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Thread: Hindu Universalism

  1. #21
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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    namaste Atanu.

    I am rather disappointed with your stringing discrete quotes from KAnchi ParamAchArya as if he uttered them in a single context successively, as his endorsements of the identity of the Absolute as revealed in other religions to that of Brahman.
    namaste,

    I accept your rebuke. You are correct that two paragraphs are mixed since, I could not find the original. However, the following is one piece:


    From Kanchi Paramacharya
    The Word of God

    We must not distrust the belief that the Vedas are not the work of mere mortals. Followers of other religions too ascribe divine origin to their scriptures. Jesus says that he merely repeats the words of God and, according to Muslims, the prophet speaks the words of Allah. What we call "apauruseya" is revealed text in their case. The word of the Lord has come through the agency of great men to constitute religious texts.
    The following is another
    It is this spirit of catholicism that Englishmen exclaim: "Jevhovah, Jove or Lord!". Jehovah is the Semitic God of the region of Israel, the home of the Bible. Jove is another name of Jupiter. The word "Lord" applies to the God of any faith; it is common to all religions. Realised people in the West also speak that the one Being is the same, call him by any name you like.
    I have reason to be disppointed since you do not cognise above and also see nothing wrong with the categorisation of Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Sathya Sai, Sri Prabhupada and others as NEO.

    Any way. Not to add to confusion i bow out.

    Regards

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  2. #22
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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    Originally Posted by atanu
    Also, no authentic Hindu Guru has termed koran as non revealed scripture.
    Om Namah Shivaya
    Sawmi Dayanand Saraswati and Swami Veivekanand wrote adversally on koran and bible,

  3. #23
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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    namaste Atanu.

    As for the two quotes of KAnchi ParamAchArya, I have given my impression about the context in which he uttered them. For me, unless a modern Hindu sage gives direct quotes from the Bible and the Quran and equate them to the concepts of Brahman in Hinduism (as Sarabhanga tried to do earlier and we are doing now by sometimes-thoughtless extrapolation), I can't take their sayings as full endorsements of the identity of those religions with Hinduism.

    You are surely aware that the Ramakrishna Mission (RKM) in the year 1980 filed a court affidavit that they were not part of Hinduism and that they were a 'minority religion'. RKM also won the case initially. Here is the report in the Hinduism Today issue of August 1999:

    Education is a major part of the Mission's social service, and their schools in India receive considerable government money. According to the 1991 figures, 43 percent of the total RK Mission annual operating income in India came as government grants, and nearly all for education. Ironically, these schools, though run by the RK Mission, cannot teach religion. Only schools run by minority religions (also supported by government funds) can so teach.

    The consequences of accepting this government money came to a head in 1980 when, in order to circumvent government restrictions, RK Mission made the shocking claim in a court affidavit that they were a minority religion: "Ramakrishnaism,... clearly distinguished from all other cults or religions, including traditional Hinduism."

    At issue was control of their schools in West Bengal, a communist-ruled state. In brief, the Mission could either give up control of its schools, or they could seek protection from government interference under the constitution as a minority religion. Initially the Mission won, but, in a celebrated judgment by the Supreme Court of India, were formally declared "Hindus" in 1995. The issue was deeply disturbing to the Hindu public, for it appeared the heirs to the very symbol of resurgent Hinduism, Swami Vivekananda, had abandoned the faith. Even within the Order there was considerable debate. Today the Mission is relieved to have the matter closed. In response to the question, "What has been the greatest success of the RK Mission?" Swami Bhajanananda, Assistant Secretary of the Mission, replied, "The 1997 centenary of RK mission, the Youth and Devotees Convention of that year and the Supreme Court's judgment declaring Ramakrishna Mission monks to be Hindus."

    Ref: http://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules...hp?itemid=4331
    If you look at the 'IDEOLOGY of Ramakrishna Math and Ramakrishna Mission', you find the following declarations: (http://www.belurmath.org/Ideology.htm)

    1. God realization is the ultimate goal of life
    2. Potential divinity of the soul
    3. Synthesis of the Yogas
    4. Morality based on strength
    5. Harmony of Religions
    6. Avatarhood of Sri Ramakrishna
    7. A New Philosophy of Work

    IMHO, only the first four and the last of these declarations are completely within the fold of traditional Hinduism.

