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Thread: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

  1. #1

    Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    I am currently stuck in stage 4 where I am the silent observer. I observe the body breathing but I am not breathing. The mind is thinking thoughts but I am not thinking. I am the observer and the body and the mind are the doer. I have that established but how do I move beyond that stage? (just in case you don't know what I am talking about here is a link http://www.psycanics.com/modules.php...article&sid=45 ) How do I move into Samadhi, or cosmic consciousness, and the higher levels of consciousness?

    Also, what is my true Self? Is the awareness my true Self or am I using awareness? Is awareness inside or part of the mind? If I am not the mind the who am I?

    Please share your wisdom and thoughts. Thank you.

  2. #2

    Question Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    Same position for me.Pls help me if u pass through it.
    Thanks
    Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya puram evavasisyate
    Om Santih! Santih! Santih
    That is Full; this is full. From the Full does the Full proceed. After the coming of the Full from the full, the Full alone remains
    Om. Peace! Peace! Peace!

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    Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    Quote Originally Posted by purnapragya View Post
    Same position for me.Pls help me if u pass through it.
    Thanks
    Hi Purnapragya
    Extinguish the desire for more, for samadhi or what ever you think is the next stage. There is not something that one must do as a body-mind to achieve as to act for the success of your body-mind is to assume that your or my existence is independent of Brahman (Chit - consciousness).

    There are no stages, unless you think about it or use memory or imagination to chisel out such stages for the sake of explanation or illustration. That which has been the same all you life will be here now and there in the future state also. The future state can only be imagined, so what the web site does is feeds the imagination. The stages indicate that there is something more than "john thomas and cash."

    If there is still doubt then read with the aim to understand the scriptures. Mediate and enjoy your life "now".

    Others may enjoy adding their views

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    Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    You are not the mind, you are the knower of the mind. The mind moves because you move it...you are aware without it...it is aware because of you.

    As I sit at this keyboard using a second mind to communicate this message. I have a first mind which I also utilize very much in the same way to communicate to you. It is the tool in the hand of the wise...we feed it knowledge. Because this is the food.

    The mind is hungry always...

    For me to achieve the state beyond this, I had to still the mind completely. One very good way of doing this is to only think of Beloved Isvara.

    Focus on One Piece of Him so wholly that nothing else can enter your mind. When you do this, it creates silence.

    There is more...but the fool waits for the question which would bring about the need for more.

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    Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    I looked at this 7 states of consciousness site offered in post 1.
    I am happy to see a site like this. I also agree and can see how
    the 7 states are offered, yet my orientation of the 7 states are
    different then this web site offers.

    I agree of the 3 states of wake, dream and sleep. yet after those
    3 we move to the 4th. From here I have been taught all the higher
    levels are predicated on establishing turīya ( the 4th) in one's awareness. This is the basis of Self-Awareness.

    My thoughts on this matter ( if there is any interest) is laid out
    in this HDF post http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3312

    More conversations from various members on this subject can also be found here:

    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2996
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1822



    praṇām
    Last edited by yajvan; 06 August 2010 at 09:02 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    namaste NayaSurya.

    Quote Originally Posted by NayaSurya View Post
    You are not the mind, you are the knower of the mind. The mind moves because you move it...you are aware without it...it is aware because of you.
    Excellent observation! The mind is moved by prANa--vital force, whose gross manifestation is svAsha--breath, which is why prANa elevated to the state of the Self. Both manas and prANa are intertwined, as can easily be perceived when our breathing goes into a jumble as we talk, which is also the case when we have thoughts besieging our mind. To steady the rhythm of breath and prANa, one should focus on a single good thought to the exclusion of all others, which is easier said than done.

    Quote Originally Posted by NayaSurya View Post
    As I sit at this keyboard using a second mind to communicate this message. I have a first mind which I also utilize very much in the same way to communicate to you. It is the tool in the hand of the wise...we feed it knowledge. Because this is the food.
    IMO, mind is like the multi-tasking operating system of a computer. The first mind is the primary thread which is always there as the dim awareness of the reflection of the Self through the bhuddhi--wisdom part of mind. The other threads are spawned by our free will/ego, and in the process we often forget about the primary thread.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    namaste everyone.

