Complete surrender to God

[Onkara]

Namast�
More than once I have come across the idea that complete and utter surrender to God is good. My question is have you or any one else you know taken that step and if so, what if any were the differences to your life?

By complete surrender I mean that all concerns of satisfaction, job stability, relationships, family safety etc are some how handed over to God(s).

My assumption is that although negative things may occur one is still convinced that these events are out of one's control and are completely accepted as the will of God. Does complete surrender mean fatalism in that case?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Snip : Sounds like a sannyas vow to me. If you're ready, I suppose.

Aum Namasivaya

[heartfully]

Namaste,

I'm trying to do this on a daily basis. Its hard work and I have a long way to go before I succeed, I believe.

Love to you,
hearttful

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namast�

For me it seems quiet clear - it is the surrender of the self into the Self; being into Being.

If one can do this via active mind, as a notion, that is fine... but total surrender is 100% , innocently - the oblation of self-into-Self.

This I am taught of being seated ( āsana�) in pure Being, in pure Awareness. From this,one is surrendering all of the relative field of life ( actions, thoughts, feelings, notions, etc) , every offer one can make or can be done by the self to the SELF. And who is this SELF? None other the brahman.

praṇām

words

āsana is seated, yet is also abiding , dwelling - hence 'dwelling' in the purity of Self .

[Jivattatva]

Pranam


Yes, I did -- on the intellectual level.

But not 100% on the practical, personal level. eg. how I lead my life and how I cope with the things happening in my life.



Snip asked: Does complete surrender mean fatalism in that case?


Yes, it is but with some application of common sense in living our lives.

[devotee]

Namaste Snip,

It is a constant war between my ego & complete surrender. I know, I will be successful one day ... but not yet.

What I have stated below is according to the path of Karma Yoga ... for the common men. It doesn't apply to Sannyaasis.

More than once I have come across the idea that complete and utter surrender to God is good. My question is have you or any one else you know taken that step and if so, what if any were the differences to your life?

By complete surrender I mean that all concerns of satisfaction, job stability, relationships, family safety etc are some how handed over to God(s).

My assumption is that although negative things may occur one is still convinced that these events are out of one's control and are completely accepted as the will of God. Does complete surrender mean fatalism in that case?

What do we understand by "Complete Surrender" ? Does it mean that I should stop making any efforts ? If that is what we understand by "Complete Surrender to God" then the Lord Krishna's efforts to narrate Bhagwad Gita has gone waste ! Why should Arjunja fight at all, if that is the meaning of "Complete Surrender" ? NO, NO, NO ( I think repeating three times is enough !) ... it is not fatalism.

I must surrender to the Will of God. How do I try to do it in my life ? I have made a rule for myself :

a) I try to distinguish between what I can do & what I cannot do. Like doing my work in the best possible manner, is within my control (I can try to do it that way) .... if I fail in spite of all my efforts ... it is God's wish. If my boss doesn't give me due credit ... it is God's wish. I must not be disturbed over this.
b) I must do what I can.
c) I must leave everything to God what I cannot.
d) Results are not in my control. So, I must not be anxious over the results ... I must accept all results with equanimity.
e) I must accept all environment (parents, wife, children, friends, society, job, boss, country etc. etc. ) coming to me by chance with equanimity.

OM

[Onkara]

Thank you all for your replies
You have given me much to consider, in fact based on your replies I see some challanges arising from my initial question. Specfically, if complete surrender to God is possible then it implies that there is a duality in the sense that there must be something different to surrender to (i.e. God) from that which is surrendered (i.e. Me and you). This implies a change of direction from non-dualism towards dualism of Jiva and Lord, and I need to consider this further from a philosophical perspective.

Thanks again.

[smaranam]

Thank you all for your replies
You have given me much to consider, in fact based on your replies I see some challanges arising from my initial question. Specfically, if complete surrender to God is possible then it implies that there is a duality in the sense that there must be something different to surrender to (i.e. God) from that which is surrendered (i.e. Me and you). This implies a change of direction from non-dualism towards dualism of Jiva and Lord, and I need to consider this further from a philosophical perspective.

Thanks again.

Namaste Snip

"As long as I have a form as jiva, the Lord also has a form, and so does the world" This can be a shock when in Dvaita.

Giving up that last bit of ego that wants seperate existence, be it to serve Him , see Him, be with Him. This is Ultimate SharNAgati (complete surrender) , and happens only once.

Once I surrender my ego completely, I simply look at BMI doing its own thing as a Leela. All around I see my own glories. There is a catch here. I cannot let BMI do anything, because hurting anyone or anything is hurting myself.

----

Also, look at Yajvanji's message, so beautiful. He is that very Shiva seated in the Self, the innocence mentioned, belongs to BholenAth (Shankar, Shiva). The same innocence can be seen in Krshna's Lotus Eyes when He flutters them and says "MaiyA, I did not steal that butter. I did not snatch milk from other people's cows, MaiyA, the cow gave it to Me!"

-----------------

However, even from the Dvaita plane, there is beauty in surrender. Also,
while adhering to Advaita philosophy, we have to be in the world, hence on the vyavahAric plane - relative truth, as you mentioned yourself, for worldly transaction, but without ignorance.

Surrender to God on the Dvaita OR VyavahAric plane means

* marching in step with Him.

