Originally Posted by
Yogkriya
Namaste Rasa!
The concept of Sat-Chit-Anand is essentially Advait. Then the word "vigraha" has been added that is being referred to as the "body" that contains it.
I'd like to hear more about the "body" here. Body is usually referred to a solid 'material' physical structure. In the 'Hare Krsna' philosophy Krsna has a "spiritual body". The term "spiritual body" in itself a bit technically confusing, since if there is a body then its material. Spiritual comes from the root word SPIRIT. As per the Yogic doctrines there are seven different "bodies" inside the grosser physical body that surround the soul. These are also referred to as the "bodies".
SatChitAnand is absolute state of Bliss that is experienced in Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Yes beyond any doubt Lord Shiva is this Sat Chit Anand and is Par Brahm. As Yoga is more experiential and not a topic of discussion, the Yogis follow less of an argument, discussion path as in Vedantists where quote unquote at times seems more important than experience of the divine communion.
Shiva says he is origin of the universe, parbrahma (origin of Brahm). So says Lord Brahma, Rama, Krishna, Upamanyu and other sages.
The Shiv Gita is Shiv-Ram samvad.
After Lord Rama seeks Pashupat and Virja deeksha from the great shaiv sage Agastya, he takes up sadhna of Lord Shiva. When Shiva appears, Ramachandra expresses his state of mind and Shiva preaches. Here Shiva also shows him his universal form in which he also shows the ten avataras of Vishnu including the Krishna avatara (that was to be) and his killing of Kansa). This samvad is called Shiva Gita and is a part of the Padma Purana.
But of course you will not find it in the concentrated copy of Padma Purana published by the BBT and I'll be surprised if any of the Vaishnava sects publish any version of Padma Purana without omitting it from it.
Just like the BBT or any other Gaudiya publishers will never publish the part of Anushasan Parva from Mahabharata where Lord Krsna explains the position of Lord Shiva to Yudhishthira.
What I quotes earlier was from the scriptures.
Some more quotes:
Eka eva rudra na dvitīyāya tasthur ( Yajurveda 1:8:6 d)
ie., Rudra is truly one for the knowers of Brahman do not admit the existence of a second.
Shiva Adhikhyam
Essential Characteristics of supreme lord :
1) He should be source of all, protecter of all and destroyer as well.
2) He should ever possess the strength of godhead.
3) He should be the father of the universe
4) He should be the lord of all beings.
5) He should be blissful and undecaying.
6) He should pervade all things and all beings both in heavens and in earth ,through his lordship
7) None should overcome him.
8) He should be the 'mightest' of the mighty. ( not just simply powerful )
9) He should be the sovereign of entire universe.
10)He should have multiple forms. ( ie., forms of god)
11) He should be the heart of all gods(ie., all gods are just part and parcle of him only )
12 ) He should alone yieldth to no second.
13) He should be able to give liberation (moksha) from death cycle and grant immortality.
Now Let us analyze,as per vedas, whether lord Rudra Possess such qualities.
Rudra is the supreme manifested form of absolute Brahman/parama purusha ( Sivam ). Rudra himself manifests as different Gods like Soma,Agni,Vayu.Indra,Prajapati,Visnu,Maruts,Yama etc. All these gods are different aspects of Lord Rudra.
"Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the UNIVERSE'S FATHER. HIM GREAT AND LOFTY, BLISSFUL, imperishable(ACHYUTAM), LET US CALL SPECIALLY AS THE SAGE IMPELS US". ( Rigveda 6:49:10 )
"To Rudra bring these songs, whose bow is firm and strong, the SELF-DEPENDENT GOD with swiftly-flying shafts, The Wise, the Conqueror whom none may overcome, armed with sharp-pointed weapons: may he hear our call. " ( Rigveda 7 :46: 1 )
"He(Rudra) through his lordship pervades in all things and beings on the earth, on heavenly beings through his high imperial power." ( Rig veda 7:46:2 )
We Worship Tryambaka(shiva), Who spreads Fragrance and Increases nourishment, May He LIBERATE (moksha) us, like the cucumber from its stem, from Mortal life, and give us Immorality.( Rig veda 7 :59 :12 )
LORD OF ALL BEINGS ART THOU IN GLORY, Rudra, armed with the thunder, MIGHTIEST OF THE MIGHTY. Transport us over trouble to well-being repel thou from us all assaults of mischief. ( Rig veda 2:33:3 )
"With firm limbs, MULTIFORM, the strong, the tawny adorns himself with bright gold decorations: THE STRENGTH OF GODHEAD NEVER DEPARTS FROM RUDRA, HIM WHO IS SOVEREIGN OF THE UNIVERSE, THE MIGHTY. "( RigVeda 2:33:9 )
Homage to him who haunteth the mountains, and to him who is in form of Çipivista.(visnu) ( Yajurveda iv. 5.5 f )
Homage to you(rudra) who is sparkling hearts of the gods ( Yajurveda iv. 5. 9 p )
The Rudra in the fire, in the waters, in the plants, the Rudra that hath entered all beings, to that Rudra be homage ( Yajurveda v. 5. 9. i )
Soma ( sa + uma ) ie., Along with Uma. :
This form of rudra is benificient or sattwa in nature. The form of soma is 'divine knowledge.' which satisfies the spiritual quest of all. hence it is identified with "Rasa or liquid". obviously, Gods like indra,visnu etc have more thirst for soma. infact, they are born out of soma only.Soma (Sa-Uma) is the father of heaven, earth, Vishnu, and Indra. Soma is the seed prolific for birth of Adityas and Vishnu. He is the highest heaven where Vak resides.
"Father of sacred chants, Soma flows onwards, the Father of the Earth, Father of the Celestial region: Father of Agni, the creator of Surya, the Father who gave birth to Indra and Vishnu" (Rig Veda.IX.96.5)
NOTE : SOMA ( an aspect of Rudra ) IS THE FATHER WHO BEGET INDRA, AGNI,SURYA AND VISHNU
" [O Soma!]Father and generator of the gods, the skillful, the Pillar of the Heavens (ie. Linga), and supporter of Earth. Rishi and Illuminated Sage, greatest of people, apart and wise, Ushana (Shukracharya) in knowledge" (Rig Veda .IX.87.2-3)
NOTE: SOMA IS THE FATHER OF GODS AND SUPPORTER OF HEAVENS AND EARTH.
Rig veda 1 : HYMN CLXIV. Visvedevas.
34 I ask thee of the earth's extremest limit, where is the centre of the world, I ask thee. I ask thee of the Stallion's seed prolific, I ask of highest heaven where Speech abideth.
35 This altar is the earth's extremest limit; this sacrifice of ours is the world's centre.THE STALLION'S SEED PROLIFIC IS THE SOMA; THIS BRAHMAN HIGHEST HEAVEN WHERE
SPEECH ABIDETH.
The opinions of ISKCON and Gaudiya Sampradaya on Lord Shiva is faulty and offensive. Some of the prominent points of Iskcon/Gaudiya preaching on Lord Shiva:
1) ISK'CON' believes that siva is a demi god
2) Siva is not supreme as Krishna
3) Siva worshippers can get only 'material welfare'. They can't get spiritual benefit.
moksha(liberation) cannot be given by siva.
4) Siva does not have all 64 abilities. He has 55 qualities. Only supreme godhead Krishna shall have all 64 qualities.
5) Demons worship 'Siva'. He gets into angry mood quickly. He has 'tamo guna'.
6) Siva was born from Brahma's forehead.
7) ISKCON supports their claim by quoting from a scripture titled 'Brahma samhitha'
8) Shiva is top most worshipper but he is not top most worshipful.
9) Siva could not save 'Ravana' from the death.
10) Shiva is dependent and cannot grant anything spiritual without
Krishna's consent.
11) Shiva is chanting Hare Krishna mantra on beads.
etc..
Rudra is self dependent and independent. This was falsely and un-Vedicly preached as offensive by Srila Prabhupad. Unvedicly because the vedas do not claim so:
"To Rudra bring these songs, whose bow is firm and strong, the self-dependent God with swiftly-flying shafts,The Wise, the Conqueror whom none may overcome, armed with sharp-pointed weapons: may he hear our call." (Rigveda 7:46:1 )
Moreover Shiva, Rudra is hailed as the father of the universe in Rigveda:
"Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the Universe's Father.Him great and lofty, blissful, undecaying let us call specially as the Sage impels us. " (Rigveda 6:49:10)
Yajurveda:
There is Shri Rudram in Taittariya samhita of Yajurveda.(4.5 ). It is otherwise called shatharudriyam. let us see what it says about Rudra.
"Namasteastu bhavagan vishvesvaraya mahadevaya
triyambakaya triupurantakaya trikalagni kalaya kalaagni Rudraya nilakanthaya mrutyunjayaya sarveshvaraya sadashivaya
Sriman mahadevaya Namah ( First Anuvaka)
meaning:
"Let my salutations be to that great God who is the Lord of the universes; the great God who has three eyes and who destroys Tripura, the three Asura cities. To that God who is the Dandhya time when the three sacred fires are lit; who is Rudra the fire that consumes the universe; whose throat is blue; who has conquered death; the Lord of all; the ever auspicious one; salutations to that glorious and great God."
Let us see another verse from it
Namo Bhavaya Cha Rudraya Cha Namah Sharvaya Cha Pashupataye Cha
Namo Nilagrivaya Cha Shitikanthaya Cha
Namah Kapardine Cha Vyuptakeshaya Cha
Namah Sahasrakshaya Cha Shatadhanvane Cha
Namo Girishaya Cha Shipivishhtaya Cha (Fifth Anuvaka)
meaning:
Salutations to Him who is the source of all things and to Him who is the destroyer of all ills. Salutations to the destroyer and to the protector of all beings in bondage. Salutations to Him whose throat is black and whose throat is also white. Salutations to Him of the matted locks, and to Him who is clean-shaven. Salutations to Him who has a Thousand eyes and a hundred bows. Salutations to Him who dwells on the mount and who is in the form of Shipivista (Vishnu).
Vedik Rishis have gone even further . They are calling Rudra as 'Bhavaya' ie., 'source' . How can he be called source of everything ? Only creator could be the source of everything . They called him 'pasupati' .All living beings are called 'pashu', because it is a metaphor and 'Pati' means one who 'rules' or 'protects'. oh !! here he is called protector and Destroyer as well. All three activities ie., Creation, protection and Destruction by Rudra himself ??? How could he do all the three things ? They also called Rudra as 'shipivista'(vishnu) !! it is epithet of 'Vishnu' in the Yajurveda .
SVETASVATARA UPAN ISHAD of Yajurveda ( Oldest and one among the 11 primary upanishads )
"Prakriti is perishable. Hara, the Lord, is immortal and imperishable. The non—dual Supreme Self rules both prakriti and the individual soul. Through constant meditation on Him, by union with Him, by the knowledge of identity with Him, one attains, in the end, cessation of the illusion of phenomena. "( 1:10 svetasvathara upanishad )
Let us see what upanishads say about RUDRA
SVETASVATARA UPAN ISHAD of Yajurveda ( Oldest and one among the 11 primary upanishads )
"Prakriti is perishable. Hara, the Lord, is immortal and imperishable. The non—dual Supreme Self rules both prakriti and the individual soul. Through constant meditation on Him, by union with Him, by the knowledge of identity with Him, one attains, in the end, cessation of the illusion of phenomena. "( 1:10 svetasvathara upanishad )
"Rudra is truly one; for the knowers of Brahman do not admit the existence of a second, He alone rules all the worlds by His powers. He dwells as the inner Self of every living being. After having created all the worlds, He, their Protector, takes them back into Himself at the end of time." ( 3:02 svetasvatara upsanishad )
"He, the omniscient Rudra, the creator of the gods and the bestower of their powers, the support of the universe, He who, in the beginning, gave birth to Hiranyagarbha—may He endow us with clear intellect!" (3:04 svetasvatara upanishad )
"The Supreme Lord is higher than Virat, beyond Hiranyagarbha. He is vast and is hidden in the bodies of all living beings. By knowing Him who alone pervades the universe, men become immortal "( 3:07 svetasvathara upanishad )
"Seeking Liberation, I take refuge in the Lord, the revealer of Self—Knowledge, who in the beginning created Brahma and delivered the Vedas to Him". (6:18 svetasvatara upanishad )
oh !! what is this ? why Vedik rishis calling Rudra as supreme being ? O srila Prabhupada.. why don't you send your god brothers to vedik rishis?
(Note: Svetasvatara upanishad is not Shaiva upanishad. Shaiva agamas were not even there at the time. Moreover, if this Upanishad is indeed a Shaiva Upanishad, other sects of Hinduism such as Vaishnavas wouldn't have quoted its verses/mantras as authority in their respective treatises.There are many words which voice submission to God or Brahman (words such as Sharanam, Prapadye, etc.). This concept of devotion later found profound expression in the Bhakti Sutras and other treatises on Bhakti.)
Superiority of shiva from Bhagavata purana:
" O Lord siva , Those devotees who have fully dedicated their lives unto your lotus feet will certainly recognise as Paramātmā in each and every being, and as such they do not differentiate between one living being and another. Such persons treat all living entities equally. They never become overwhelmed by anger like animals, who can see nothing without differentiation ". ( Srimad bhagavatam 4:6:46 )
"O most auspicious lord, you have ordained the heavenly planets, the spiritual Vaikunthha planets and the impersonal Brahman sphere as the respective destinations of the performers of auspicious activities. Similarly, for others, who are miscreants, you have destined different kinds of hells which are horrible and ghastly. Yet sometimes it is found that their destinations are just the opposite. It is very difficult to ascertain the cause of this" ( Srimad bhagavatam 4:6:45)
"O Bhagavan shiva , you create this cosmic manifestation, maintain it, and annihilate it by expansion of your personality, exactly as a spider creates, maintains and winds up its web." ( Srimad Bhagavatam 4:6:43 )
"Lord Brahmā said: O supreme lord Śiva, I know that you are the controller of the entire material manifestation, the combination father and mother of the cosmic manifestation, and the Supreme Brahman beyond the cosmic manifestation as well. I know you in that way" ( srimad Bhagavatam 4:6:42 )
"O King, when that uncontrollable poison was forcefully spreading up and down in all directions, all the demigods, along with the Lord Hari Himself, approached Supreme Lord Śiva [Sadāśiva]. Feeling unsheltered and very much afraid, they sought shelter of him. ( Srimad Bhagavatam 8:7:19)
"The demigods Headed by Lord Sri Hari observed Supreme Lord S'iva sitting on the summit of Kailâsa Hill with his wife, Bhavânî, for the auspicious development of the three worlds. He was being worshiped by great saintly persons desiring liberation. The demigods offered him their obeisances and prayers with great respect" ( Srimad Bhagavatam 8:7:20 )
"The prajâpatis said: O God of all gods (Deva deva), Mahâdeva, Supereme soul of all living entities and cause of their happiness and prosperity, we have come to the shelter of your lotus feet. Now please save us from this fiery poison, which is spreading all over the three worlds." ( Srimad Bhagavatam 8:7:21)
"O lord, you alone are the cause of bondage and liberation of the entire worlds( sarva jagat) because you are alone its ruler (tvam ekaḥ sarva-jagataīśvaro ). Those who are advanced in spiritual consciousness surrender unto you, and therefore you are the cause of mitigating their distresses, and you are alone the cause of their liberation. We therefore worship Your Lordship." (Srimad Bhagavatam 8:7:22)
"O lord Shiva, you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and you assume the names Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Maheśvara when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation." ( Srimad Bhagavatam 8:7:23 )
" O Lord Shiva, You are the cause of all causes, the self-effulgent, inconceivable, and you are alone that Secret Para Brahman (tvaḿ brahma paramaḿ guhyaḿ ). You manifest various potencies in this cosmic manifestation. You are the Supreme soul and supreme personality of godhead (tvam ātmā jagad-īśvaraḥ) " ( Srimad Bhagavatam 8:7:24 )
tvaḿ śabda-yonir jagad-ādir ātmā prāṇendriya-dravya-guṇaḥ svabhāvaḥkālaḥ kratuḥ satyam ṛtaḿ ca dharmastvayy akṣaraḿ yat tri-vṛd-āmananti ( SB 8:7:25 )
"O lord Shiva, you are the original source of Vedic literature. You are the original cause of entire creation, the life force, the senses, the five elements, the three modes and the mahat-tattva. You are eternal time, determination and the two religious systems called truth [satya] and truthfulness [ṛta]. You are the shelter of the syllable oḿ, which consists of three letters a-u-m." ( Srimad Bhagavatam 8:7:25 )
"O Shiva, father of all planets, learned scholars know that fire is your mouth, the surface of the globe is your lotus feet, eternal time is your movement, all the directions are your ears, and Varuṇa, master of the waters, is your tongue." ( SB 8:7:26 )
O lord, the sky is your navel, the air is your breathing, the sun is your eyes, and the water is your semen. You are the shelter of all kinds of living entities, high and low. The god of the moon is your mind, and the upper planetary system is your head ( SB 8:7:27)
"O lord shiva, you are the three Vedas personified. The seven seas are your abdomen, and the mountains are your bones. All drugs, creepers and vegetables are the hairs on your body, the Vedic mantras like Gâyatrî are the seven layers of your body, and the Vedic religious system is the core of your heart" ( SB 8:7:28)
"O lord, the Vedas are represented by your five faces, from which the thirty-eight most celebrated Vedic mantras have been generated. Your Lordship, being celebrated as Lord Śiva, is self-illuminated. You are directly situated as the supreme truth, known as Paramātmā." (SB 8:7:29)
O lord, your shadow is seen in irreligion, which brings about varieties of irreligious creations. The three modes of nature - goodness, passion and ignorance - are your three eyes. All the Vedic literatures, which are full of verses, are emanations from you because their compilers wrote the various scriptures after receiving your glance ( SB 8:7:30 )
O Lord Girîsha, since the You are Brahman which is transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It is not understandable even to Lord Brahmâ, Lord Vishnu or the King of heaven, Mahendra ( SB 8:7:31)
"When annihilation is performed by the flames and sparks emanating from your eyes, the entire creation is burned to ashes. . What then is to be said of your destroying the Dakṣa-yajña, Tripurāsura and the kālagara ? Such activities cannot be subject matters for prayers offered to you. because, We all do not know how this happens " ( SB 8:7:32)
"Exalted, self-satisfied persons who preach to the entire world think of your lotus feet constantly within their hearts. However, when persons who do not know your austerity see you moving with Umā, they misunderstand you to be lusty, or when they see you wandering in the crematorium they mistakenly think that you are ferocious and envious. Certainly they are shameless. They cannot understand your Supreme Trascedental Reality". ( SB 8:7:33)
"Even personalities like Lord Brahmâ and other demigods cannot understand your position, for you are beyond the Truth (sat) and unTruth(Asat) (sad-asatoḥ parataḥ). Since no one can understand your actual nature (nāñjaḥ svarūpa-gamane). how can one offer you prayers? It is impossible. As far as we are concerned, we are creatures of Lord Brahmâ's creation. Under the circumstances, therefore, we cannot offer you adequate prayers, but as far as our ability allows we have expressed our feelings." (SB 8:7:34)
"O Supreme Ordinator ( maheśvara) , your actual identity is impossible for us to understand.(etat paraḿ prapaśyāmo na ) As far as we can see, your presence brings flourishing happiness to everyone. But your transcedental nature is unknown (avyakta-karmaṇaḥ) ( SB 8:7:35)
in spite of Bhagavatam repeatedly glorifying lord shiva as 'parabrahman' , the Wicked vaishnava Acharyas who are governed by 'EGO' refuses to accept Shiva as supreme lord. They resort to cheap tactics and shout ........ "it won't apply to shiva" , " it refers to antaryami vishnu who is in shiva"... etc..etc. But such evil remarks can never hide the truth.
Those Wicked Vaishnava fools who spit venom should keep their mouth shut.
They should follow what Naradha said in Narada pancharatra.
Narad Pancharatra:
"Shivo Harirhariha Shakshatchiva Eva Nirupitaha
Shivadveshi Haridrohi Vishnum Nityam Bhajanapi"
Meaning:
‘Shiva is Hari and Hari is none other than Shiva. An enemy of Shiva is an enemy of Hari, even though he may daily worship Vishnu.’
Shri Brahma -
" O siva , I know that You are the Supreme controller(Parameswara), You are both the father and the mother of the entire cosmic manifestation and as the one ever auspicious and supreme brahman who is beyond cosmic manifestation" (SB 4:6:42 )
Entire vedas ,Vedik rishis asked only Lord shiva for liberation.
tryambakaṃ yajāmahe sugandhiṃ puṣṭi-vardhanam
urvārukam iva bandhanān mṛtyor mukṣīya māmṛtāt
(Refer : Rigveda 7:59:12 or Yajurveda (Taittariya Samhita 1.8.6.i; VS 3.60)
MEANING :
We worship and adore you, O three-eyed one, You are sweet gladness, the fragrance of life, who nourishes us, restores our health, and causes us to thrive. As, in due time, the stem of the cucumber weakens, and the gourd if freed from the vine, so LIBERATE us from attachment and death, and do not withhold immortality
Asking for MOKSHA or to free them from attachment is surely not something which comes under material desire.
Lord Shiva is known as MAHESHWARA and MAHADEV. See what Lord Krishna says to Arjuna about Lord SHIVA in Bhagvad Gita:
upadrastanumanta ca
bharta bhokta mahesvarah
paramatmeti capy ukto
dehe 'smin purusah parah (Bhagavad Gita 13:23)
"Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer who is MAHESHWARA, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as Paramatma,the Supreme soul of universe".
There is no need for more quotes I suppose. And yes indeed Shiva is Sat-Chit-Anand. Satyam-Shivam-Sundaram.
Thank you.
Namah Shivaya!
Jai Mahakaal!
Yogkriya.
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