    Here is a gem of some practical advice from KAnchi ParamAchArya that has relevance to the scope of this thread:

    From the book 'Hindu Dharma: The Universal Way of Life', pp.191-192
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/8591806/Hindu-Dharma-Kanchi
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/21581029/H...al-Way-of-Life

    Consider human beings and other creatures. What is it that determines their health and feelings? The breath that passes through our nADis, blood vessels, during respiration produces vibrations and on them depends the state of our health. Those who keep their breathing under control through the practice of yoga are healthy to an amazing degree. They do not bleed even if their veins are cut. They are able to remain buried in the earth in samAdhi stopping their pulse and heartbeat. They are not poisoned even if they are bitten by a snake or stung by a scorpion. The reason is that they keep the vibrations of the nADis under control during breathing.

    Breath is vital not only to the body but also to the mind. The mind which is the source of thought and the vital (prANik) energy that is the source of breath are the same. Healthy or unhealthy thoughts are to be attributed to different vibrations of the nADis. You may test this for youself. See for yourself how you breathe when you are at peace before the sanctum of a deity or in the presence of a great and wise person and how you breathe when your mind is quickened by desire or anger. The happiness you experience when you take part in something divine, like a bhajan or a temple festival, must be different from the pleasure that sensual gratification gives you: the vibrations of the nADis concerned will also be correspondingly different.

    When you experience joy of an elevated kind the passage of breath will be through the right nostril, but when you are enjoying sensual pleasure it will be through the left. When you meditate, with increasing concentration, on the Reality Serene which is the source of all your urges and feelings, the breath will pass through both nostrils slowly, evenly and rhythmically. When you are absorbed in the object of your meditation breathing itself will cease, but there will still be life. The great awareness called jnana will then be in bloom as it were.

    The inert body of a man and the awareness that is the vital essence of his life are both dependent on the course of his breathing. They grow or decay according to it. The course of a man's breath keeps his inner vibrations in order.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  8. #8

    Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    I havent read all replies, but here is something to play with:

    sapta-jāna-bhūmikā-s or seven degrees of knowledge: (from varāha upaniṣad) might be of interest.
    We can see that its a process of removing desires (rajas) or thinning the mind, by making it sattvic (pure/steady). In that steadiness, discrimination between the real and unreal can be done...

    1. śubhecchā (good desire)
    2. vicāraṇā (inquiry)
    3. tanumānasī (thinned mind)
    4. sattvāpatti (attainment of sattva)
    5. asaṃsakti (non-attachment)
    6. padārtha-bhāvanā (analysis of objects)
    7. turīya (fourth or final stage)

    4.1. Subhechcha is said to be the first Jnana-Bhumi (or stage of wisdom); Vicharana, the second; Tanumanasi, the third;

    4.2. Sattvapatti, the fourth; then come Asamsakti as the fifth, Padartha-Bhavana as the sixth and Turya as the seventh.

    4.3. The desire that arise in one through sheer Vairagya (after resolving) Shall I be ignorant? I will be seen by the Shastras and the wise (or I will study the books and be with the wise) is termed by the wise as Subhechcha [first stage].

    4.4. The association with the wise and Shastras and the following of the right path preceding the practice of indifference is termed Vicharana [second stage].

    4.5. That stage wherein the hankering after sensual objects is thinned through the first and second stages is said to be Tanumanasi [third stage].

    4.6. That stage wherein having become indifferent to all sensual objects through the exercise in the (above) three stages, the purified Chitta rests on Atman which is of the nature of Sat is called Sattvapatti [fourth stage].

    4.7. The light (or manifestation) of Sattva-Guna that is firmly rooted (in one) without any desire for the fruits of actions through the practice in the above four stages is termed Asamsakti [fifth stage].

    4.8-9. That stage wherein through the practice in the (above) five stages one, having found delight in Atman, has no conception of the internals or externals (though before him) and engages in actions only when impelled to do so by others is termed Padartha-Bhavana, the sixth stage.

