----
    Happily. But I request you to reciprocate by showing what is a Mleccha and what is Mleccha scripture from authentic scripture/guru.

    Moreover, my following submission is limited to showing revelatory nature of Koran (and also Bible). I have equal distaste for conversions, violence, and fanaticism.

    Sri Aurobindo on Islam and other religions

    "A great thing would be done if all these God-visions could embrace and cast themselves into each other; but intellectual dogma and cult egoism stand in the way "

    -----Each religion has helped mankind. Paganism increased in man the light of beauty, the largeness and height of his life, his aim at a many-sided perfection; Christianity gave him some vision of divine love and charity; Buddhism has shown him a noble way to be wiser, gentler, purer, Judaism and Islam how to be religiously faithful in action and zealously devoted to God; Hinduism has opened to him the largest and profoundest spiritual possibilities. A great thing would be done if all these God-visions could embrace and cast themselves into each other; but intellectual dogma and cult egoism stand in the way.
    (Essays in Philosophy and Yoga, p.211)

    All fanaticism is false, because it is a contradiction of the very nature of God and of Truth. Truth cannot be shut up in a single book, Bible or Veda or Koran, or in a single religion. The Divine Being is eternal and universal and infinite and cannot be the sole property of the Mussulmans or of the Semitic religions only, those that happened to be in a line from the Bible and to have Jewish or Arabian prophets for their founders. Hindus and Confucians and Taoists and all others have as much right to enter into relation with God and find the Truth in their own way. All religions have some truth in them, but none has the whole truth; all are created in time and finally decline and perish. Mahomed himself never pretended that the Koran was the last message of God and there would be no other. God and Truth outlast these religions and manifest themselves anew in whatever way or form the Divine Wisdom chooses.
    (On Himself, p.483.)
    http://www.auroville.org/journals&me..._religious.htm


    From Kanchi Paramacharya
    The Word of God

    We must not distrust the belief that the Vedas are not the work of mere mortals. Followers of other religions too ascribe divine origin to their scriptures. Jesus says that he merely repeats the words of God and, according to Muslims, the prophet speaks the words of Allah. What we call "apauruseya" is revealed text in their case. The word of the Lord has come through the agency of great men to constitute religious texts.

    ----"Each great man, like each great work, speaks about a particular system, a particular path. Which of these is to be followed? " such a question arises in the minds of people.
    Whatever system or path you follow, follow it with faith. Do not give it up midway. In the end it will lead you to the Paramatman. In the beginning the paths may seem different but all of them take you to the same goal.
    ---
    It is this spirit of catholicism that Englishmen exclaim: "Jevhovah, Jove or Lord!". Jehovah is the Semitic God of the region of Israel, the home of the Bible. Jove is another name of Jupiter. The word "Lord" applies to the God of any faith; it is common to all religions. Realised people in the West also speak that the one Being is the same, call him by any name you like.

    God is One.
    The sense of religious toleration is not a modern conception. It can be traced to very ancient times. The Kural proclaimed that all teachings referred only to one Porul or Object. Sri Sankara and Sri Sambandar saw the same God worshipped in the six systems to which they referred. Arhat, the name by which Jains call the Supreme Being, is a Vedic name identified with Siva. Other religions also speak of one God.

    All troubles in this world start only when attempts are made to wean away people from their native religion to convert them to a new faith, -----It is the duty of every person to follow the religion of his ancestors. If a non-Hindu finds that he had Hindu ancestors, its up to him to revert to Hinduism after performing the prescribed Praayaschitta(purificatory ceremony).
    October 22, 1957.

    MANY PATHS TO SAME GOAL
    -------All of you are familiar with the scene at a railway station, as soon as a train arrives and the passengers emerge out of the platform. A passenger will be stormed by drivers of a variety of conveyances, each trying to snatch his baggage in order to attract him to his vehicle. In whichever conveyance he ultimately decides to travel, his destination is his home. Similarly the protagonist of each school of religious thought try to attract the seeker after truth by saying that their school is the easiest and surest way to realise the truth. When it is recognised that all paths lead to the same goal, there is no necessity to change the path one is already following.

    "Quest For God" From Swami Vivekananda

    O'ver hill and dale and mountain range,
    In temple, church, and mosque,
    In Vedas, Bible, Al Koran
    I had searched for Thee in vain.
    -----
    Thou wert my God with prophets old,
    All creeds do come from Thee,
    The Vedas, Bible, and Koran bold
    Sing Thee in Harmony.
    "Thou art," Thou art" the Soul of souls
    In the rushing stream of life.
    "Om tat sat om." Thou art my God,
    My love, I am thine, I am thine.

    From a letter written by Vivekananda on September 4, 1893 to Prof. J.H. Wright of Boston who introduced the Swami at the Parliament of Religions

    Ramakrishna Paramhamsa
    From the book "The Mahageeta volume1" by Osho

    Ordinarily a person reaches by one path. When you have reached the summit of the mountain, who bothers about other paths? Do you walk the other trails up it then? Who cares? -- you have reached. The trail you came on, you came on; what's the use of walking all the others? But Ramakrishna reached to the summit of the mountain again and again, then descended.

    He climbed by a second path, then by a third path. He is the first person who practiced the sadhanas of all religions and attained to the same peak through all religions. Many have talked about synthesis -- Ramakrishna is the first to create a science of synthesis. Many people have said that all religions are true, but it has just been talk. Ramakrishna made it a reality. He gave it the strength of experience, he proved it with his life. When he was doing Islamic sadhana he became a real Muslim fakir. He forgot Ramakrishna and began chanting, "Allahoo... Allahoo."

    He began listening to the verses of the Koran and lived right on the steps of the mosque.

    Gospel of Ramakrishna by Swami Abhedananada
    CHAPTER I: SR RMAKRISHNA AT THE TEMPLE OF DAKSHINESWARA
    When there is true devotion and love, one can reach God by any of the sectarian religions. The Vaishnavas, the worshippers of Krishna, will attain God in the same way as the Sktas, the worshippers of the Divine Mother or the followers of Vednta. Those who belong to the Brhmo-Samj, the Mahometans and Christians, will also realize God through their respective religions. If you follow any of these paths with intense devotion, you will reach Him. If there be any mistake in the path chosen, He will correct the mistake in the long run. The man who wishes to see Jagannth may go towards the South instead of towards the North, but some one will sooner or later direct him in the right way and he will surely visit Jagannth in the end. The one thing necessary for realization is whole-hearted and whole-souled devotion to God.

    Many names of one God.

    Vaishnavas, Mahometans, Christians and Hindus are all longing for the same God; but they do not know that He who is Krishna is also Shiva, Divine Mother, Christ and Allah. God is one, but He has many names. The Substance is one, but is worshipped under different names according to the time, place and nationality of His worshippers. All the different Scriptures of the world speak of the same God. He who is described in the Vedas as Absolute Existence-Intelligence-Bliss or Brahman, is also described in the Tantras as Shiva, in the Purnas as Krishna, in the Koran as Allah, and in the Bible as Christ. Yet the various sects quarrel with one another.
    (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gork/gork04.htm)

    Also by Ananda Coomarswamy http://religioperennis.org/documents...amakrishna.pdf

    Shri Sathya Sai Baba
    http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-362196


    Shirdi Sai Baba
    http://books.google.co.in/books?id=Z...0koran&f=false

    Abdul Baba
    Abdul Baba came to Shirdi in around 1890 from a poor family and through a fakir who received instructions in a dream to send him. Baba greeted him with the curious words "My crow has come".
    He was a dedicated worker and it was he who cleaned the mosque, washed Baba's clothes and collected water. He swept the streets outside the mosque, lit the lamps in Lendi and obeyed Baba's instructions to the letter.

    Baba took care of his welfare, and often had him reading aloud passages from the Koran.
    (http://www.shirdi-sai-baba.com/saidevoteeabdulbaba.html)


    Shree Chaitanya and Srila Prabhupada
    ----(A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada writes in his purport to this verse: The revealed scripture of the Mohammedans is the Koran. There is one Muslim sampradaya (school of thought) known as the Sufis. The Sufis accept impersonalism, believing in the oneness of the living entity with the Absolute Truth. Their supreme slogan is "analahak." The Sufis Sampradaya was certainly derived from Adi Sankaracaryas Advaitist impersonalism.)
    (Purport by Prabhupada: According to the Muslim scripture, without evadat, offering prayers at a mosque or elsewhere 5 times daily (namaja), one cannot be successful in life. Sri Caitanya pointed out that in the revealed scripture of the Mohammedans, love of Godhead is the ultimate goal. Karma yoga and Jnana yoga are certainly described in the Koran, but ultimately the Koran states that the ultimate goal is the offering of prayers to the Supreme Person (evadat).
    (http://krishna.org/shri-chaitanya-and-the-koran/)


    Shri Aurobindo
    Hinduism : An Overview by Neria Harish Hebbar
    Introduction
    If looked at in the historical perspective, all the religions have an interesting beginning and development. Also looking at all the religions in the historical context makes it easier to understand and tolerate. Sri Aurobindo wrote that all religions have two aspects. One is the Truth or the core essence of the religion. The second is the unimportant part that is only relevant to the time the scriptures were written. Thus the Gita is a sermon on the battlefield. The battlefield is not important. Similarly the Koran was revealed over many years during tumultuous years with tribal infighting in Mecca and Medina. That context of the Koran, with its violence and death is not important and significant only for the contemporary period. Similarly one religion does not hold an answer to all the questions.
    http://www.boloji.com/hinduism/050.htm

    Sri Aurobindo on Islam and other religions

    "A great thing would be done if all these God-visions could embrace and cast themselves into each other; but intellectual dogma and cult egoism stand in the way."
    http://www.auroville.org/journals&me..._religious.htm

    Kabir

    I. 112. 'sunta nahi dhun ki khabar
    HAVE you not heard the tune with the Unstruck Music is playing? In the mist of the chamber the harp of joy is gently and sweetly played; and where is the need of going without to hear it?

    If you have not drunk of the nectar of One Love, what boots it though you should purge yourself of all stains?

    The Kazi is searching the words of the Koran, and instructing others: but if his heard be not steeped in that love, what does it avail, though he be a teacher of men?

    The Yogi dyes his garments with red: but if he knows naught of that colour of love, what does it avail though his garments be tinted?

    Kabir says: "Whether I be in the temple or the balcony, in the camp or in the flower garden, I tell you truly that every moment my Lord is taking His delight in me."


    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 20 December 2009 at 09:40 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    namaste Satay and Atanu.

    The content of both your post #60 and Atanu's reply in post #61, as you can see, properly belong to the 'Hindu Universalism' thread that Satay has floated today. You may possibly shift both the posts to that thread so we may discuss them in the context of that thread. The authors Atanu have quoted would surely have said a lot more about Hinduism that we need to check up and highlight vis-a-vis their statements about other religions.

    Essentially, the three AchAryas Adi shankara, rAmAnuja and mAdhva are the proponents of traiditional Hinduism in the kali yuga. They are also the Adi gurus of most if not all the Hindu sects that exist today. It is within the context of their teachings that we as traditional Hindus must need to discuss the views of our modern sages and AchAryAs, and arrive at the conclusion if the Hindu shruti and smRiti really teach Radical Universalism or is it a necessary extrapolation of the times by our modern sages.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Namaste Atanu,

    Thanks for a very good post !

    The Self-realised Saints can never think or say against anyone ... because there is no "other" for them !

    But that is not how the majority of Muslims think. Most people are unaware what is written in their holy book & what is there in Hadith. They just pray 5 times in a day & try to lead a life the way the Mullah say or the way he understands Islam.

    What the extremists & the hard-core Islamists are propagating in the name of religion is even worse. They are able to brainwash young minds & make them ready for suicide attacks. They are able to lure young girls by showing only the goodie-goodie part of Islam & then that poor soul has to grow through a nightmarish life.

    It is not that there are no good things in Islam & Quran. They are there. You can't make a person drink poison if you do not cleverly mix it in a tantalizing sweetened juice !

