A few basic questions

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté wcrow (et.al)

I see many have given you an answer... devotee suggests taking your time and this is a good notion - we will be here. So, ask questions; doubt (saṃśaya&#185 via questions and proper answers hones viveka¹ (discrimination) i.e. the ability to discern a correct view of the world.

Please note too that veda is from vid, true knowledge. It is not historical record in the purest sense - if we wish history ( his-story) then we look to the itihāsa-s. This word is made up of iti + ha + āsa which means so (thus) it was or thus spoken i.e. history.

What is an example of itihāsa-s ? the Rāmayāṇa or/and the Mahābhārata. We can go deeper and wider into the ved (veda's) but that is not your question.

You ask of the Supreme also considered anuttara. This word anuttara means chief, principle - the wise say this word means that which cannot be surpassed, we may call it ultimate, of that which has no equal. And in our view of this anuttara in sanātana dharma (hinduism) there is this Supreme, yet it is known by many names.

Let me offer a hymn from ṛg (rig) veda I.164.46, and ṛṣi dīrghatamas. He informs us:

indraṃ mitraṃ varuṇamaghnimāhuratho divyaḥ sa suparṇo gharutmān |
ekaṃ sad viprā bahudhā vadantyaghniṃ yamaṃ mātariśvānamāhuḥ ||

I do not expect you to read this or know this - so if I may let me assist and pick out the most salient point. The key words here are ekaṃ sad viprā bahudhā. It says, Truth (sad - existence , essence, Brahman) is One ( ekaṃ ), the sages (vipra - ṛṣi-s) call it variously (bahudhā).

You see wcrow, this Supreme is so great ( brahman means, great, expansive) is so incompassing there is no thing that It is not; Hence It is śiva, kṛṣṇa, pārvatī, śakti, maha-viṣṇu, bharava, bharavi, etc. - all of the most high, most adored devatā , Divine and īśvara ( Great Lord) that resides within our community.
This Supreme is not exhausted, never constrained, no limits what so ever - perfectly Supreme and independent. For this you will see mutiple views and opinions of one's most adored Lord on HDF and other places that offer hindu/sanātana dharma values.
Truth is one, the sages ( and even us) call it variously... that is the point to appreciate.

It is like the example given by the wise...
4 blindfolded men are asked to stand next to this thing ( an elephant) and define what he 'sees' via touch or feel. One says, 'this thing is like a big tree' ( touching a leg); another says 'oh no, this is more like a gentle snake' (as the elephant carresses his head); another says 'that cannot be' as he is fanned by the elephant's large ears and suggests it to be a fan of some sort; the other says 'you all must be wrong' , as he touches the elephant's belly and suggests a huge bellowing rough-and-hairy baloon of some sort.

You see when we try to inform you of our elephant ( the Supreme, anuttara) we touch the Supreme in all differnt ways, yet it is still the elephant.
Like that we are different, like that we are all touching the same Supreme.

praṇām

words

• saṃśaya is uncertainty , irresolution , hesitation , doubt
• viveka true knowledge , discretion , right judgement , the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties

[ScottMalaysia]

If it was the Kali temple, then you're probably a Shaktite.
If it was the Siva temple, then you're most likely a Saivite.
If it was the Krishna temple, then you're a Vaishavite.
If you really couldn't decide, you're a Smarta.
If none of them made any sense at all, you're not a Hindu.

What if it was one like ours with Ganesh, Seeta-Rama-Lakshman, Radha-Krishna, Shiva-Parvati and Hanuman?

Many Hindus in India (and Malaysia) are not sectarian. An Indian might pray to Goddess Durga but not consider himself a Shakta. A Malaysian might be a devotee of Krishna but he might have never heard the term "Vaishnava".

Generally, a Hindu chooses one God as his "Ishta Devata" (chosen divinity). This is the main God/Goddess that he prays to. My Ishta Devata is Amman (Goddess Durga).

[wcrow]

Back to square one ! Drop your Christian mind-set first & then read the answers again. It is already stated above.

May be you are too young to understand all this. Sit down & relax ... there is no such hurry.

OM

I don't think I have a christian mindset. You see, In my religion the practical is the most important thing, and all of the gods are important - we can't change practice just because we think one god is more imporant than the others. It is very different in hinduism, it seems.

If it was the Kali temple, then you're probably a Shaktite.
If it was the Siva temple, then you're most likely a Saivite.
If it was the Krishna temple, then you're a Vaishavite.
If you really couldn't decide, you're a Smarta.
If none of them made any sense at all, you're not a Hindu.

This makes a lot more sense in a religion where all gods are just faces of the one, it would just be semantics then, wouldn't it?


Sorry I couldn't get quotes for this last one:

"It is like the example given by the wise...
4 blindfolded men are asked to stand next to this thing ( an elephant) and define what he 'sees' via touch or feel. One says, 'this thing is like a big tree' ( touching a leg); another says 'oh no, this is more like a gentle snake' (as the elephant carresses his head); another says 'that cannot be' as he is fanned by the elephant's large ears and suggests it to be a fan of some sort; the other says 'you all must be wrong' , as he touches the elephant's belly and suggests a huge bellowing rough-and-hairy baloon of some sort.

You see when we try to inform you of our elephant ( the Supreme, anuttara) we touch the Supreme in all differnt ways, yet it is still the elephant.
Like that we are different, like that we are all touching the same Supreme."

This has cleared it up for me. Thankyou all.

My last question is about worship. How + why do you people worship? Is there a set amount of worship is required/reccomended to do?