    4.10. The stage wherein after exceedingly long practice in the (above) six stages one is (immovably) fixed in the contemplation of Atman alone without the difference (of the universe) is the seventh stage called Turya.

    4.11. The (first) three stages beginning with Subhechcha are said to be attained with (or amidst) differences and non-differences. (Because) the universe one sees in the waking state he thinks to be really existent.

    4.12. When the mind is firmly fixed on the non-dual One and the conception of duality is put down, then he sees this universe as a dream through his union with the fourth stage.

    4.13. As the autumnal cloud being dispersed vanishes, so this universe perishes. O Nidagha, be convinced that such a person has only Sattva remaining.

    4.14. Then having ascended the fifth stage called Sushuptipada (dreamless sleeping seat), he remains simply in the non-dual state, being freed from all the various differences.

    4.15-16(a). Having always introvision though ever participating in external actions, those that are engaged in the practice of this (sixth stage) are seen like one sleeping when fatigued (viz., being freed from all affinities).
    4.16(b). (Lastly) the seventh stage which is the ancient and which is called Gudhasupti is generally attained.

    4.17. Then one remains in that secondless state without fear and with his consciousness almost annihilated where there is neither Sat nor Asat, neither self nor not-self.
    There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done. (sss20-15)

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    Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    Thank you Ekanta, for linking these stages to the Varaha Upanishad. These stages were not new to me, and now I know their source.

    Would someone be able to define "Gudhasupti" my online searches have not come up with a satisfactory English definition.

  10. #10

    Question Re: Seven Stages of Consciousness and the True Self Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekanta View Post
    I havent read all replies, but here is something to play with:

    sapta-jāna-bhūmikā-s or seven degrees of knowledge: (from varāha upaniṣad) might be of interest.
    We can see that its a process of removing desires (rajas) or thinning the mind, by making it sattvic (pure/steady). In that steadiness, discrimination between the real and unreal can be done...

    1. śubhecchā (good desire)
    2. vicāraṇā (inquiry)
    3. tanumānasī (thinned mind)
    4. sattvāpatti (attainment of sattva)
    5. asaṃsakti (non-attachment)
    6. padārtha-bhāvanā (analysis of objects)
    7. turīya (fourth or final stage)

    4.1. Subhechcha is said to be the first Jnana-Bhumi (or stage of wisdom); Vicharana, the second; Tanumanasi, the third;

    4.2. Sattvapatti, the fourth; then come Asamsakti as the fifth, Padartha-Bhavana as the sixth and Turya as the seventh.

    4.3. The desire that arise in one through sheer Vairagya (after resolving) Shall I be ignorant? I will be seen by the Shastras and the wise (or I will study the books and be with the wise) is termed by the wise as Subhechcha [first stage].

    4.4. The association with the wise and Shastras and the following of the right path preceding the practice of indifference is termed Vicharana [second stage].

    4.5. That stage wherein the hankering after sensual objects is thinned through the first and second stages is said to be Tanumanasi [third stage].

    4.6. That stage wherein having become indifferent to all sensual objects through the exercise in the (above) three stages, the purified Chitta rests on Atman which is of the nature of Sat is called Sattvapatti [fourth stage].

    4.7. The light (or manifestation) of Sattva-Guna that is firmly rooted (in one) without any desire for the fruits of actions through the practice in the above four stages is termed Asamsakti [fifth stage].

    4.8-9. That stage wherein through the practice in the (above) five stages one, having found delight in Atman, has no conception of the internals or externals (though before him) and engages in actions only when impelled to do so by others is termed Padartha-Bhavana, the sixth stage.

    4.10. The stage wherein after exceedingly long practice in the (above) six stages one is (immovably) fixed in the contemplation of Atman alone without the difference (of the universe) is the seventh stage called Turya.

    4.11. The (first) three stages beginning with Subhechcha are said to be attained with (or amidst) differences and non-differences. (Because) the universe one sees in the waking state he thinks to be really existent.

    4.12. When the mind is firmly fixed on the non-dual One and the conception of duality is put down, then he sees this universe as a dream through his union with the fourth stage.

    4.13. As the autumnal cloud being dispersed vanishes, so this universe perishes. O Nidagha, be convinced that such a person has only Sattva remaining.

    4.14. Then having ascended the fifth stage called Sushuptipada (dreamless sleeping seat), he remains simply in the non-dual state, being freed from all the various differences.

    4.15-16(a). Having always introvision though ever participating in external actions, those that are engaged in the practice of this (sixth stage) are seen like one sleeping when fatigued (viz., being freed from all affinities).
    4.16(b). (Lastly) the seventh stage which is the ancient and which is called Gudhasupti is generally attained.

    4.17. Then one remains in that secondless state without fear and with his consciousness almost annihilated where there is neither Sat nor Asat, neither self nor not-self.
    Now u define sevenstage as followes
    "1. śubhecchā (good desire)
    2. vicāraṇā (inquiry)
    3. tanumānasī (thinned mind)
    4. sattvāpatti (attainment of sattva)
    5. asaṃsakti (non-attachment)
    6. padārtha-bhāvanā (analysis of objects)
    7. turīya (fourth or final stage) "
    U said about "subheccha"(good desire).Then there exist question with the attribute of desire how u become enlightened?
    let take an example we assume all attribute corresponding to real no.And denote sattik attribute as Integer,rajo guna as rational no. and tamoshik attribute as irrational no.
    then apply set theory as every set of attribute denote each member of every human group or a social group of sect.Then define each human as followes,like A={1,2,1/2,5/6},B={0,9,8/7,5}etc. and S is universal set of Attribute or In other word trigunatit position or Sagun brahma.So good desire may give u the blessing of sagun brahma.but how u find nirgun brahma?not clear to me.
    2. vicāraṇā (inquiry)
    Good logic but how u enquiry the ultimate which exist in every thing?If u not find the self then wat u want to find?
    3. tanumānasī (thinned mind)
    U said "sensual objects is thinned".When u want to find the subject wat is the importance of object.That mean u want to search the element which in mathematically called "fi" or emptiness.Is it possible to realise emptiness through sensual object?
    From mathematics "fi" is only element which exist in every set,that mean exist in every being.So u need investigation of ur self or atma.
    4. sattvāpatti (attainment of sattva)
    "the purified Chitta rests on Atman which is of the nature of Sat is called Sattvapatti "
    How Chitta rest on atman when self is the only truth of desireless mind so Self consiousness person recite,
    just as a transparent crystal takes on the lines of its
    background, but is in no way changed thereby, and just as the
    unchanging moon on being reflected on undulating surfaces
    appears agitated, so is it with you, the all-pervading God.
    5. asaṃsakti (non-attachment)
    One hand u said about desire other hand u said about non-attachment.let I assumed u said about non attachment,good then u might desireless,Do u agree?
    6. padārtha-bhāvanā (analysis of objects)
    That mean u assumed brahma and self two different object.How it possible?
    two distinct set when meet only "fi" exist,that mean self or nirguna brahma.And from upanishad we know "Sarvam khallam brahma",so "fi" is brahma,but nirgun.So u not clear wat u want to analysis?
    7. turīya (fourth or final stage)
    U said "Then one remains in that secondless state without fear and with his consciousness almost annihilated where there is neither Sat nor Asat, neither self nor not-self."
    but when the mirror of mind remove its obvious that only true object exist,so in this position Atma gyani said
    "Ahom brahashmi" there is no ultimate without me.In devi sutra of Atharva veda clearly state that position.In this total system where u find fear I dont understand?pls give me light or discuss deeply.
    thanks
    Om purnam adah, purnam idam, purnat purnam udacyate; purnasya purnam adaya puram evavasisyate
    Om Santih! Santih! Santih
    That is Full; this is full. From the Full does the Full proceed. After the coming of the Full from the full, the Full alone remains
    Om. Peace! Peace! Peace!

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