Banning Muslim Garb

[Tirisilex]

France is putting out a law so that Islamic women can no longer wear the full robe and veil which covers them.. Only exposing their eyes.. Their reasoning is that it represents women inequality. Now I know without a doubt that there are woman muslims out there who really don't mind dressing this way. I personally believe that people should be allowed to dress in anyway they wish..
I mean do you see any laws being passed for the opposite? What do I mean by the opposite? I mean String tiny Bikinis.. We allow woman at beaches to be in public dressed like this..

[Ekanta]

I have thought of this...
Banning the wearing of "full robe and veil which covers them.. Only exposing their eyes" [Niqab/Burqa] I would think is ok. It has no good purpose. Instead what it does is so you cant see who it is, you cant see the expression on the face.

Do you recognize this person:


But I would not agree that it is ok to ban a normal veil [Hijab] as its not my business to look at a persons hair. We can still see who it is and better understand that person.

On the other hand I can agree on the "String tiny Bikinis". Its the other side of the coin. Its too much.

All in all, there shouldnt be an absolute freedom in clothing as it affects other people.

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste: These issues are certainly made tougher in today's climate of terrorism. I believe the French government's reasoning is male terrorists could use clothing as a disguise to roam about the airports and the like. I think it amounts to racial profiling, yet I would be more prone to agree, if there was actually several incidents of this type of cloak and dagger terrorism actually happening.

It reminds me of the Sikh turban issue in Canada. A veterans support group called the Royal Canadian Legion banned hats out of respect for the British pomp. Turbans were interpreted as hats. Court battles ensued. Again, it was veiled racism.

Social norms of countries vary widely. Germany has many nude beaches whilst it would be basically totally unheard of in many countries including the Islamic world and the Hindi world. I just hope it doesn't increase an already volatile relationship between cultures.

Aum Namasivaya

[sanjaya]

France and other European governments are cracking down on Islamic ways of life for several reasons. Some of them are legitimate. On the one hand, we have to face the fact that Islam is a contentious religion which seeks to impose itself on the rest of the culture (e.g. they demand sharia law in Muslim neighborhoods). Most other religious people are capable of coexisting, but Muslims often seek to create Islamic states out of secular republics. Banning hijabs, minarets (spires on mosques) and other such things is probably based on the belief that preventing public expressions of Islam will retard its encroachment upon Western culture.

But there are also more dubious reasons at work here. As EM pointed out, there's a layer of racism here. Muslims represent racial heterogeny, which is undesirable to many Western peoples. In America, racism is starting to go away. But Europe never had the racial clashes that America did, and maybe this is why there is still an underlying racism there. Let's not be too quick to cheer as Europe sticks it to Islam.

What if, all of a sudden, Western countries decided to stop allowing the construction of Hindu temples and restricted our religious practice to our private homes, citing reasons of cultural encroachment. Would this be acceptable to us? It's important for us to protect the rights of the most unpopular people, so that things like this don't happen to us. Jewish people have learned this lesson, and maybe that's why you'll find the ACLU protecting the rights of distasteful groups like the KKK. I think that mainstream Islam is a terrible religion, but I don't think it's in our best interest to support Muslim oppression.

[Explorer]

France is putting out a law so that Islamic women can no longer wear the full robe and veil which covers them

About time, if I can't wear a full mask in banks and airports, them being allowed to do so is a discrimination against all of us. They should be allowed to wear masks in public places when I too can enter a bank dressed like this



I'm sure nobody will be able to ban anything beyond the face mask, because it's highly debatable what constitutes a Muslim head veil, as opposed to a regular one.

The security issues come from the mask, not from covering the hair.

[NetiNeti]

My bank went nuts when I walked in without taking my motorcycle helmet off yet. The security guard stopped me and made me take it off. These women should dress how they want but also understand that limitations come with that expression, such as going into places where they must be seen. Freedom comes with responsibility.

[wcrow]

I think that anything that breaks security regulations for banks and other public places should be banned full stop, no matter if it is for religious or other reasons. So, that includes the muslim veil and face coverings when entering banks.
However, if this is about stopping oppression or extremism, ultimately it will achieve nothing. If muslim women aren't allowed to wear the headscarf outside, then thier abusive husbands will just keep them inside. The very few women in western countires that wear the veil/men who make thier wives wear the veil, for whatever reason, will not be stopped with a ban. It goes much deeper than can be solved by a ban.

[MahaHrada]

I think that anything that breaks security regulations for banks and other public places should be banned full stop, no matter if it is for religious or other reasons. So, that includes the muslim veil and face coverings when entering banks.
However, if this is about stopping oppression or extremism, ultimately it will achieve nothing. If muslim women aren't allowed to wear the headscarf outside, then thier abusive husbands will just keep them inside. The very few women in western countires that wear the veil/men who make thier wives wear the veil, for whatever reason, will not be stopped with a ban. It goes much deeper than can be solved by a ban.

If one allows woman to wear a veil there will be a cleft in society, between good and bad woman from the viewpoint of the average muslim male. Woman without veil in the public, in regions or parts of a city with high percentage of muslim population, will be harrassed and intimidated some muslim men even belive that it is allowed to rape a woman that wears no veil and has no male company in public. Thats why if the burqa or veil is allowed non muslim woman will also be forced to wear a veil to avoid violence, harassment, groping, intimidation and other problems, including rape. Thats why a ban is a must.

[wcrow]

If one allows woman to wear a veil there will be a cleft in society, between good and bad woman from the viewpoint of the average muslim male. Woman without veil in the public, in regions or parts of a city with high percentage of muslim population, will be harrassed and intimidated some muslim men even belive that it is allowed to rape a woman that wears no veil and has no male company in public. Thats why if the burqa or veil is allowed non muslim woman will also be forced to wear a veil to avoid violence, harassment, groping, intimidation and other problems, including rape. Thats why a ban is a must.

Perhaps this is true, and I agree that something must be done. I just don't think a ban will help. What are these men going to do - give up because it is not allowed? Rape ect is already banned by the government.
No, they will carry on, oppress thier wives further, and they will also hate the state for banning something they feel is neccessary to being a muslim.
The problem is with those who teach oppressive islam - not the veil itself.
If the women and men felt their was no need for a veil, then there wouldn't be a problem. And since it does not say this in the quran, or other islamic religious texts (the veil is fairly recent, adopted after the expansion of islam), it must be coming from somewhere else.

[MahaHrada]

Perhaps this is true, and I agree that something must be done. I just don't think a ban will help. What are these men going to do - give up because it is not allowed? Rape ect is already banned by the government.
No, they will carry on, oppress thier wives further, and they will also hate the state for banning something they feel is neccessary to being a muslim.
The problem is with those who teach oppressive islam - not the veil itself.
If the women and men felt their was no need for a veil, then there wouldn't be a problem. And since it does not say this in the quran, or other islamic religious texts (the veil is fairly recent, adopted after the expansion of islam), it must be coming from somewhere else.

Banning the Veil will send a definite signal to these men that they are living in a country were woman without a veil are normal and respected and not whores that can be legally raped.

It is not only about muslim woman, it is also about the rest of society. We have to restrict the influence of barbaric customs, If that is not done the society will change.
Muslim woman will be mistreated whether the veil is allowed or banned, allowing the veil will not change anything substantiall immediately for them. Probably in a few generations, but if nothing is done these customs will eventually grow stroonger and evcen spread to non muslim as well, due to harassment.
Muslims will always hate kuffars whether they allow them to wear the veil or not so you can be always shure of muslim hate, it is part of their culture and religion, nothing you do, except converting to islam will change that.

Rape and harrasiing woman is still forbiden by the law but for how long? There has already been a ruling in a german court about a muslim man who beat his wife severly, were he was not sentenced because he was a muslim. The reason the (female!) judge gave for this was that beating his wife is naturally for a muslim and part of his culture and that the woman when marrying the man should have known that,thereforee it is her own fault, case closed.

In Britain there is already a part implementation of sharia law going on, muslims can go to special sharia courts to settle their legal matters. It is only a matter of time and they will be given extra legal status regarding cases of honour killings and harassment and rape of (unveiled) woman, like in muslim country. There is a lot of pressure from wealthy and inflential muslim lobby groups and muslims are already a huge vote bloc, this poses a danger for human rights and liberty in democracies.