Namaste

Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
Wow...

An excellant response but ............

Quote:
Originally Posted by devotee
How many Vaishnavas (historical not the figures in Puranas) have really seen Lord Vishnu, met him in person & Lord Vishnu told them that Shiva and all other gods are inferior to Him ? None ?? So, what is the Pratyaksha Pramana ?

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OM

Lord Vishnu once kindly showed a jiva how Shiva is non-different from Him, yet a different form (obviously).

Krshna Himself, who came and conquered the heart, left one jiva in sort of an ongoing lucid dream day-night, sometimes giving intuitions, walked each step with her, till she realized He was her AtmA.

In the beginning of the jiva's charmed ecstatic albeit ignorant state, a few days after the adventure began, she found 'herself' asking spontaneously (eyes closed in meditation) "Who are You ?"

In no time, a beautiful serene form, tapascharya pose , hair tied in a bun, dangling long earrings ... Gautam Buddha ?
Then the form gradually turned purplish. It was Shiva !
She opened her eyes. How can Krshna, Dwarakadheesh, Vishnu be Shiva ??
This was totally news to her. She knew nothing much from the puranas, just the Gita . Had no concepts of either Dvaita or Advaita,

That auspicious day happened to be Raam Navami.

For a week it was Shiva. Jiva was convinced her Lord Krshna/Vishnu and Shiva are the same, till one day both were in front of her. This time, her Lord was not 2 handed Shyamsundar, but 4 handed Vishnu , Om Namo Narayanaya , smiling peacefully, Lord Shiva gently laughing at the confused expression on her face .....

Krshna took the jiva up the Himalayas the night before Mahashivratri, yet the silly one did not realize (didn't know!) it was Shivratri till about 9 pm. Rooted to the spot, watched on TV , Shivabhishek in temples tall and small.
(msg ? Better remember next time!)

Krshna was always there being Paramatma. Shiva visited occasionally. Or the jiva went to Kailash to pay respects occasionally.
One afternoon jiva saw : Shiva sent His Naag , serpent thru' her front door, after a major storm in the neighbourhood. The same front door thru' which Krshna had walked in one day....


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I think the Vaishnav stance is , about Vishnu Tattva, form, and qualities He presides on, rather than attributed to Him or Shiva. They focus their devotion on Vishnu Tattva and form alone.
Shiva tattva, Shiva form take you a different route, and that is not a Vaishnav route , that is all there is to it.
This subtlety is well understood by advanced Vaishnavas and Shaivas.

Om Namah ShivAya
Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya