The life of the devotee of Shiva

**Onkara** · 05 February 2010, 02:38 PM

A powerful picture or image which remains in my mind is that of the Shivite.

When I see pictures of devotees, such as these of Shiva, I wonder about their goals, if any, and the changes which might happen to them whilst in pursuit of their goals. Do they progress through some form of monk to priest within the sect or is there something else in their future? How to understand this please?

I hope my wording does not communicate a completely wrong understanding. If it does then I hope their is a way to correct my understanding?

**Eastern Mind** · 05 February 2010, 04:25 PM

Vannakkam Snip:

Not sure if these chaps are Saivas or not. The forehead marks seem to have both Vaishnava and Saiva. Someone from India could enlighten us. (Note the word 'enlighten', meaning 'to shed knowledge upon' not in the classical sense ... another reason why the word is so misused) Sorry about the digression. Certainly they are sadhus. (Roughly translated as wandering ascetics) One renounces the world to attain enlightenment, supposedly. I'm sure that this is a 'maybe' situation. I have my own doubts. There may be other reasons. I've heard several stories. Here are a few ideas for your consideration. (Do I sound like Yajvanji with this?)

1) I've heard there is a lot of cannabis use among sadhus. For me personally this raises doubts.
2) Also heard there may be some sort of ritualistic castration involved with some.
3) Renunciation is in the head... , in my opinion.
4) If one renounces the world,then why congregate in groups? (Many don't)
5) There seems to be an attachment to appearance, which is a contradiction within renunciation for me.

So go figure.

Certainly, if nothing else, they are interesting.

Aum Namasivaya

**devotee** · 05 February 2010, 08:42 PM

Namaste Snip and EM,

We can only guess when we have only pictures in hand.

These are Sadhus, most probably Shaivites as they have applied "Bhasma" (ash) on their bodies. They are basically wandering monks who have left their homes & all possessions in their spiritual quest under the guidance of their Guru.

These people move in groups with their Guru. The word of Guru is final for them. They don't own anything. They live on charity.

OM

**Onkara** · 06 February 2010, 03:49 AM

Thank you Eastern Mind and Devotee!
I find the whole culture fascinating, I assume others must do too

Have you personally seen or met people like this?

The picture is an example I found online and happens to be the same men who appeared in a travel documentary and were mentioned as Shivites. I wonder how one should approach people like this, what courtsey or respect one should take in general?

**Eastern Mind** · 06 February 2010, 07:36 AM

Vannakkam Snip: The wandering mendicant is all over, but in general more common in the north of India. Most would not know English, and in my very limited experience, vary quite a bit. Population estimates vary between 10 to 15 million, including quite a few westerners. Other peoples attitudes vary between 'disdain for a lazy beggar' to 'worship as a holy man'. But really, if you are keen to learn more, because of the interest you have expressed, there is a TON of information on line. Just search the word 'sadhu'. You might be reading for months.

Aum Namasivaya

**Onkara** · 06 February 2010, 08:00 AM

Thank you Eastern Mind.
I will take your lead and look further on line. I liked to read others experiences and thoughts too, it gives it more life and interest when coming from members of the forum.

**Ganeshprasad** · 06 February 2010, 09:06 AM

Pranam Snipji and all

I have met many on my travels, they come in all shape and size. I like to treat them with respect all being bit wary of them. It is impossible to tell the fake from true sadhu. A lot of them will beg for their guru, many times they would conjure up a magic trick and produce rudrask bead or two, I never get impressed by them. While you are on pilgrimage one would like to donate food or money it is the ones that are not satisfied by your donation, I like to stay away from. Like the one that approached me while I was in haridwar two years ago, asked me if I could buy him some food, I said not a problem so I gave him enough to by a thali in Haridwar not satisfied by it I had to remind him that a sadhu has to be satisfied with what he gets and not be greedy, off course it did not go well.
My best experience was when I did my char dham yatra on the way down from Kedar I met this young Sadhu who asked me how long to go and as everyone else do for encouragement I said not far, then I got a 100 rs note and gave it to him I said it will help you have food on the way up. His expression I cant forget, he said to me his not had food for a while and was wondering how will he eat when gets on top. He praised the lord and blessed me and said one who has faith will never go hungry, Bhole sees to that.
Also while in Gangotri here two Moni(vow of silence) Sadhu looked after us, worried about us fed us and served us Prasad yet asked nothing in return.
I must say I do not like the one that smoke, may be I am too hard on them, I must try and see wider picture.

Lets see how many I encounter if I get the chance to go to Kumbh mela, I am working on it.

Jai Shree Krishna

**Onkara** · 06 February 2010, 10:39 AM

Lovely insight, thank you Ganeshprashad ji.

**yajvan** · 06 February 2010, 10:50 AM

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté

snip writes,

When I see pictures of devotees, such as these of Shiva, I wonder about their goals, if any, and the changes which might happen to them whilst in pursuit of their goals. Do they progress through some form of monk to priest within the sect or is there something else in their future? How to understand this please?

If I may let me add one point worthy of note that is tangential to this conversation...

Arjun asks kṛṣṇa (Bhāgavad gītā 2.54) What are the signs of a man whose intellect is steady, who is absorbed in the SELF ( the words used is samādhi-sthasya, fixed or established in evenness) keśava (kṛṣṇa)? How does he speak, how does sit, who does he walk?

This question IMHO is quite profound, and kṛṣṇa answers arjun (arjuna) in the next 18 verses. This is worthy of reading and studying. Never once does kṛṣṇa describe an outward feature e.g. sitting, standing, walking, markings, etc. He describes the inward experience of the individual and how s/he acts without longing, relinquished of nagging desires, free from the notion of 'I' and 'mine'.

Hence , for me, it is not how someone carries themselves, what markings that may be on one's forehead, what rosaries one may wear - these are all accessories to ones sādhana vs. one's indication of samādhi-sthasya.

praṇām