    The fifth is based on sage RAmakRShNa's "direct experience (of) the transcendental unity of all religions". As Devotee has pointed out, RAmakRShNa could not have had this direct experience if he were not a Hindu earlier. This means that supposing RAmakRShNa was a non-Hindu and tried to live by the scriptures of Islam and Christianity alone, he could not have achieved this direct experience, unless and until he knew about and practised the Hindu concepts of Atman and Brahman, for the simple reason that such concepts are not there in the Abrahamic religions.

    If, for argument sake, the concepts of Brahman and ultimate Self-Realization are found in the scriptures of Abrahamic religions, I am yet to find a Self-Realized saint, a jIvanmukta in those religions known to the world, who by virtue of his fearlessness obtained by Self-Realization, boldly asserts that the efforts of conversion and many other popular and official practices of their religion are contrary to the spirit of their religion. If RAmakRShNa was able to have a direct experience of the Absolute Truth within the framework of concepts of the Abrahamic religions, why can't even the most spiritually advanced souls of the Abrahamic religions have and declare their direct experience as to the unity, infinity and immanence of the equivalent of their Brahman in all beings and entities of the universe, without reference to the concepts of Hinduism?

    The fifth declaration about the 'Harmony among world religions' is based on Swami VivekAnanda's belief "that the religions of the world are expressions of one eternal Universal Religion. Since Vedanta contains all the basic principles and laws of the spiritual world, Swamiji regarded Vedanta as that eternal Universal Religion. That is to say, Vedanta can serve as the common ground for all religions."

    IMHO, Swamiji was a VedAntin in his life and outlook, and a VedAntin does not resort to worship of nirguNa brahman. But then VedAnta cannot be a religion of the masses because the worship is absent therein. No religion--Indian or foreign--would ever be prepared to forgo worship in some form or other, and thus Swamiji's concept of the VedAnta being Universal Religion has only remained a dream. Today in a RKM ashram you would find large statues of the three founders--sages RAmakRShNa, VivekAnanda and Mother SAradA DevI--to which the ahsram priests chant hymns and show Aarti. Other Hindu festivals such as the Durga Puja and ShivarAtri are also held in the Ashram.

    The sixth, 'Avatarhood of Sri Ramakrishna' sounds like a Christian concept to me. I have no doubt that both RAmakRShNa Paramahansa and SvAmi VivekAnanda had the devAMsham--divinity aspect in them, but using it as a necessary belief among the VedAntic order of sannyAsis in the RKM sounds like using the name of Jesus for all the three aspects of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) in some Christian sects. I may be wrong here and I am willing to be corrected in this impression.

    Although sage RAmakRShNa and SvAmi VivekAnada held that all religions lead to the same Truth, while VivekAnanda freely chided the Christians for their aggressive practices, even RAmakRShNa criticized them in hiw own way. More on this in the next post.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    namaste Atanu.
    As for the two quotes of KAnchi ParamAchArya, I have given my impression about the context in which he uttered them. For me, unless a modern Hindu sage gives direct quotes from the Bible and the Quran and equate them to the concepts of Brahman in Hinduism (as Sarabhanga tried to do earlier and we are doing now by sometimes-thoughtless extrapolation), I can't take their sayings as full endorsements of the identity of those religions with Hinduism.
    Namaste saidevo ji,

    Regarding Kanchi Paramacharya, I have no doubt from
    "-----What we call "apauruseya" is revealed text in their case. The word of the Lord has come through the agency of great men to constitute religious texts."

    and

    "It is this spirit of catholicism that Englishmen exclaim: "Jevhovah, Jove or Lord!". Jehovah is the Semitic God of the region of Israel, the home of the Bible. Jove is another name of Jupiter. The word "Lord" applies to the God of any faith; it is common to all religions. Realised people in the West also speak that the one Being is the same, call him by any name you like."

    Regarding identity: Is identity between one thing and another possible? Is Dvaita darshana identical to advaita darshana? But there are indeed such comparisons, which I will not post here in detail for the fear of gettng the guru names sullied and branded.

    I will remind you of sage of ---- saying that "I am that I am" and "Be still and know ----" of the Bible are sufficient upadesha equal to Vedanta. To Muslims he said that the true religion is Islam - Surrender. Though, he also discussed with both christians and muslims to dispel their doubts on immanence of God.
    ----------------------

    I had once mentioned about a talk between a Muslim ruler and Madhavacharya. At that time Raghu shrugged it off as bogus. I do not know whether the following are bogus or not?

    'Vision of Madhavacharya and Raghavendra Swamy' by Tamarapu Sampath Kumaran
    -----There is a story of his argument with a Muslim king who had no sympathy towards Hindu monks. He spoke to the sultan in Persian, convincing him that his Allah and his own Narayana are one and the same. Madhva said to the sultan" We are all citizens of His Kingdom." This impressed the King who turned his follower.
    Concept of one God from Madhava Vijaya by likucha nArAyaNapaMDitAchArya

    The author likucha nArAyaNapaMDitAchArya records the following dialogue of AchArya madhva to the muslim ruler on the banks of the ganga:

    yo&sau devO vishvadIpaH pradIptaH kurmaH sarvaM tatparAnugrahENa
    yAmastAvat tUrNamAshAmudIchImityAdyaM tadbhAhayA chitravAkyaM 10.17

    All our actions are controlled by just one supreme being like how the entire world is illuminated by just one sun.
    Only one Lord creates, sustains, controls and destroys this entire universe.
    paramAtma is just one (EkamEva advitIya). The rest are all jIvas whom the Lord uses to perform His activities.
    -----------------------
    Though Swami Ranganathananda may not be accepted as a genuine swamy but I cite his teaching below:
    Islam-Stagnant
    The Message of Prophet Muhammad
    By Swami Ranganathananda, Belur Math

    The character of Prophet Muhammad has been misrepresented, not only by many prejudiced non-Muslim critics, but also by the violent, ambitious, and worldly-minded faithful Muslims as well. In his personal life, the prophet shines as a man of high character, integrity, and humanity.

    But, after the Mongolian invasion of the thirteenth century A.D. and the complete destruction of Baghdad in 1258, when many millions were killed, whole areas were laid waste, and political rule in the centre of the Islamic world passed into the hands of barbarian infidels, leaving only Egypt and Spain to nourish Arab culture for another two centuries. There set in the slow and steady erosion of these universal and rational elements and the rising, to dominance, of its dogmatic and intolerant elements. The Mongol invaders, and later the Turks, were soon converted to Islam and became the carriers of Islamic religion, culture, and political power. With some great exceptions, these new Muslim groups came under the influence, less of Islam’s rational and universal, and more of its dogmatic and intolerant elements. This led to the increasing exploitation of the name of Islam by several military conquerors to destroy and rob and pillage other countries and cultures, which has given a bad name to this great religion.

    The stagnation and decay of Islam commenced, as in the case of Sanatan Dharma in recent centuries, with the dominance of the Smrti over the Sruti elements. It was a dominance of the fundamentalist group over the ever-diminishing rational and humanist group which advocated the scientific approach and the stressing more and more of the eternal, universal, spiritual elements and the soft-pedalling of the temporal and local elements, in response to the advance of history.

    Since the destruction of Baghdad, there has been an increasing dominance by its rigid and intolerant Sariah or Smrti elements, and the consequent exploitation of Islam, as referred to earlier, by power-hungry worldly-minded individuals to cover their own greed and bloodthirstiness.

    If Islam is to become creative once again, and help in the human development and fulfilment of its followers, it has to capture once again the rational and universal temper of its early period, by taking inspiration from the spirit of Islam and not from its letter.
    It is my understanding that just as Roman emperors used Christianity to further their rajasic dreams, Mongol invaders changed the whole complexion of the another religion. Further the antagonism between these two gropus of rulers vitiated the whole teaching and the gnostic elements are buried deep inside literal-historical-ritualistic interpretations forced on gullible public.

    We must remember that Jesus was killed. So was Muhammad's grandson Hussain. The killers, predominantly, are the propagators now.

    I reiterate humbly that the devil abides in the rajas and tamas of the adherants of these two religions and not in the scriptures. This is my opinion but it is supported by most Hindu Gurus.

    Regards

    Om Namah Shivaya
    Last edited by atanu; 21 December 2009 at 09:26 AM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  5. #25
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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    Easterm Mind mentioned about Swami Chinmayananda as one who has repudiated Radical Universalism. Swamiji touches upon the subject of this thread in an article, which is posted:

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...73&postcount=4

    The relevant portion is:

    -----The values seem to be different. at least in emphasis in different religions and a student who studies various religions may find that one religion emphasizes one set of ideals and another religion.a different set of ideals. Buddhism asserts one maxim, Hinduism another, Islam and Christianity yet another. But if one closely examines the maxims, one discovers that the fundamental principle is one and the same though the language and the emphasis are different. Just as two doctors would prescribe to the same patient on separate occasions two seemingly different prescriptions for the same disease, those who understand the science of medicine would know that the prescriptions are the same, only in name are they apparently different.------


    ------The great religious masters, using their own ingenious efforts, have time and again revived the philosophical and religious values and thereby arrested the deterioration of culture. When culture deteriorates, there is an increase in barbarity and immorality in the country and its philosophy is misinterpreted leading to confusion and chaos among its people. This is more or less the sad condition of the present world. The need of the hour is to arrest forthwith the deterioration by reviving the great philosophical and religious values of life.------

    Om Namah Shivaya


    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  6. #26
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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Easterm Mind mentioned about Swami Chinmayananda as one who has repudiated Radical Universalism. Swamiji touches upon the subject of this thread in an article, which is posted:

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...73&postcount=4


    Atanu: This was from a quote of Dr. Morales, not me. Sorry for any confusion.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Atanu: This was from a quote of Dr. Morales, not me. Sorry for any confusion.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Namste EM,

    Sorry. I was in haste. But I hope the result is not bad.

    Regards

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    namaste Atanu and others.

    Although RAmakRShNa had the direct experience of God by living as a Muslim and Christian for short periods, he was very well aware that such realization was not within the reach of the common people, which is the reason he prescribed intense devotion--bhakti to transcend the limitations of rituals and texts and feel the oneness of God of all religions. He was however aware of the limitations of the established scriptures, practices and dogma of the Abrahamic religions.

    I find that I have collected sage RAmakRShNa's and svAmi VivekAnanda's views on Christianity in the following posts:

    What some Hindu sages said about Christianity
    Ramakrishna Paramahansa
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...6&postcount=19

    Hindu Sages on Christianity: Swami Vivekananda
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...9&postcount=25

    Here I give some more quotes from sage RAmakRShNa and then post sVami VivekAnanda's views on Islam and Mohammad in a separate post.

    Some more quotes from sage RAmakRShNa on Christianity

    The conversation next turned to a certain Marhatta lady.

    PRATAP: "Some women of our country have been to England. This Marhatta lady, who is very scholarly, also visited England. Later she embraced Christianity. Have you heard her name, sir?"

    MASTER: "No. But from what you say it seems to me that she has a desire for name and fame. That kind of egotism is not good. The feeling 'I am the doer' is the outcome of ignorance. But the feeling that God does everything is due to knowledge. God alone is the Doer; all others are mere instruments in His hands. (page 446)

    (This quote, IMO, shows how sage RAmakRShNa was aware that Christianity as a religion sought name and fame more than spiritual development.--sd)

    **********

    Different paths for different temperaments

    "Hindus, Mussalmans, Christians, Saktas, Saivas, Vaishnavas, the Brahmajnanis of the time of the rishis, and you, the Brahmajnanis of modem times, all seek the same object. A mother prepares dishes to suit the stomachs of her children. Suppose a mother has five children and a fish is bought for the family. She doesn't cook pilau or kalia for all of them. All have not the same power of digestion; so she prepares a simple stew for some. But she loves all her children equally...

    "Do you know my attitude? I love all the preparations of fish. I have a
    womanly nature. (All laugh.) I feel myself at home with every dish—fried fish,
    fish cooked with turmeric powder, pickled fish. And further, I equally relish
    rich preparations like fish-head, kalia, and pilau. (All laugh.)

    "Do you know what the truth is? God has made different religions to suit different aspirants, times, and countries. All doctrines are only so many paths; but a path is by no means God Himself. Indeed, one can reach God if one follows any of the paths with whole-hearted devotion. Suppose there are errors in the religion that one has accepted; if one is sincere and earnest, then God Himself will correct those errors." (page 576-577)

    MASTER (smiling): "I keep men's own ideals intact. I ask a Vaishnava to hold to his Vaishnava attitude and a Sakta to his. But this also I say to them 'Never feel that your path alone is right and that the paths of others a wrong and full of errors. Hindus, Mussalmans, and Christians are going to the same destination by different paths. A man can realize God by following his own path if his prayer is sincere." (page 622)

    SUB-JUDGE: "Sir, I am a sinner. How can I say that God dwells in me?"

    MASTER: "That's the one trouble with you Brahmos. With you it is always sin and sin! That's the Christian view, isn't it? Once a man gave me a Bible.A part of it was read to me, and it was full of that one thing—sin and sin! One must have such faith that one can say: 'I have uttered the name of God; I have repeated the name of Rama or Hari. How can I be a sinner?' One must have faith in the glory of God's name."

    SUB-JUDGE: "Sir, how can one have such faith?"

    MASTER: "Have passionate love for God..." (page 658)

    (Although it is his direct experience that the paths of Islam and Christianity lead to the same Truth, sage RAmakRShNa here shows how those paths could be different for the common people. His analogy of a mother preparing dishes to suit the tastes of her children indicates that the children have different propensities so the ultimate taste of the food is bound to be different for them.--sd)

    **********

    As for Islam, I find this episode of sage RAmakRShNa in his 'Gospels':

    With a smile Sri Ramakrishna said to the pundit: "Mani Mallick has been following the tenets of the Brahmo Samaj a long time. You can't convert him to your views. Is it an easy thing to destroy old tendencies? Once there lived a very pious Hindu who always worshipped the Divine Mother and chanted Her name. When the Mussalmans conquered the country, they forced him embrace Islam. They said to him: 'You are now a Mussalman. Say "Allah". From now on you must repeat only the name of Allah.' With great difficulty he repeated the word 'Allah', but every now and then blurted out 'Jagadamba'. 15 At that the Mussalmans were about to beat him. Thereupon he said to them: 'I beseech you! Please do not kill me. I have been trying my utmost to repeat the name of Allah, but our Jagadamba has filled me up to the throat. She pushes out your Allah.' (All laugh.) (page 488)

    **********
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    Vivekanada on Islam
    by Dinesh Agrawal
    part 1:
    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...ef97606614604e
    part 2:
    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...387965283c003a
    part 3:
    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...b8d4c59432d028

    The quotes posted below are with the explanations of Dinesh Agrawal. I have indicated my impressions, if any, in parenthesis with my initial:--sd.

    Books of Abrahamic religions are fallible

    Swamiji said "people who deny the efficiency of any investigation into religion seem to me somewhat to be contradicting themselves. For instance the Christian claims that his religion is the only true one, because it was revealed to so and so. The Mohammedan makes the same claims for his religion; his is the only true one because it was revealed to so and so....

    "The books fighting among themselves cannot be the judges. Decidedly then we have to admit that there is something higher than we have to admit that there is something more universal than these books, something higher that all the ethical codes that are in the world, something which can judge between the strength of inspirations of different nations. Whether we declare it boldly clearly or not - it is evident that here we appeal to reason." (The Complete Work of Swami Vivekananda, Vol I 368-69).

    **********

    How 'enlightened' was Mohammad?

    Mohammed claimed that the Angel Gabriel came to him in a cave one day and took him on the heavenly horse, Harak and he visited the heavens. But with all that Mohammed spoke some wonderful truths. If you read the Koran, you find the most wonderful truths mixed with superstitions. How will you explain this? That man was inspired, no doubt, but that inspiration was as it were stumbled upon. He was not a trained Yogi, and did not know the reason of what he was doing. Think of the great evil that has been done through his fanaticism! Think of the millions massacred through his teachings, mothers bereft of their children, children made orphans whole countries destroyed, millions upon millions of people killed". (I. 184)

    **********

    There is idol worship in Islam

    Swamiji further said: "The Mohammedan who thinks that every ritual, every form, image or ceremony used by a non-Mohammedan is sinful does not think so when he comes to his own shrine, the Kaaba. Every religious Mohammedan whereever he prays, must imagine that he is standing before the Kaaba. When he makes a pilgrimage there, he must kiss the black stone in the wall of the shrine. All the kisses that have been imprinted on that stone, by millions and millions of pilgrims will stand up as witnesses for the benefit of the faithful on the last day of judgement. Then there is the well of Zam Zam. Mohammedans believe that whoever draws a little water out of that well will have sins pardoned, and he will, after the day of resurrection, have a fresh body, and live for ever (II:39). The Mohammedans use the graves of their sainst and martyres almost in the place of images (III:61).

    **********

    on the synthesis of Hinduism and Islam
    as explained by Dinesh Agrawal

    Following is an often quoted Swamiji's view on the synthesis of Hinduism and Islam, the people do not go in the depth of this Utopian hope: "My experience is that if any religion approached equality in an appreciable manner it is Islam and Islam alone. Therefore, I am firmly persuaded that without the help of practical Islam, theories of Vedantism, however fine and wonderful they may be, are entirely valueless to the vast mass of mankind. We want to lead mankind to the place where there is neither the Vedas, nor the Bible, nor the Koran yet this has to be done by harmonising the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran... For our own motherland a junction of the two great systems, Hinduism and Islam-Vedanta brain and Islam body--is the only hope."

    Here Swamiji is very clear that concept of equality of Islam has to be extended to the universal equality as propounded in the Vedantic thought, and the division of the mankind into the land of believers and non-believers or Muslims, Zimmis and Kafirs as enjoined and sanctioned in the Koran has to be done with by synthe- sizing the basic Islamic truths with the Vedantic truth of divinity in all, then only the fusion of Islamic body and Vedantic brain would work.

    (It seems strange to me that Swamiji should think that Vedas do not encourage equality in practice but Mohammad's Islam does. Also, there could be no religion of the Vedantas without the Vedas. Thus it seems to me that svAmi VivekAnanda's VedAntic religion with the body of Islam can at best be only a dream. It also seems to me that VivekAnanda compromised if not sacrificed some of the ideals of Hinduism for the sake of gaining the attention of the wild and civilized West, which was perhaps a necessity in his time.--sd)

    **********

    Spread of Islam by Sword...

    he was also ruthless in condemning the barbaric, divisive and inhumane aspects and actions of Islam and its followers, he did not mince words when he stated:

    "The Mohammedan religion allows Mohammedans to kill all who are not of their religion. It is clearly stated in Koran, "Kill the infidels if they do not become Mohammedans". They must be put to fire and sword. (II.335). Think of the little sects, born within a few hundred years out of fallible human brains, making this arrogant claim of knowledge of the whole of God's infinite truth! Think of the arrogance of it! If it shows any- thing, it is this how vain human beings are. And it is no wonder that such claims have always failed, and , by the mercy of the Lord, are always destined to fail. In this line the Mohammedans were the best off; every step forward was made with the sword--the Koran in the one hand and the sward in the other: "Take the Koran, or you must die; there is no alternative!". You know from history how phenomenal was their success; for six hundred years nothing could resist them, and then there came a time when they had to cry halt. So will it be with other religions if they follow the same methods." (II:369-70)

    **********

    "What is called the Mohammedan invasion, conquest or colonisation of India means only this that under the leadership of Mohammedan Turks, who were renega- des from Buddhism, those sections of the Hindu race who continued in the faith of their ancestors were repeatedly conquered by the other section of that very race, who also were renegades from Buddhism of the Vedic religion and served under the Turks, having been forcibly converted to Mohammedanism by thier superior strength. (VII:395)

    **********

    ...and the Hindu resilience

    "Wave after wave of barbarian conquest has rolled over this devoted land of ours. "Allah Ho Akbar!" has rent the skies for hundreds of years, and no Hindu knew what moment would be his last. This is the most suffering and the most subjugated of all the historic lands in the world. Yet we will stand practically the same race, ready to face difficulties again and again if necessary; and not only so, of late there have been signs that we are not only strong, but ready to go out for the sign of life in expansion." (III.369-70)

    "...You have withstood the shocks of centuries simply because you took great care of it, you sacrificed everything else for it. Your forefathers underwent everything boldly, even death itself, but preserved their religion. Temple after temple was broken down by the foreigner conquerers, but no sooner had the wave passed than the spire of the temple rose up again. Some of these old temples of southern India and those like Somnath of Gujarat will teach you volumes of wisdom, will give you a keener insight into the history of the race than any amount of books. Mark how these temples bear the marks of a hundred attacks and a hundred regenerations, continually destroyed and continually springing up out of the ruins, rejuvenated and strong as ever! That is the national mind, that is the national life-current. Follow it and it leads to glory. Give it up and you die; death will be the only result, annihilation the only effect, the moment you step beyond that life-current. (III:289)

    The heroic resistance of Hindus against Islamic imperialism the growth of many sects, the supreme sacrifices of Guru Tegh Bahadur and the Bhakti Saints checked the Muslim proselytizing activity. Swamiji said: "Again it is in an undoubted fact that if there had not been the advent of Kabir, Nanak and Chaitanya in the Mohammedan period, and the establishment of the Brahmo Samaj and the Arya Samaj in our own day, then, by this time, the Mohammedans and the Christians would have far outnumbered the Hindus of the present day in India. (IV:463)

    **********

    Allah, the God of Islam

    According to Islam, Allah is unknowable. He is so transendent, so exalted, that no man can ever personally know Allah. To the Muslim the idea that Allah is a person or a spirit is blasphemous because this would demean the exalted one. Allah is not limited by anything. He is not even limited by his own nature. Swamiji used to react to this belief by saying: "For the Mohammedans,it is impossible to have this idea of God as a child; they will shrink from it with a kind of horror. But the Christian and the Hindu can realise it easily because they have the Baby Jesus and the Baby Krishna. (III:96)

    Swamiji also reacted on the 'universal brotherhood' in Islam by saying: Mohammedans talk of universal brotherhood, but what comes out of that in reality? Why anybody who is not a Mohammedan will not be admitted into the brotherhood; he will more likely have his throat cut. (II:380)

    More from Swamiji on this aspect: "Now, some Mohammedans are the crudest in this respect, and the most sectarian. Their watchword is "There is one God, and Mohammed is His Prophet". Everything beyond that not only is bad, but must be destroyed forthwith; at a moment's notice. every man or woman, who does not exactly believe in that, must be killed; everything that does not belong to this worship must be immediately broken; every book that teaches anything else must be burnt. From the Pacific to the Atlantic, for five hundred years, blood ran all over the world. That is Mohammedanism! Neverthe- less, among these Mohammedans, wherever there was a philosophic man, he was sure to protest against these cruelties. (IV:126)

    **********

    Theocratic Islamic governments

    Regarding the fact that in Muslim countries the non-Muslim religious communities had difficulty in performing their religious duties and the theocratic governments do not allow to build temples or churches, no wonder Swamiji said: "It is here that Indians build temples for Mohammedans and Christians. Nowhere else. If you go to other countries and ask Mohammedans or people of other religions to build a temple for you, see how they will help. They will instead try to break your temple and you too if they can (III:114).

    **********
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  10. #30
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    Re: Hindu Universalism

    namaskar,

    Hmm..I still don't see any 'authentic' guru having termed Koran as a revealed scripture.

    If they did, why hasn't there been any scholary examination of the maleccha scripture? Why would a hindu guru term koran as a revealed scripture?

    On the topic of Universalism, Hinduism definitely, does NOT teach that all religions are the same. If it did, then why did shankara refute and defeat buddhism? If all religions are the same, then why not happily accpet buddhism or even a maleccha religion. Then why try refute others at all?

    I have seen this forum full of pages and pages where members often refute the 'other' sect or philosopical system. If all religions are the same, why insist that your sect or philosopical system is the only correct understanding of the Vedas?

    One just has to do a comparative study of a few religions of the world to see that they are NOT the same! Their teachings, their traditions, their rituals, their goals are all different. The comparative study doesn't even have to be long, it can be short and this is evident.
    Last edited by satay; 21 December 2009 at 11:11 AM.
    satay

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