* flowing with the flow of Ganga that emerges at His Lotus Feet

If you are doing things that take effort that disturbs the Self inside, know that it is in a direction opposite to the current.

* Turning inwards to the AntaryAmi (inner Self) and pray to Him to guide and lead

* Practicing Karma Yoga - svadharma, nishkAm karma , do prescribed duties only without expecting or worrying about results, - as Devoteeji has described.

* Being an instrument of God when it comes to the rest of the world, and not acting out of ego, not keeping an independant agenda to serve the ego.

* Surrendered one has no fear or worries, only love.
Ramanujacharya calls surrender "prapatti". His school , Vishishtadvaita , looks at 2 theories

a. Be the kitten that gets carried by the Cat in Her mouth. Kitten is completely in the "mouth"/hands of the Divine Supreme to do what He wants with her.

b. Be the little monkey that hangs on to Mother. Here its the monkey's job to take care not to fall

I prefer being the kitten.

Hanuman had a 3rd view "My Lord (RAm) , carrying you on my back , You will have no choice but to hold on to me, 'cause otherwise You will fall off !"


PraNAm

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


What is action , what is inaction? Even the wise are bewildered here - so says Kṛṣṇa (Bhāgavad gītā 4.16). This suggests what we do and how we do it. This considers one's daily activities ( work, play, etc.) and one's sādhana¹.

Well why do we need to know and understand this? Because in Chapter 3, 30th śloka, Kṛṣṇa advises us to 'surrender all actions to me' . Yet people tend to miss the key words He offers - adhyātma ( belonging to Self, Supreme) cetasā or the recovery (cetas) of Self Awareness, Being. Note cetas is rooted in cit. Cit means 'knowing' , 'giving heed to' .
So this says adhyātma cetasā = knowing the Self ( knowing, giving heed to, recovery of the Self or Supreme Consciousness).

See the wisdom here ? We give, surrender, offer ourselves to the Supreme via knowing, being established, offering being possessed by the Supreme Self - our Being, brahman, fullness of consciousness.

So, when we are engaged in the actions of our duties, we do them to the best of our ability....some are able to 'surrender' these actions to the Lord and this is fine, good. But there is another part too - that we surrender to the Self, give up 'give heed to' i.e. cetasā , and this is NOT done by a conversation in one's mind, or in one's action of duty of work. It is done by giving up the self to the SELF. That is, innocently experiencing pure Self, pure consciousness, pure Being, pure Awareness.

This is done via technique via sādhana ( Some like to call upāya&#185 . It is not done via mood making or chasing thoughts.

Also - this is not one-way or the other approach. One can do sādhana during activity and during one's inward stoke of meditation. Many, in the beginning of pursuing a spiritual endeavor begin with meditation, the inward stroke. This brings peace and also interest of the Supreme. Then this spills into activity and what one does, what one selects to do, read, think. Over time the infusion continues.

If in the beginning you try and do too much people get overwhelmed and has little results , then say this is too much for me to do. Like that we keep a nice pace, a consistency and move forward. If we fall down and go back to past habits we just get back up - it is that simple.

So, why do I mention all this...because one word that comes up is effort. Effort. Self-effort is good when one wants to achieve a result while working, accomplishing. In America this is top-of-mind for the career minded person.

In sādhana , it takes on a new role - effort needs to be simple intent. Its subtler then strenuous effort of push and pushing. In fact there is an inverse relation to effort and spiritual sādhana and upāyae's practiced. The more effort the less settling down of the mind. Effort creates strain, strain minimizes the mind's ability to settle-down into itself.
So, my teacher would instruct us ' do less and accomplish more' until one does nothing and accomplishes everything. But in this context, what is 'everything' ? Samāveśa samādhi ; samāveśa = absorption into , entering + samādhi is balanced mind, pure awareness, perfect stillness . This is Kṛṣṇa's adhyātma cetasā = knowing the Self. This connects this experience/condition back to the Bhāgavad gītā.

praṇām

words

• sādhana - we know as spiritual pursuit - this word is defined as any means of effecting or accomplishing; any agent or instrument or implement or utensil or apparatus , an expedient , requisite . It also means accomplishment, performace; leading straight to a goal , guiding well
• upāya - that by which one reaches one's aim , a means or expedient (of any kind) , way , strategy, craft

[devotee]

Namaste Snip,

Specfically, if complete surrender to God is possible then it implies that there is a duality in the sense that there must be something different to surrender to (i.e. God) from that which is surrendered (i.e. Me and you). This implies a change of direction from non-dualism towards dualism of Jiva and Lord, and I need to consider this further from a philosophical perspective.

Please read Yajvan ji's explanation which is the echo of the highest Truth. Regarding your surrendering, duality & non-duality confusion ... my thinking is ...

We should not fly from one state to the other ... & get confused. The Reality manifests in four states as you know ... the waking, dreaming, deep sleep & Turiya. Your thought of joining "surrender" with Non-duality is like joining waking state with Turiya. This is not done ... it can't be understood this way. You know that there is no "separate" God in Turiya ... so, does it mean that "you" or "I" are God ? You can't have "I", "You" & all being God-consciousness as the reality is in Turiya ... all simultaneously. Perfect Non-duality comes only in Turiya. In Turiya there is no separate "God" ( as we understand), there is no "You" and there is no "surrender".

As long as there is "I", there is duality ... & there is God .... as real as "I" is .... and there is a need to surrender .... as real as the "I" & God.

OM