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    Pranam Atanu ji

    i hope i am not offending you

    I want to get off the hook myself and do not have much time to put Prophet Muhammad on the hook or to get him off.
    Good idea, nor would I care to give time of day to Islam or the prophet in particular, but I can not put my head in the send to think there is no danger, I would be happy to pray side by side with anyone if there is a mutual respect, I am happy to say it loudly that I and Hindu dharma pose no threat to anyone or any religion let them reciprocate, is this too much to ask?

    Logically, I cannot put credence on the personalty cult based Puranic stories as shruti, if they contradict the Vedas. If one goes only by puranic stories, creating mental images of fleshy divinities, in place of spiritual beings, then one would come across many horrendous ideas. Similarly, i cannot accept Hadiths as stand alone evidences. But I acknowledge Koran as revelation. Koran could not have been written by an illiterate goon and without divine intervention --
    From what I can gather the Hadiths are complimentary to understand Koran, if that has been written and followed by majority, who are we to dispute that, what purpose does it serve us and the rest of humanity. Are you going to tell them, mate you got it all wrong, would we be able to convince them that the Vedas and Koran speaks the same language?
    I have no idea who wrote the Koran but Muhammad certainly followed it with his sword and history certainly bares the scars. It sure is a revelation but off a kind not spoken in Vedas or else its fruit would be the same. But I do agree nothing happens without a reason.

    Sweeping generalisation on puran to prove a point is uncalled for. Puranas are highly venerated by majority of Hindus, no one disputes the Vedas ultimate authority, hardly anyone reads it or understands it, most of the time we are relaying on translations given by foreigners and we all know their agenda. If one does not know Sanskrit the real meaning is lost anyway. But in this age of Kali purans are easily understood, I have not seen any monster cult springing from reading purans, sure there are debates between different sects but here again it is as you say Vedas have the final say.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  8. #8

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Long post Atanu ji. Not one sentence anywhere there says Mohammed was enlightened.

    I especially appreciated this quote you cited from that list:
    Sri Aurobindo on Islam and other religions

    "A great thing would be done if all these God-visions could embrace and cast themselves into each other; but intellectual dogma and cult egoism stand in the way "
    English is a tricky language. Is this sentence saying God-visions (visions FROM the God? or visions OF the God by finite men?). This sentence alone makes no claim whatever that Koran is equal to Sruti as you have alleged. Nowhere in any of your quotes is any such statement, only reflections of the TOLERANCE of Sanatana Dharma for any other religion and recognition of Islam as a major world religion. Nowhere is any comment stating Mohammed was enlightened as you have alleged.

    Lot's of quotes. Zero proof. Try again.


    -----Each religion has helped mankind. Paganism increased in man the light of beauty, the largeness and height of his life, his aim at a many-sided perfection; Christianity gave him some vision of divine love and charity; Buddhism has shown him a noble way to be wiser, gentler, purer, Judaism and Islam how to be religiously faithful in action and zealously devoted to God; Hinduism has opened to him the largest and profoundest spiritual possibilities. A great thing would be done if all these God-visions could embrace and cast themselves into each other; but intellectual dogma and cult egoism stand in the way.
    (Essays in Philosophy and Yoga, p.211)
    Even bhuta worship is useful to someone. This is tolerance of Sanatana Dharma. NOTHING here is saying what you have been saying about Islam. In fact it is even telling us that Islam is "zealous" which is something very close to fanaticism in definition, and then making correction warning against fanaticism. This reflects the deep insightful vivek of Sri Aurobindo Ji.

    All fanaticism is false, because it is a contradiction of the very nature of God and of Truth. Truth cannot be shut up in a single book, Bible or Veda or Koran, or in a single religion. The Divine Being is eternal and universal and infinite and cannot be the sole property of the Mussulmans or of the Semitic religions only, – those that happened to be in a line from the Bible and to have Jewish or Arabian prophets for their founders.
    Seems like your own quotes are making the case against your points. Please do continue with your presentation Ji. Lol.

    Hindus and Confucians and Taoists and all others have as much right to enter into relation with God and find the Truth in their own way. All religions have some truth in them, but none has the whole truth; all are created in time and finally decline and perish. Mahomed himself never pretended that the Koran was the last message of God and there would be no other. God and Truth outlast these religions and manifest themselves anew in whatever way or form the Divine Wisdom chooses.
    (On Himself, p.483.)
    http://www.auroville.org/journals&me..._religious.htm
    It's abundantly clear that Sri Aurobindo Ji was well acquainted with the mentality of Islamic religion and was gently correcting it from this quotation you cited and proclaiming the RIGHT of other religions, which ISLAM so famously cannot tolerate as even being "of God."


    That's for sharing. All you did was make SS points more clear.
    It is within the context of their teachings that we as traditional Hindus must need to discuss the views of our modern sages and AchAryAs, and arrive at the conclusion if the Hindu shruti and smRiti really teach Radical Universalism
    The teaching is everyone is part of one universal energy/soul and One God. But in this world we fight against adharma. The goal is to do this duty without ourselves becoming adharmic. No one could live in a society where law does not prevail in name of some false interpretation of Advaitic Oneness. In real world of Maya delusion and dimensions, child molestor must be punished and society protected from harm. Even with this, child molestor is still a part of the wholeness.

    Guru Gobind Singh Ji's life gave best example of this. He did not trample on Muslims until they trampled on Hindu's. WHY? Because not to defend Dharma is greater evil then the criminal. So that is perfect answer to "without limits," irrational, radical universalism.

    (Cont.)

  9. #9

    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    ALL religions and religious worship comes from the GOD. No religion can contain the Total Truth. Guru Nanak Dev Ji explained Truth is part of nirguna and quite beyond human intellectual comprehension. Likewise, some religions more than others carry greater degree of error explained by Bhagavan Krishna Ji.

    If God in Bhagavad-Gita did not say every religion is equal, then what are we thinking? But this is not to confuse that every religion has it's right (SO long as it does not infringe on others), and every religion lifts the atma some measure to the God. In Sanatana Dharma, there is no such thing as FALSE religion, is not the same thing as ALL religions are the same.

    O Arjuna, even those devotees who worship demigods with faith, they too worship Me, but in an improper way. (9.23)
    Because I alone am the enjoyer of all Yajna, and the Lord. But, people do not know My true transcendental nature. Therefore, they fall (into the repeated cycles of birth and death). (9.24)
    Worshippers of the demigods go to the demigods, the worshippers of the ancestors go to the ancestors, and the worshippers of the ghosts go to the ghosts, but My devotees come to Me (and are not born again). (See also 8.16) (9.25)
    Whosoever offers Me a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or water with devotion; I accept and eat the offering of devotion by the pure-hearted. (9.26)
    O Arjuna, whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer as oblation to the sacred fire, whatever charity you give, whatever austerity you perform, do all that as an offering unto Me. (See also 12.10, 18.46) (9.27)
    By this attitude of complete renunciation (or Samnyasa-yoga) you shall be freed from the bondage, good and bad, of Karma. You shall be liberated, and come to Me. (9.28)
    The Self is present equally in all beings. There is no one hateful or dear to Me. But, those who worship Me with devotion, they are with Me and I am also with them. (See also 7.18) (9.29)
    ~Bhagavad-Gita, words of Lord Krishna
    ਗਊ ਬਿਰਾਹਮਣ ਕਉ ਕਰੁ ਲਾਵਹੁ ਗੋਬਰਿ ਤਰਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥
    Ga▫ū birāhmaṇ ka▫o kar lāvhu gobar ṯaraṇ na jā▫ī.
    They tax the cows and the Brahmins, but the cow-dung they apply to their kitchen will not save them.

    ਧੋਤੀ ਟਿਕਾ ਤੈ ਜਪਮਾਲੀ ਧਾਨੁ ਮਲੇਛਾਂ ਖਾਈ ॥
    Ḏẖoṯī tikā ṯai japmālī ḏẖān malecẖẖāʼn kẖā▫ī.
    They wear their loin cloths, apply ritual frontal marks to their foreheads, and carry their rosaries, but they eat food with the Muslims.

    ਅੰਤਰਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਪੜਹਿ ਕਤੇਬਾ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਤੁਰਕਾ ਭਾਈ ॥
    Anṯar pūjā paṛėh kaṯebā sanjam ṯurkā bẖā▫ī.
    O Siblings of Destiny, you perform devotional worship indoors, but read the Islamic sacred texts, and adopt the Muslim way of life.

    ਛੋਡੀਲੇ ਪਾਖੰਡਾ ॥
    Cẖẖodīle pākẖandā.
    Renounce your hypocrisy!

    ਨਾਮਿ ਲਇਐ ਜਾਹਿ ਤਰੰਦਾ ॥੧॥
    Nām la▫i▫ai jāhi ṯaranḏā. ||1||
    Taking the Naam, the Name of the Lord, you shall swim across. ||1||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 471


    Guru Nanak Dev Ji is clearly warning against those evil Hindu leaders who corrupted themselves by collaborating with the Muslims (Mlecchas) and became oppressors of their own people, just as Guru Ji is warning them against the hypocrisy of pretending to be holy by renouncing the true faith and practice of of Naam Japna for conversion to Islam. Guru is saying mukti will only be achieved by Nama Jap.


    ਮਰਣਾ ਮੁਲਾ ਮਰਣਾ ॥
    Marṇā mulā marṇā.
    Death, O Mullah-death will come,

    ਭੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਹੁ ਡਰਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    Bẖī karṯārahu darṇā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
    so live in the Fear of God the Creator. ||1||Pause||

    ਤਾ ਤੂ ਮੁਲਾ ਤਾ ਤੂ ਕਾਜੀ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਖੁਦਾਈ ॥
    Ŧā ṯū mulā ṯā ṯū kājī jāṇėh nām kẖuḏā▫ī.
    You are a Mullah, and you are a Qazi, only when you know the Naam, the Name of God.

    ਜੇ ਬਹੁਤੇਰਾ ਪੜਿਆ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਕੋ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਭਰੀਐ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥
    Je bahuṯerā paṛi▫ā hovėh ko rahai na bẖarī▫ai pā▫ī. ||2||
    You may be very educated, but no one can remain when the measure of life is full. ||2||

    ਸੋਈ ਕਾਜੀ ਜਿਨਿ ਆਪੁ ਤਜਿਆ ਇਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਕੀਆ ਆਧਾਰੋ ॥
    So▫ī kājī jin āp ṯaji▫ā ik nām kī▫ā āḏẖāro.
    He alone is a Qazi, who renounces selfishness and conceit, and makes the One Name his Support.

    ਹੈ ਭੀ ਹੋਸੀ ਜਾਇ ਨ ਜਾਸੀ ਸਚਾ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੋ ॥੩॥
    Hai bẖī hosī jā▫e na jāsī sacẖā sirjaṇhāro. ||3||
    The True Creator Lord is, and shall always be. He was not born; He shall not die. ||3||

    ਪੰਜ ਵਖਤ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਹਿ ਪੜਹਿ ਕਤੇਬ ਕੁਰਾਣਾ ॥
    Panj vakẖaṯ nivāj gujārėh paṛėh kaṯeb kurāṇā.
    You may chant your prayers five times each day; you may read the Bible and the Koran.

    ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਗੋਰ ਸਦੇਈ ਰਹਿਓ ਪੀਣਾ ਖਾਣਾ ॥੪॥੨੮॥
    Nānak ākẖai gor saḏe▫ī rahi▫o pīṇā kẖāṇā. ||4||28||
    Says Nanak, the grave is calling you, and now your food and drink are finished. ||4||28||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 24


    Muslims may pray 5 times a day and read their Koran but the grave is waiting them, they will not have liberation until they obtain the practice of Nama Japa.


    ਸਾਹਾਂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਗਵਾਈਆ ਰੰਗਿ ਤਮਾਸੈ ਚਾਇ ॥
    Sāhāʼn suraṯ gavā▫ī▫ā rang ṯamāsai cẖā▫e.
    The kings had lost their higher consciousness, reveling in pleasure and sensuality.

    ਬਾਬਰਵਾਣੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਗਈ ਕੁਇਰੁ ਨ ਰੋਟੀ ਖਾਇ ॥੫॥
    Bābarvāṇī fir ga▫ī ku▫ir na rotī kẖā▫e. ||5||
    Since Baabar's rule has been proclaimed, even the princes have no food to eat. ||5||

    ਇਕਨਾ ਵਖਤ ਖੁਆਈਅਹਿ ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਪੂਜਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
    Iknā vakẖaṯ kẖu▫ā▫ī▫ah iknĥā pūjā jā▫e.
    The Muslims have lost their five times of daily prayer, and the Hindus have lost their worship as well.

    ਚਉਕੇ ਵਿਣੁ ਹਿੰਦਵਾਣੀਆ ਕਿਉ ਟਿਕੇ ਕਢਹਿ ਨਾਇ ॥
    Cẖa▫uke viṇ hinḏvāṇī▫ā ki▫o tike kadẖėh nā▫e.
    Without their sacred squares, how shall the Hindu women bathe and apply the frontal marks to their foreheads?

    ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਕਬਹੂ ਚੇਤਿਓ ਹੁਣਿ ਕਹਣਿ ਨ ਮਿਲੈ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥੬॥
    Rām na kabhū cẖeṯi▫o huṇ kahaṇ na milai kẖuḏā▫e. ||6||
    They never remembered their Lord as Raam, and now they cannot even chant Khudaa-i||6||

    ਇਕਿ ਘਰਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਇਕਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਪੁਛਹਿ ਸੁਖ ॥
    Ik gẖar āvahi āpṇai ik mil mil pucẖẖėh sukẖ.
    Some have returned to their homes, and meeting their relatives, they ask about their safety.

    ਇਕਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਏਹੋ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਬਹਿ ਬਹਿ ਰੋਵਹਿ ਦੁਖ ॥
    Iknĥā eho likẖi▫ā bahi bahi rovėh ḏukẖ.
    For some, it is pre-ordained that they shall sit and cry out in pain.

    ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋ ਥੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਆ ਮਾਨੁਖ ॥੭॥੧੧॥
    Jo ṯis bẖāvai so thī▫ai Nānak ki▫ā mānukẖ. ||7||11||
    Whatever pleases Him, comes to pass. O Nanak, what is the fate of mankind? ||7||11||
    ~SGGS JI ang 417


    Guru Nanak Dev Ji is aware of the destruction Babar/Muslims brought to land of Hindustan and the complete destruction of Dharma and religion, even for themselves sinking deeper into sins by doing evil deeds have lost even their own religion too.

    None of this is praise of Islam, nor claim that Mohammed was enlightened and contradicts that Islam sits in any equality to traditional Vaishnav teaching of Nama Japa as superior method of obtaining liberation. Since this is also taught by Bhagavan Krishna in Bhagavad-Gita, there is Sruti and Hindu scriptures for you to answer the question. Bhagavad-Gita is accepted by Hindu's as aligned with Sruti of Vedas. And Shri Guru Granth Sahib is agreeing with Bhagavad-Gita.

    maharṣīṇāḿ bhṛgur ahaḿ
    girām asmy ekam akṣaram
    yajñānāḿ japa-yajño 'smi
    sthāvarāṇāḿ himālayaḥ

    "Of the great sages I am Bhṛgu; of vibrations I am the transcendental oḿ. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa], and of immovable things I am the Himālayas."~Bhagavad-Gita 10:25

    So what is Guru Nanak Dev Ji's NAAM? It is the same as Vaishnav sankirtan.

    ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਗਾਇ ॥
    Rām rām rām kīrṯan gā▫e.
    Sing the Kirtan of the Praises of the Lord, Raam, Raam, Raam.
    ~SGGS JI ang 865

  10. #10
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    Re: Was Muhammad Enlightened? Part 1

    Namaste atanu,

    My original question was Could you please share the names of the 'authentic' Hindu gurus who have termed Koran as revealed scriptures?

    Which guru has termed Koran as revealed scripture? From what you posted, I don't see anyone that has termed koran as revealed scripture.

    When I was reading your original quote about 'authentic' hindu gurus, I thought you meant shakaracrya, ramnuja or madva. I didn't know you were thinking of contemporary gurus/politician/atheist and calling them authentic hindu gurus. Though I should've guessed.
    satay

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