CONCEPT OF GOD IN ISLAM

[TruthSeeker]

Namaste SkillGanon,

Hinduism.


“The almighty God does not have to take a form and come down. Many religion at some point believe in the philosophy of anthromorphism. (God becoming a Human).
The contention is that almighty God is so pure and holy that he is unaware of the hardships, shortcoming, feeling of the human beings. In order to set rules for human being he needs to come down to earth as a human.
Why does he need to come down, if God wanted he can make you come up?
“To him it is the return.”
Next importantly, FIrst there is one God, Next God is not begotten.

Remember God is unborn. It is mentioned in the Yajurved.
Meaning he is not born.
Soon as one say he is born in any sense. One is going again one’s scriptures.

I dont think we have a common platform to discuss this issue. Is there a logical way to prove that God can or cannot incarnate on earth? Hindu Dharma says that every man is an incarnation of various degrees, so why there cannot be a full incarnation? Obviously we differ here, and I respect your own views and freedom to beleive otherwise. God would come on earth, only if you want to. Else you can go and see him in heaven.

This is a fallacy. People think they have a choice who God is. So they choose their God according to their whim and desire , meaning they attribute to God of their own choosing. One can’t choose a man to be God, even if they claim themselves of it.

Have you seen Allah? Has anyone on earth ever have? Then why beleive in the existance of this God? No use in making statements like no one has seen because Allah is incomprehnsible. There is no use with such a concept. There has to be a comprehensible form of God to do anything with it, else it is not any different from voidism. When you think of God, something comes to your mind, no? Or do you just think of blankness? So there has to be some object or model everyone assigns to God to be of any meaning. Hindus usually imagine their beloved dieites when you mention the name God. That is not the true form of God, but that is what is possible until the time you know what or who God is.

Our scriptures say that God exists everywhere, and hence his existance should be verifiable right here on earth.( no need of going to heaven) Until you know God, I dont see any problems in assuming God to be of specific characteristics that you like. This is the standard dogma that has caused all religeous strife in the world - by claiming only one model of God is valid.

I doubt it.
How so? If they have the same conciouseness than they should be all-knowing. This is clearly not so, when it comes to any creation claiming themselves as God.


Are you saying the creator of the universe is not absolute and eternal?
What does hindu scripture say?
Since you already accept “the creator” I do not need to make you believe Allah exist.


but remember God is unborn, neither he has parents.
Check one’s own scriptures.

God is both absolute and eternal, and is also immanent in creation. What did God create everthing from - NOTHING? That is shunyavada only. Regarding our scriputues, the absolute Allah was certainly born as Sri Krishna, so no need to check further.

Secondly there is “non-like unto him”, if one that makes a claim they have or in someway has God conciouseness than they are not God.

Really? So all your religion talks of God is, without verifying anything, eh? Here our sages have verified the existance of God and always immersed in that consciousness -- you can also do too - no superstitions.

[Znanna]

It is my understanding that ALLAH requires submission.

Everything else is just a prescription for getting *that*.



Namaste,
ZN

[saidevo]

Namaste Skill,

I liked your explanation of the term Allah for the One God that most religions talk of. The equivalent of Allah in Hinduism is Brahman with identical connotations.

Hindu Upanishads describe Brahman as:

Brahman is the indescribable, inexhaustible, omniscient, omnipresent, original, first, eternal and absolute principle who is without a beginning, without an end, who is hidden in all and who is the cause, source, material and effect of all creation known, unknown and yet to happen in the entire universe.

He is the incomprehensible, unapproachable radiant being whom the ordinary senses and ordinary intellect cannot fathom, grasp or able to describe even with partial success. He is the mysterious Being totally out of the reach of all sensory activity, rationale effort and mere intellectual, decorative and pompous endeavor.

Source: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/brahman.asp

Now, let us discuss the aspects you have given from Qur'an, of this One God:

"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute."

In the same way that Brahman is Eternal, Absolute. So, only the name differs, not the concept, and the point is, there is no such thing as one name is superior to the other for the One God. After all, who is giving such names? We, the mortal humans, with our own idiosyncracies. Allah is not sore because he can also be called Brahman, and vice versa, so why should we be?

"He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him."
[Al-Qur’an 112:1-4]

'nor is He begotten' is true in the absolute sense, as Vedanta says. If 'He begets not', what about the universe? How did it originate, who created it? If God did not create the universe, it would mean that He has limitations.

But His grasp is over
All vision: He is
Above all comprehension,
Yet is acquainted with all things."
[Al-Qur’an 6:103]

His acquaintence with all things points to the aspect of omniscience. Sure, He is above all comprehension, and much more.

"There is nothing whatever like unto Him."
[Al-Qur’an 42:11]

Yes, Ekam evadvitiyam brahma - Brahman is one, without a second.

The Qur’an says:
"Allah is never unjust In the least degree."
[Al-Qur’an 4:40]

"…my Lord never errs, nor forgets."
[Al-Qur’an 20:52]

These may be interpreted as pointing to the Law of Karma, similar to the words of Jesus who said, "As you sow so you will reap." Since I think Islam has the concepts of eternal heaven or eternal hell, (with no reincarnation for the souls), these words are meant to prompt humans to do only good or else be damned.

However, in reality, good and bad are both inherent in humans, so none deserves an eternal heaven or an eternal hell. What happens to these ordinary humans after death?

The Islamic concept of God is that God has power over all things. The Qur’an says in several places (Al -Qur’an 2:106; 2:109; 2:284; 3:29; 16:77; and 35:1): "For verily Allah has power over all things"

Further, the Glorious Qur’an says:
"Allah is the doer of all that He intends."

God is almighty, and no one can question His actions. This again is a warning to humans to avoid doing evil things.

Concepts and interpretations of God is a product of the Culture and Civilization in which they are formed. The depth and universality of such concepts and inquiries into the One Absolute Truth is intertwined with the freedom of individual inquiry and realization, and the willingness to admit multiplicity of paths to the same source. No other religion except Sanatana Dharma has this freedom, which accounts for the profoundness, loftiness and universality of its philosophy.

At least most religions agree that the Truth is One. And dharmic religions have the maturity to admit that the paths are many.

ekam sat, vipra bahudha vadanti -- Rg Veda I.164.46
Truth is One, the Wise call It by many names.

[Skillganon]

Namaste SkillGanon,

Wassalam TruthSeeker.

I dont think we have a common platform to discuss this issue.

I respect that it comes to that point among many people.

Is there a logical way to prove that God can or cannot incarnate on earth? Hindu Dharma says that every man is an incarnation of various degrees, so why there cannot be a full incarnation?

Here again, God is not a human being. One cannot attribute of God that is attributed to Human or anthing of his creation.
Why can't God incarnate, is because he does not need to. To him is the return.

Anyway “There is no likeness of him”. (“Na tasya pratima asti” [upinishad Chapter. 4]

Soon as you say he God incarnate to “this form” than “this incarnation” is not God.

For the simple reason God is one without a second, and the simple reason I stated earlier.

Obviously we differ here, and I respect your own views and freedom to beleive otherwise. God would come on earth, only if you want to. Else you can go and see him in heaven.

God does not need to come to earth, one comes to him, because to him is the return.

Have you seen Allah? Has anyone on earth ever have? Then why beleive in the existance of this God? No use in making statements like no one has seen because Allah is incomprehnsible. There is no use with such a concept. There has to be a comprehensible form of God to do anything with it, else it is not any different from voidism. When you think of God, something comes to your mind, no? Or do you just think of blankness? So there has to be some object or model everyone assigns to God to be of any meaning. Hindus usually imagine their beloved dieites when you mention the name God.

God is not in his creation, and he has no likeness. Once people realise that, the rest of the thing is materialistic.

“nainam urdhvam na tiryancam na madhye na parijagrabhat na tasya pratima asti yasya nama mahad yasah”

people imagining their God as deity, while there is no likeness of God is a problem, but not mine.
Who and What God is, is still mentioned in ones scriptures, I am sure.

That is not the true form of God,

but that is what is possible until the time you know what or who God is.

And one will realise this

Say: "Say: He is Allah,

The One and Only

"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute.

"He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him."
[Al-Qur’an 112:1-4]

Our scriptures say that God exists everywhere, and hence his existance should be verifiable right here on earth.( no need of going to heaven)
Until you know God, I dont see any problems in assuming God to be of specific characteristics that you like. This is the standard dogma that has caused all religeous strife in the world - by claiming only one model of God is valid.

And there is no likeness of him. He is not his creation. So one can’t.

God’s sight is everywhere.
“No vision can grasp him. But his grasp is over all vision: he is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things”.

God is both absolute and eternal, and is also immanent in creation. What did God create everthing from - NOTHING? That is shunyavada only.

'nor is He begotten' is true in the absolute sense, as Vedanta says. If 'He begets not', what about the universe? How did it originate, who created it? If God did not create the universe, it would mean that He has limitations.

Creator of the heavens and the earth from nothingness, He has only to say when He wills a thing: “Be,” and it is] (Al-Baqarah 2:117) and, [That is how God creates what He wills, when He decrees a thing, He says “Be,” and it is] (Aal `Imran 3:47).

Regarding our scriputues, the absolute Allah was certainly born as Sri Krishna, so no need to check further.

There is one God.
God is not born.

Yajurveda, Chapter 32, Verse 3, which says,
“Na tasya pratima asti”

Does he qualify?
I don’t think so. So he is not God. Unless if it nothing but a name just a name.

[One God is known by many name]

Really? So all your religion talks of God is, without verifying anything, eh? Here our sages have verified the existance of God and always immersed in that consciousness -- you can also do too - no superstitions.

What sages? I am not clear on what you mean.

Peace

SKill.

[Skillganon]

Namaste Skill,

I liked your explanation of the term Allah for the One God that most religions talk of. The equivalent of Allah in Hinduism is Brahman with identical connotations.
Hindu Upanishads describe Brahman as:

Wassalam.
Thanks, and thanks for the link.

In the same way that Brahman is Eternal, Absolute. So, only the name differs, not the concept, and the point is, there is no such thing as one name is superior to the other for the One God. After all, who is giving such names? We, the mortal humans, with our own idiosyncracies. Allah is not sore because he can also be called Brahman, and vice versa, so why should we be?

I see no problem.

Say: "Call upon God, or call upon The All-Compassionate: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between". (Quran 17:110)

What does brahman mean?

Yes, Ekam evadvitiyam brahma - Brahman is one, without a second.

Similar to what is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 1, “Say he is Allah one and only"

I think one missed.

and "There is nothing whatever like unto Him."
[Al-Qur’an 42:11]

“Na tasya pratima asti” “There is no likeness of him”.[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]

However, in reality, good and bad are both inherent in humans, so none deserves an eternal heaven or an eternal hell. What happens to these ordinary humans after death?

We can discuss this in another thread later.

God is almighty, and no one can question His actions. This again is a warning to humans to avoid doing evil things.

I agree.

Concepts and interpretations of God is a product of the Culture and Civilization in which they are formed. The depth and universality of such concepts and inquiries into the One Absolute Truth is intertwined with the freedom of individual inquiry and realization, and the willingness to admit multiplicity of paths to the same source.

Not really but we can discuss this many path to God in another thread.

ekam sat, vipra bahudha vadanti -- Rg Veda I.164.46
Truth is One, the Wise call It by many names.

I agree.

Peace.

Skill.

[Skillganon]

Salam All.

First Allah has no gender, and next the name "Allah" cannot be played with.

"The Muslims prefer calling the Supreme Creator, Allah, instead of by the English word God. The Arabic word, Allah, is pure and unique, unlike the English word God, which can be played around with.

If you add s to the word God, it becomes Gods, that is the plural of God. Allah is one and singular, there is no plural of Allah. If you add 'dess' to the word God, it becomes Goddess that is a female God. There is nothing like male Allah or female Allah. Allah has no gender. If you add the word father to God it becomes God-father. God-father means someone who is a guardian. There is no word like Allah-Abba or Allah-father. If you add the word mother to God, it becomes God-mother. There is nothing like Allah-Ammi, or Allah-mother in Islam. Allah is a unique word. If you prefix tin before the word God, it becomes tin-God i.e., fake God. Allah is a unique word, which does not conjure up any mental picture nor can it be played around with. Therefore the Muslims prefer using the Arabic word Allah for the Almighty. "[1]

Peace.

[1]Islamic Research Foundation.

[TruthSeeker]

people imagining their God as deity, while there is no likeness of God is a problem, but not mine.
Who and What God is, is still mentioned in ones scriptures, I am sure.

You still did not get my point. When you are praying five times a day, what is it that you hold in your mind? It is said that one should generate the feeling of love when one thinks of God, so it requires such a "loving" object to be held in the mind field?

I am guessing muslims think of 'nothing' while praying in fear of getting punished by their diety?

This holding of "nothing" in the mind referred to as nirvitarka and nirvicara are quite advanced topics, but I see little relevance of it with the Islamic means of worship. It looks as if bits and pieces of Hindu Dharma ( like Nirguna Brahman and worshipping "void") were blended with bits and pieces of Judaism and Christianity.

And there is no likeness of him. He is not his creation. So one can’t.

God’s sight is everywhere.
“No vision can grasp him. But his grasp is over all vision: he is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things”.

I believe your scriptures mention that God created man out of clay? How was clay created then? What is the fundamental building block of the universe and creation, if God alone existed in the beginning, as one without the second. To be more precise, atoms are the fundamental building blocks of the visible universe. The atoms consists of sub atomic particles, and so on. What is the ultimate basis of the universe(note that this includes heaven too) ? If God is not present in creation, then what was it created from?


Not answered rest of yours, as they are mere repetitions, and we have no logical grounds to examine them.

[sarabhanga]

The androgynous ardhanArIshvara has no particular gender ~ being shiva (masc.) and shakti (fem.) in perfect yoga.

iDA or iLA is only umA (i.e. shakti), and iDa or iLa is only agni or soma (i.e. shiva).

iDA (fem.) + iDa (masc.) = iDeDa (neut.) => iDDa.

The singular nominative of iDDa is iDDaH and the plural vocative is iDDAH.

Or, in Sanskrit:
इडा + इड = इडेड => इड्ड => इड्डः
iḍā + iḍa = iḍeḍa => iḍḍa => iḍḍaḥ

and
इळा + इळ = इळेळ => इळ => इळः
iḻā + iḻa = iḻeḻa => iḻa => iḻaḥ

and
इला + इल = इलेल => इल्ल => इल्लः
ilā + ila = ilela => illa => illaḥ

and
इल्लः <=> अल्लः
illaḥ <=> allaḥ

[sarabhanga]

The original devotees of Ilā and Ila (i.e. Illāḥ ~ and later, Allāḥ) were the Ailās or Aiḍās. And the Ailās are descended from Purūravas, the son of Budha and Iḻā, and the father of Āyus.

Purūravas means “loudly or much crying”, and he instituted the three sacrificial fires. He dwells in the heart of the universe, and He is known as the Vishvadeva.

Although the demon Pururāvan also invokes “much howling”, and his zealous followers are always ailabakāra (“making a noise or roaring” ~ which is said of Rudra’s dogs).

[TruthSeeker]

इल्लः <=> अल्लः
illaḥ <=> allaḥ

LA ILAHA ILLALLAH