[Eastern Mind]

Vanakkam Scott: Even in Smarta temples like the one you describe, an individual would probably lean more to a certain shrine. If not, well then, they're pretty Smarta.

I've also heard the terms 'leaning toward' a lot. Such as officially Smarta, but leaning towards Saiva. Or Saiva leaning towards Shaktite. Clearly everyone is different and therefore has a different take. My explanation was just very simple. An extremely introductory lesson if you will. You and I and anyone else who's been around for a while knows that it is far more complicated. Take the Balinese Hindu for example, or the Surinam one, or the Mauritian.

This complexity is hard to explain to a beginner like wcrow. Its even hard to explain to a Hindu from India who hasn't traveled much.

As far as Ganesha goes, most Hindus, other than the Ganapatyan sect don't see him as a choice for the Supreme. But your current temple is very typical of many North Indian style temples. In the Southern style, I've never heard the 'Jay Jagadisha Hare' aarti song .. ever.

Regardless, if wcrow is actually leaning towards Hinduism, he'll find out. If he still has a ton of Christianity stuff to dump, he'll never figure all this out. It is very difficult to come out of simplicity black/white philosophy and start seeing everything in shades of grey.

I think the concept of 'Ishta-Devata' in itself, I believe is a Smarta concept, initiated by Shankara in his attempt to unify all of the Hindu religions. Surely someone else here can elaborate more. I am no expert.

It is common in the west to build Siva-Vishnu temples, mostly out of monetary issues. A notable exception is in Atlanta where on the same piece of land, they built two separate temples that stand alone.

Aum Namasivaya

[ScottMalaysia]

Vanakkam Scott: Even in Smarta temples like the one you describe, an individual would probably lean more to a certain shrine. If not, well then, they're pretty Smarta.

I don't think that it's a Smarta temple. From what I know, Smartas worship five forms of God: Ganesha, Shiva, Vishnu, Durga and Surya (the Sun God). Smartas are also very strict and orthodox, and don't allow conversion.

As far as Ganesha goes, most Hindus, other than the Ganapatyan sect don't see him as a choice for the Supreme.

Most Hindus would say that He is one of the many forms of the Supreme.

But your current temple is very typical of many North Indian style temples. In the Southern style, I've never heard the 'Jay Jagadisha Hare' aarti song .. ever.

You can listen to the song and watch a video of the arati here.

I've never seen it used in Southern temples, either. Generally, bhajans aren't sung in South Indian style temples. The worship seems to be quite individualistic. Yes, at the puja times, many devotees will often come and line up to worship, but it's just between them and God. Once they've prayed and received the blessing and sacred compounds, they'll leave. The North Indian style temples, however, often have congregational worship, with slokas, bhajans and a discourse on the Bhagavad-Gita kind of like a sermon.

I personally have to say that I prefer the North Indian style temples myself, but possibly this is because the very first temple I saw was an ISKCON one, which had marble Deities. However, I do like the South Indian Goddess Mariamman (although I pray to Her in the form of Durga at my local temple).

It is common in the west to build Siva-Vishnu temples, mostly out of monetary issues. A notable exception is in Atlanta where on the same piece of land, they built two separate temples that stand alone.

Yes, well Shiva and Vishnu are among the two most popular Gods in Hinduism. If you have a Hindu community of both Vaishnavas and Saivites, but there aren't enough of them to support two temples, then one temple with both Gods would seem to be the perfect solution.

A question for Eastern Mind: Have you seen South Indian Vaishnava temples? If you have, what are they like? Are the puja rituals much different from the South Indian Saiva temples?
(I've seen a Krishna temple in Singapore, but the people were sitting on the floor for some ceremony when I was there, so I didn't really get a chance to look around. When I visited the Sundaraja Perumal (Vishnu) temple in Klang, it was shut).

[Eastern Mind]

A question for Eastern Mind: Have you seen South Indian Vaishnava temples? If you have, what are they like? Are the puja rituals much different from the South Indian Saiva temples?
(I've seen a Krishna temple in Singapore, but the people were sitting on the floor for some ceremony when I was there, so I didn't really get a chance to look around. When I visited the Sundaraja Perumal (Vishnu) temple in Klang, it was shut).

I have never been in a straight up Vishnu one, but I assume they are a lot like other South Indian temples. I have been in ones that had Venkateswara shrines. Granite, abhishekams, Brahmins only etc. Saidevo will be able to inform us.

Aum Namasivaya

[saidevo]

namaste Everyone.

The concepts of the rituals in the Shiva-VaiShNava temples are more or less the same, although the scriptural readings differ widely. More than the Shaivites, the VaiShNavas are passionate about the 4000 Divya Prabandham hymns composed by their AzhvArs in Tamil, and these hymns they regularly recite in their daily pujas. In most temples in TN these days, aartil is waved with an oil or ghee lamp instead of burning camphor as camphor smoke is found harmful to the deity images.

A speciality of the VaiShNava temples is that when a group of devotees come by seeking darshan of the PerumAL--ViShNu image or ThAyAr--LakShmI image, the priest shows the arti to each feature of the deity, explaining its significance. He also gives some hints about the sthala purANam--local legends and the history of the temple. Along with the aarti flame, some tuLasi leaves are also given to the devotees, followed by holy water, and then the priest touches the devotees' heads with a silver crown on which are inscribed the lotus feet of PeriyAzhvAr. In the ThAyAr sannidhi, kumkumam is given as prasAdam.

Here is an article about the MAdhava PerumAL temple, Mylapore, which was one of my favourite VaiShNava temples: http://www.indianetzone.com/27/sri_m...outh_india.htm