New Member
I re-iterate, that at-least as per gaudiya vaisnava tradition, Visnu-tattva is Supreme, all others (anya-devatas) are not at par than him. This is our sidhhanta.Originally Posted by ScottMalaysia
My understanding is that Sri Vaisnava tradition also beleived that Visnu-tattva alone is Supreme, but I might be wrong. You can ask this question in Sri vaisnava community.
Hare Krsna.
This question is more to do with the general differences in vaishnavaism and adviata rather than ISKCON. Here is the word for word.
mām — unto Me; ca — also; yaḥ — a person who; avyabhicāreṇa — without fail; bhakti-yogena — by devotional service; sevate — renders service; saḥ — he; guṇān — the modes of material nature; samatītya — transcending; etān — all these; brahma-bhūyāya — elevated to the Brahman platform; kalpate — becomes.
14.26
One who engages in full devotional service, unfailing in all circumstances, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman.
14.27
brahmaṇaḥ — of the impersonal brahmajyoti; hi — certainly; pratiṣṭhā — the rest; aham — I am; amṛtasya — of the immortal; avyayasya — of the imperishable; ca — also; śāśvatasya — of the eternal; ca — and; dharmasya — of the constitutional position; sukhasya — of happiness; aikāntikasya — ultimate; ca — also.
And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.
I know a few people on this thread have suggested reading a so-called "neutral" translation. However Krishna himself and arjunas example in the Gita gives the science to understand the Gita. This knowledge cant be actually understood by faithless scholarship. With faithless scholarship we get a mundane superficial academic understanding of the gita.
If one wants to understand the gita one should approach someone who fits into how Lord Krishna describes the quality of one who has understaood the Gita.
Chapter 6, Verse 46.
A yogi is greater than the ascetic, greater than the empiricist and greater than the fruitive worker. Therefore, O Arjuna, in all circumstances, be a yogi. Chapter 6, Verse 47.
10.10
To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.
Below he describes the qualities of a student and saintly person.
2.7
Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of miserly weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me for certain what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.
4.34
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.
13.8-12
Humility; pridelessness; nonviolence; tolerance; simplicity; approaching a bona fide spiritual master; cleanliness; steadiness; self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification; absence of false ego; the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease; detachment; freedom from entanglement with children, wife, home and the rest; even-mindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me; aspiring to live in a solitary place; detachment from the general mass of people; accepting the importance of self-realization; and philosophical search for the Absolute Truth -- all these I declare to be knowledge, and besides this whatever there may be is ignorance.
12.5For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.
12.6-7
But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Pṛthā — for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.
BG 18.64: Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you My supreme instruction, the most confidential knowledge of all. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit.
BG 18.65: Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.
BG 18.66: Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.
BG 18.67: This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.
BG 18.68: For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.
BG 18.71: And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from sinful reactions and attains to the auspicious planets where the pious dwell.
Pranams ScottMalaysia
Yes most vaishnavas believe this and have for thousands of years (academic dating) millions of years (scriptual perspective) they make up a large percentage of Hinduism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishnavism
Its because of Gaudiya vashnavism in the west primarily ISKCON, people have become aware of this rather than the advaitic version of the scriptures which other movements in the west have spread and generally people associated with Hinduism. Therefore there is sometimes the misconception among some that this is only an ISKCON thing.
NewSoul
The very basic meaning of Vaishnavaism means, worshiping Shri Vishnu as Supreme and yes all the Vaishnavas Shri Vishnu is the Supreme.
Aum Namaḥ Śiva
I would like to comment on this a bit. I'm not a Vaishnavite so maybe I'm just missing something here. Couldn't it be quite possible that the meaning of the statement is that he was never impersonal in that people generally believe that any kind of god-force in any religion is held to such a level above the rest of existence that people have difficulties truly identifying with it? Maybe it implies that "he" has always been there and has a very personal relationship with all of existence.
I'm not trying to be offensive, just trying to stimulate some conversation. ISKCON's ideals seem a little narrow minded and seems to throw off other possible interpretations of the knowledge in the Gita. Not to say "you're doing it wrong" by any means. But sometimes its good to try to read a little deeper. If you continuously take scriptural wisdom for it's literal face value, that is how you wind up with things like the modern Christian church. Not to say that's the direction ISKCON is heading, I just like reminding people to try to keep an open mind
(Also, apologies if this is too off topic for this thread. I'm still getting used to the general posting guidelines enforced on this forum.)
New Member
I received my Chidbhavananda translation of the Gita at the weekend, in the package I sent from Malaysia. I thought I'd provide an alternate translation and commentary of the verses in question.
And he who serves me with an unswerving devotion, he, going beyond the Gunas, is fitted for becoming Brahman. (14:26)
Extreme devotion surges in the heart of the devotee who has made himself over to the Lord. He has nothing but Narayana to cognize both within and without. The intense fervour ends with his becoming Brahman. As darkness disappears when light comes, the three Gunas disappear when the dawn of the Brahma-jnana takes its place.
The devotee sees Iswara in many forms. But when he gets into Samadhi this very Iswara is realized by him as the formless Infinite Nirguna Brahman. It is in this realisation that Bhakti and Jnana get harmonized.
- Sri Ramakrishna
For I am the Abode of Brahman, the Immortal, and the Immutable, the Eternal Dharma and Absolute Bliss. (14:27)
All the four Yogas are herein harmonized. Bhakti and the attainment of the Saguna Brahman through it have been explained in the previous stanza . The Immortal and the Immutable Brahman or the Nirguna Brahman is reached by Jnana yoga. By serving the Lord through Karma yoga, the Eternal Dharma or the Sanatana Dharma which is another name for Brahman is made one's own. The practice of Raja yoga culminates in the creation of Amrita dhara, the Divine Nectar which provides Absolute Bliss which is another name for Brahman. Thus all the four yogas are paths by pursuing which the sadhaka gets beyond the three Gunas. The right course is to adopt all these four yogas simultaneously. He who does so traverses the three Gunas and gets into Brahman who is supremely beyond them.
This is the answer to the last question.
Mythology has it that the Lord Siva made elaborate preparations to invade and lay siege to the iron, silver and golden citadels of three mighty Asuras who were invincible. Finally, the great Lord's opening His divine eye resulted in the total destruction of the Demons and their domains. This is a mythological presentation of the transcendence of the three Gunas with the aid of Self-knowledge.
Men of poor understanding think of Me, the unmanifest, as having manifestation, not knowing My supreme state — immutable and unsurpassed. (7.24)
A benevolent and charitably-minded millionaire may be in rags occasionally just for the fun of it. If a beggar misunderstands him as one in rags and passes by without availing himself of the rich man's charity, the poor man becomes poorer for his ignorance. Such verily is the lot of those ignorant of the glory of Iswara.
An Incarnation of God, like Sri Krishna, assumes a human body, just as the bound souls do. But he is no more bound in the manifested body than the sky seen through a window is bound within the frame of that window. The manifested body of Sri Krishna is mutable; but in reality He is immutable and unsurpassed by the ordinary human beings. His supreme state remains unknown to the people of poor understanding. They do not therefore seek to worship Him.
NewSoul
Dear Scott,
Have you wondered after all your thoughts, posts here that even dear Chidbhavananda might be translating the BG inline with his philosophy which you ought to believe non-sectarian?
New Member
Swami Chidbhavananda does not translate the Gita according to any sect.
NewSoul
How are you so sure about it?
Its not about right or wrong and hear me properly, He belongs to one of the school of Indian thought
The point is, with your faith and love, you consider Swami Chidbhavananda's translation as fit and right and be it true to you.
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottMalaysia
Swami Chidbhavananda does not translate the Gita according to any sect.
How is that possible?
Where did he get the name, SWAMI, awarded to Him?
Where did he find this Gita Book that you speak of?
Scott, you are planting the seeds of a sect of your own making with your postings.
The translation of the Gita is not copywright-able; because it is self-evident. Take the Gitas message verbatim, IOW, the Gita message is good enough as it is, without reading between the lines for hidden messages.
A person can be supremely confident in reading A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami's presentation literally.
The Gita's message should be taken literally.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks