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Thread: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

  1. #71

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    On one of his visits to India, Fr. George met with the Bengali saint Ananda Mai Ma. She instructed him to remain in the Christian religion and continue with his Christian practices. This is not unusual advice from a Hindu guru. In spite of their enlightenment, most of them are grossly ignorant -----

    This kind of advice is insincere and irresponsible, ----

    Every popular religious teacher in India today espouses some form or other of Advaitic philosophy. ----

    Most modern Indian religious teachers do take Advaita Vedanta out of its original Vedic religious context, ------.”
    Is the atma of a person the core, true identity which comes before a guru? Or is the religious identity or the nationality the core? Or is there something besides the nationality and creed?

    22. Persons who, meditating on Me as non-separate, worship Me in all beings, to them thus ever jealously engaged, I carry what they lack and preserve what they already have. 22

    p. 211
    23. Even those devotees, who endued with Shraddhâ, worship other gods, they too worship Me alone, O son of Kunti, (but) by the wrong method. 23

    24. For I alone am the Enjoyer, and Lord of all Yajnas; but because they do not know Me in reality, they return, (to the mortal world). 24

    p. 212
    25. Votaries of the Devas go to the Devas; to the Pitris, go their votaries; to the Bhutas, go the Bhuta worshippers; My votaries too come unto Me. 25

    p. 213
    26. Whoever with devotion offers Me a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or water, that I accept—the devout gift of the pure-minded. 26

    27. Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever thou offerest in sacrifice, whatever thou givest away, whatever austerity thou practisest, O son of Kunti, do that as an offering unto Me.
    p. 214
    28. Thus shalt thou be freed from the bondages of actions, bearing good and evil results: with the heart steadfast in the Yoga of renunciation, and liberated, thou shalt come unto Me. 28

    29. I am the same to all beings: to Me there is none hateful or dear. But those who worship Me with devotion, are in Me, and I too am in them. 29
    Why would it not be wisdom to accept that people have religious faiths according to their temperament and karam and not require missionary conversion from one thing to another? If Srimad Bhagavatum says a Bhuta worshipper worships the Parabrahm but by wrong method, then Bhagavan is accepting every religious offering of ours, however mistaken, however tiny, and leading us closer to mukti.

    Seldom have I seen such viper-like mischievousness as in the most recent strategies of the Christian mission in India. It is a viper with two teeth. On the one side, there is the gentle penetration through social and educational services, now compounded with a rhetoric of "inculturation": glib talk of "dialogue", "sharing", "common ground", fraudulent donning of Hindu robes by Christian monks, all calculated to fool Hindus about the continuity of the Christian striving to destroy Hinduism and replace it with the cult of Jesus.

    There is no doubt. But I don't think western Christians have to convert either. I simply think conversion as a requirement is an abhorrent disrespect of the culture and validity of a person's own beliefs.

    Beliefs can be wrong. Certainly the human mind itself is very small. If you stand on the moon and look down at the Earth with a microscope, the human brain is smaller than a bacterium. Yet we try to comprehend the immensity. Of course we are wrong. We are limited. So beliefs are not the most important thing. We are not the brain. We are something more refined than this. Everyone of us is made of the same soul-stuff.

    Politically, nationalism is important. But spiritually, nationalism is something that fades away. Even the earth will fade away. None of these labels, or these languages we use to describe will last. From a spiritual point of view, demolishing a religious figure or faith of someone else is a bad thing. People cling to religion in times of distress or need. And we have no right to take that away from them. Let their guru guide them.

    On the other hand, criminal mischief should be exposed. But that is not the same thing as demolishing a person or a belief. For one thing, the tribals wouldn't be converting if the government of India would pay attention to the needs. So there has to be an outreach back to the people, to the poor, the under-educated, to meet the needs as a Hindu society. It's definitely the fault of evil-doers but also the fault of negligence behind these problems.

    You are one of the very few Hindu writers working today who has understood the truth about Christianity and the insidious influence it has had on our educated and governing classes. I particularly appreciate your criticism of Yogananda Paramahansa of California. For the last hundred years our mahatmas (including Mahaatma Gandhi) and god men have misled the people --------


    Swami Chidananda of Shivananda Aashram at Rishikesh is a prime example of this kind of Christianized Hindu sadhu who has gained a world following by undermining the very integrity of Hindu Dharma.
    I never heard anything bad about Paramahansa Yogananda or any of his group. He came to America, a predominantly Christian country and was a fine teacher. He spoke to people where they were at. What is the evil thing? Because he tried to point out the parallel teachings in Bible and Bhagavad-Gita? What about bhuta worshippers? A teacher should not come to them and bring message of peace and unity? Do you think immigrants to America would have an easier time if Hindu gurus and swamis did not first come here to broaden some degree of tolerance and understanding?

    You realize Paramahansa Yogananda was in America when the KKK was at it's peak. Imagine how different America would be today without all these people who came to teach the general "Christian" public a thing or two about the beauty of Dharmic faiths. I know a few people who are members of SRF, both Indian and White and they all all very sweet people. And not one of them in the years I've known them has ever been interested in converting others, proselytizing, or advancing Christian missionary agendas. I also know Radha Soamis and they are also very sincere. What is this guys problem? You should not make a friend into an enemy.

    Unlike Christian priests who study Hindu scriptures and doctrines in depth for years, they have never read the Bible or studied the imperialist Christian ideologies that have be formulated out of the Bible story. They are helpless, and they are made even more helpless by their own superficially understood and secularised doctrines of an abstract, impersonal, and all-pervasive Brahman godhead.
    You know, there's a lot more to the Bible than you think. There is a lot of suppression historically, and in the mainstream Christian Churches which explains all this. To avoid big blocks of text I will cont.

    (Cont.)

  2. #72

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Swami Devananda is correct when he laments about Hindus trying to interpret the Bible and Koran solely from a Hindu perspective, without understanding that the two religions and their scriptures were not conceived and written by Hindus. These two religions were conceived and built on exclusivism. One needs to stop analyzing these two religions and their books from the point of view of Hinduism, and instead see them in the light of the socio-political and cultural context underlying the creation of these two institutions (Christianity and Islam) and their purport.

    It is ironic that many Hindus today insist that they have understood or unlocked the ‘wholesome truth’ contained in the Bible (or Koran) when devout Christians (or Muslims),worldwide, including their spiritual leaders, and societies that have been practicing this religion from the time of its inception, have been unable to decipher the bible’s alleged ‘deeper’ meaning.

    All of these holy books speak to human cultures and human needs at varying states of time. Is there anything human which we can exclude from our consciousness? We don't all feel the same sorrows, joys, hopes?

    First of all, take the Bible. The Christians added the Jewish holy scriptures with the later apostolic writings and made one thing. Christianity really has nothing to do with Judaism. Judaism doesn't even believe in conversions. They have their own thing and that is their beautiful human right.

    Now, to us, 4,000 years later, reading the Old Testament of the Bible some things might sound colonial and barbaric. But for one thing, to the Jews, not all of these writings carry the same weight as the Torah, which is the first 5 books. And the Torah has to be understood from the original Hebrew language. The Hebrew language is written in a coded numerical symbolism called gematriya. Now, when a Torah scholar reads an English translation of Hebrew scriptures, he can't believe how many errors are in it.

    Let me give an example:

    There's a story about a man who is a righteous priest. The righteous priest lived during the time of Judges, before there were kings in Israel. It was considered a sin for a Jew to marry someone not a Jew. One of the Judges fell in love with a foreigner and married her. The righteous priest came with a spear and killed them both to protect the sanctity of Israel. He was rewarded by God by being elected the high priest.

    A torah scholar read that version and corrected it from his knowledge of Hebrew and Judaism. There was a man with the name of Cohen Tzadik, which means righteous priest. He was a descendent from the lineage of a great righteous priest but not necessarily one himself, that was his lineage. There was a judge in Israel before the time of kings who met his basherta, his soul-mate. And even though she was not a Jew, he loved her and risked ridicule to be with her.

    This man from the family of Cohen Tzadik murdered them both, but with a very good intention. He committed a sin because he killed two beloveds united by God. So God had to teach him a lesson. God gave him the responsibility of being the High Priest for all the people. His job was to beg the forgiveness and mercy of God for all the sins of the people and be their advocate. Because if a man could not cry tears of compassion for the sufferings and failings of others before God, he was not fit to be High Priest.

    So to awaken spirituality in this man, God wanted him to become a man of compassion and pray for the weaknesses of others.


    So it's clear that we can't judge a book by it's cover, or expect that the worst interpretations of something is the truth. There are beautiful, high noble truths underlying all religious scriptures, just as there are distortions. To a brahmgyani who has Turiya consciousness, the distinctions are superficial. Errors are there, yes. But truth is there also. A saint gazes at the diamond in the mud. A fool is only looking at the dirt.

    Now this is not to say that people who demonize or distort someone's faith to gain converts and money shouldn't be stopped. It is saying, we shouldn't become those people.

    "As men approach Me, so I receive them. All paths, Arjuna, lead to Me." ~Bhagavad Gita 4.11
    "They have called him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and the divine fine-winged Garuda; They speak of Indra, Yama, Matrarisvan: the One Being sages call by many names." ~Rig Veda 1.164.46

    ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੂਰਾ ॥
    jo eis maarae soee sooraa ||
    One who kills this is a spiritual hero.

    ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਸੋਈ ਪੂਰਾ ॥
    jo eis maarae soee pooraa ||
    One who kills this is perfect.

    ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥
    jo eis maarae thisehi vaddiaaee ||
    One who kills this obtains glorious greatness.

    ਜੋ ਇਸੁ ਮਾਰੇ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥
    jo eis maarae this kaa dhukh jaaee ||1||
    One who kills this is freed of suffering. ||1||

    ਐਸਾ ਕੋਇ ਜਿ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥
    aisaa koe j dhubidhhaa maar gavaavai ||
    How rare is such a person, who kills and casts off duality.

    ਇਸਹਿ ਮਾਰਿ ਰਾਜ ਜੋਗੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
    eisehi maar raaj jog kamaavai ||1|| rehaao ||
    Killing it, he attains Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1||Pause||
    ~SGGS Ji ang 237


  3. #73

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Now before there even was a Christian Bible, there were lots of different sects of Christians, in different countries and they believed different things. And one day the sect which gained political power came to arrest, torture and kill the others. So they fled out of their countries, and through India, and all the way to Tibet and China.

    Those people were the Gnostic Christians led by a mystic called Mani. The Dalai Lama has talked about how some Tibetan monasteries have preseved the actual words of Jesus. That Jesus, was Mani. And the Manichean beliefs are now interwoven with Tibetan and Pure Land Buddhism sects. So the intermingling of spiritual beliefs is already there, predating us by a couple thousand years. But it was a Christianity that modern missionaries wouldn't even recognize.

    "This development continued to Manichaeism's ultimate meeting with Chinese Buddhism, where, for example, the original Aramaic "karia" (the "call" from the world of light to those seeking rescue from the world of darkness), becomes identified in the Chinese scriptures with Guan Yin (觀音, literally, "hearing sounds [of the world]," the Bodhisattva of Compassion in Chinese Buddhism). and languages, it also adapted new religious deities from the surrounding religions into the Manichaean."http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Manicheanism
    "The extent of Mani’s dependence on Buddhism is a matter that has been much disputed. The attention of scholars was first directed to this possible source of Manichæism by the discovery of important features that are radically opposed to Zoroastrianism, Judaism and Christianity, and by the traditional historical connection of Mani with India and Turkestan...

    It is certain that parallels can be found in Buddhism for almost every feature of Manichæism that is sharply antagonistic to Zoroastrianism. The Buddhist view of matter as antagonistic to spirit is fundamental. It is the world of matter that deludes. It is the body and its passions that prevent the longed-for Nirvana.

    The Manichæan looked upon the elements of light (life) contained in animals and plants as particles of God, and any injury done to them as a hindrance to the escape of these elements, to be conveyed away into the Kingdom of Light. Both looked upon sexual intercourse as among the greatest of evils, though the theory in the two cases was slightly different. So of the drinking of wine, the eating of animal food, etc. The final state was conceived of in substantially the same way in the two systems.

    Nirvana, the blowing out of man’s life as an individual entity, is quite paralleled by the Manichæan view of the gradual escape of the imprisoned particles of light into the Kingdom of Light. In both cases the divine pleroma is to be restored in such a way as to destroy individual consciousness."
    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Nicene...sm_to_Buddhism
    A Divine Mother of Compassion. Gods and Goddesses. Vegetarianism. Reincarnation. Delusive nature of Maya in matter. Jyoti Jyot. Some variations of early Christianity are radically different from what we expect. Now a brahmgyani would know all this history. And a holy person could easily find original parallels within Christianity which are hidden and suppressed.

    What is ignorant is to think that in this Kaliyuga our spiritual communications have not been distorted from something more pure. I just think our human understanding is not that great, and our religions suit our level of development which is generally not very high. But there is still a thread of something precious, some ideal yearned for, some profound and wonderful mysteries alluded to, in every religious teaching.

    I mean what is Hindu nationality? Have you always been Hindu? Before you were born were you Hindu or Christian or Muslim or Buddhist? Or is there something beyond these labels?

    If you believe in reincarnation, did you aways take birth in a "Hindu" body? And is there really such a thing? Might you not at some time in history have been a Muslim, a Christian? Yogananda said a very interesting thing. (Paraphrase, my memory a little frail) He said something like, "a lot of Hindus from India are being born in America. And a lot of Americans are being born in India. Soon we will see India become more materialistic and corrupt and the west begin to study yoga and become more spiritual."

    The Dalai Lama also said "the (Buddhist) Dharma will shine in the West."

    Nationalism makes for good politics, but terrible spiritual interpretations. The atma has no nationality or borders.


    Guru Nanak Dev Ji the founder of Sikhism is believed by Tibetan Buddhists to be the reincarnation of Padmasambhava. For this reason, lamas make pilgrimage to the Golden Temple. Most Sikhs don't believe or accept this. Should they criticize the Dalai Lama and rudely tell him how ignorant he is of Sikh religion? And what if he is right?


    His Holiness the Dalai Lama visiting Golden Temple, Amritsar

    I think if all the channels, shamans, prophets, teachers, saints, and mystics were to get together and be absolutely clear about the impressions of Divine understanding they had received, they would all harmonize with the teachings of the Rishis. Why? Because "Truth is one, men call it by many names."


    "Guru Nanak went to Mecca. At night he was lying down with his feet toward the Kaaba, the house of God. The clergy-men over there rebuked him, "Why are you lying with your feet toward the house of God?" He politely told them, "Dear friend, I see God all around, there is no place where He is not. If you think there is any side where God is not, you may turn my feet that way." You see? So Masters say, "All is holy where devotion kneels." This is the first right understanding.


    A great Muslim Saint says, "The whole earth is blessed because God permeates all. If my followers find the time for prayers they can sit on any ground anywhere and say prayers to God. No matter what way their face is - because God is everywhere." The Koran, the Muslim scripture, also says: "God is everywhere." It matters little whether we face toward West or East; say your prayers where you are.


    So this is the first right understanding: We are living in Him, have our being in Him, He is in us, outside us, above us, below us. Like fish we have our existence in Him. That is right understanding. And further: God made man with equal privileges, all born the same way, no high, no low; all have got the same outer concessions - eyes, ears, etc., - and all have the same inner concession: we are kept in the body by some higher Power which is the same for all. So this is right understanding: that we have this thing - God resides in every heart - and that all is holy where devotion kneels, all are born with the same privileges from God - no high, no low, no East, no West. And this will result in right thoughts.


    On my last visit a meeting was called for the East and the West. Others who were visiting America attended this meeting, and I was also one of them. Each man told us where he was from. When my turn came up, I told them: "It is said, of course, that `East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet.' But there is no East and no West: the whole creation is the House of our Father. All countries are so many rooms in that House. It is we who made these things, on account of our want of right understanding." ~Sant Kirpal Singh
    http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/coming.htm
    I support Ananda Moyi Ma and Paramahansa Yogananda and Deepak Chopra And Swami Chidvilisananda as not being demolished at all, and the person doing political nindya against them as being very limited in understanding.


    Ananda Moyi Ma


    Paramahansa Yogananda


    Sant Kirpal Singh

    Condemning and criticizing other people's saints and gurus is against Dharma. It is not defending Dharma. Expose obvious evil-doing but don't destroy the faith of others.

  4. #74

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste Harjas Kaur ji,

    I would like to respond to your lengthy post on some of it's important points after you respond to a small query of mine(if you dont mind).

    Why would it not be wisdom to accept that people have religious faiths according to their temperament and karam and not require missionary conversion from one thing to another?


    Hinduism never had any problems with other faiths.The problem with Socalled Abrahamic religions like christianity(and islam) is they have an exclusivistic view on faith.It is like "either you are with me or against me"(ex: bible nt:
    luke :11 :23).

    So, if you want to accept that their faith is correct you will have to accept that your faith is wrong.There is no other way.

    How do you respond to this core ideology of these faiths?

  5. #75
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by chandu_69 View Post

    So, if you want to accept that their faith is correct you will have to accept that your faith is wrong.There is no other way.
    This is too black and white. My way is right, your way is wrong.

    Why not say: My way is right for me. Your way is right for you. Why does there have to be one right way? That's like saying there is a universal diet that all should eat, or a universal colour that all should accept as the best. (It IS blue, by the way.)

    Aum Namasivaya

  6. #76

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    This is too black and white. My way is right, your way is wrong.
    Yes, it is black and white, but Who is going to tell them(the Evangelists and jihadis).It has been that way and it is still that way with the socalled Abrahamic religions(Btw, jews, the original Abrahamic people mind their own faith).

    Em ji,

    you and Harjas Kaur are directing this advice to wrong people i.e. the Hindus.Hindus never had the attitude to impose their faith on others.



    Why not say: My way is right for me. Your way is right for you. Why does there have to be one right way?
    It never worked. Hindus were saying this For time immemorial while the evangelists and Jihadis were having their own way of imposing their respective faiths on Indians by way of Allurement or threat.

  7. #77

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Judge a man by his actions.

    So a civilisation that starts and ends the day with the accomplishment "that so many people enjoy comfortable lives" ---yet, where butcher-shops operate as just another enterprise among the scores of other "means of making a living" ---adds up to a samskara that consistantly delivers-up another generation destined for war. War afford people to apply themselves in austerites sacrifices etc ---in a ironical vicious cycle predicated on wonton digressions over the cource of each Peace-Time that defaults back to being the status quo of the day.

    Carpe diem should not equate to just another day of accumulated karmic debt.

    Carpe diem is a phrase from a Latin poem by Horace. It is popularly translated as "seize the day". The general definition of carpe is "pick, pluck, pluck off, gather" as in plucking, although Horace uses the word in the sense of "enjoy, make use of."
    Last edited by bhaktajan; 06 October 2009 at 11:58 AM.

  8. #78

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Hinduism never had any problems with other faiths.The problem with Socalled Abrahamic religions like christianity(and islam) is they have an exclusivistic view on faith.It is like "either you are with me or against me"(ex: bible nt: luke :11 :23).

    So, if you want to accept that their faith is correct you will have to accept that your faith is wrong.There is no other way.

    How do you respond to this core ideology of these faiths?

    First of all, I live in the United States. So I am familiar with the many different sects of Christianity including live near a very nice orthodox Jewish group and have had respectful and interesting conversations with some of their Rabbis. This is why I pointed out, respectfully to you, that although Judaism is indeed Abrahamic, I know for a fact that missionary conversion is against their teachings.

    So you err by over-generalizing ALL Abrahamic faiths as being one and the same thing, out to convert and destroy other cultures.

    You must also understand, there are so many different ideologies among these many Christian groups. Some are quite fanatical and equivalent to jihadis. I do not deny or ignore their danger. You don't know me but I have written expose on these groups for years warning of the dangers.

    My concern with this thread is that Hindus (I am a Hindu-Sikh) are in danger of veering into an equal extreme in response to this menace. What will people gain if they lose Dharma trying to protect Dharma? So, from that perspective I think a reasoned balance is required.


    You do realize that Jihadis target Jews, not so much due to religion, but due to the politics of the Israel-Palestinian conflict which is terribly unfortunate with evil things being done by both sides. However, if we take a blanket political view that All Abrahamic religions are BAD, and they ALL want to forcibly and fradulently CONVERT, we will misjudge the intentions of the Jews in India who are interested in outreach to ancient communities of fellow Jews there ONLY. And then our response will not be reasoned and balanced, but extremist and unfair.

    Moshe'le Holtzberg Crys "Mommy!"
    An emotional video of the Mumbai Jewish community and an Israeli delegation which held a ceremony in memory of the men and women murdered by terrorists at the Chabad center.

    Rabbi Shimon Rosenberg, the father of Chabad emissary and terrorst victim Mrs. Rivka Holtzberg, spoke of moving from Israel to Mumbai and run the Chabd House there in till Little Moshe'le grows up and is old enough to lead it himself.

    Mrs' Rosenberg the grandmother broke into tears as she hears her 2 year-old grandson Moishe'le cry and search for his mother.

    So, you are asking me personally, and I'm honestly trying to explain. I would without hesitation support armed combat if necessary to stop an evil person from committing a crime against people I love and my own community. In some cases the missionary outreach in India must be stopped through force and there is no other way.

    However, if people are to act from Dharmic principles, first they must not do what the fanatics do, and that is to mix one thing together with another thing. All Jews are not BAD, all Christians are not BAD, all Muslims are not BAD. To demonize a religion (Sikhs are familiar with this) makes a target out of everybody in that religion. And then innocent people get killed.

    When a religious group feels assaulted, aggrieved, and their rights denied. Sometimes they overreact. This was the case with Ajaib Singh Bagri who announced publicly that 50,000 Hindus should be killed in retaliation for Operation Bluestar. And the following year Air India 182 exploded mid-flight killing all 329 people including women and children.


    Air India 182 - Trailer
    On June 22, 1985, Air India 182 left Montreal, bound for New Delhi. Four hours after takeoff, a bomb ripped through the baggage compartment, killing all 329 people on board. It was the most deadly act of air terrorism in history before 9/11. The film counts down the final weeks and hours before Air India 182 disappeared off Irish radar screens and we sleepwalked into the era of international terrorism.


    Air India flight 182 memorial

    This is how inflammatory anger overreacts and loses Dharma. We have to defend the Dharma against all onslaughts of evil, and this includes the distortions and tendancies in our own minds and hearts. To protect the precious Dharma, it must be from within as well as from without.

    Since that time, the Sikh radicals have done nothing but demonize Hindus as evil. Is this right? Is this Dharma? Should Sikhs listen to them and walk that path? Should Hindus listen to you? Where will your path lead if genocide is the predictable result of ostracizing and demonizing anybody? Does this make anybody's communities safer?

    So it is my honest opinion that this approach is too short sighted. You think you are solving one problem by waking up communities to a danger, but you risk creating a larger problem that in demonizing an entire religion, people will overreact and scapegoat those groups and going to the same level as the fanatics by targeting innocents for hatred and animosity and violence.

    So, if you want to accept that their faith is correct you will have to accept that your faith is wrong.There is no other way.

    How do you respond to this core ideology of these faiths?

    If I accept their faith is correct then I believe in their exclusivity teaching. But because I believe they have a wrong understanding of profound spiritual concepts I don't invent an exclusivity teaching of my own to shun them. I won't waste my time arguing with them either. I accept that they are at a level of spiritual development where an extremist faith speaks to them and meets their needs. I have the maturity to recognize that until those needs are met, the extremism won't stop either. So it really isn't a religious or interpretive scripture issue. There are politics of deprivation and feelings of wretchedness and being wronged which are at issue here.

    And I reiterate, if you want to stop the missionaries in India then you have to address the needs of the communities they exploit. These are usually the tribals, the poor, the Dalits, the discriminated. These are the people converting to Christianity, Islam and Communism with a hate for India.

    "The word 'dalit(a)' comes from the Sanskrit - root 'dal' - and means 'held under check' ,'suppressed', or 'crushed', or, in a looser sense, 'oppressed'.
    Dr. B. R. Ambedkar, a Dalit, and one of the leaders of India's Independence movement, is considered the chief architect of the Indian Consitution, in which Article 17 abolishes untouchability. Since, under the aegis of the Constitution of India affirmative action has now been implemented for the uplift of the 'Dalits'.


    The term scheduled castes/scheduled tribes (SC/ST) along with non-caste tribes are also used in the Indian legal system to refer to this social group in India."

    http://www.statemaster.com/encyclope...%28outcaste%29
    We have to address why they hate and why they are hurt before we can ever win their hearts in any debate with fundamentalists.

    Now believe me when I say I'm familiar with fundamentalists. There are pro-Khalistanis in most North American Sikh sangats. They only talk about how wronged they are and how evil the other community is. This is the psychology which attunes them to retributive violence. So when a Hindu group starts talking the same dynamics as the Khalistanis, I feel it will result in the same kind of "counter-terrorism" to the one perceived. I agree missionaries have to be stopped. They are funded by foreign governments with the intention to take over vote blocs in India and influence Indian elections favorable to the foreign powers. But stopping missionaries and curtailing their agenda is radically different from demonizing and trashing EVERY Christian community. You don't like it when they do it to Hindus. What makes you think you will succeed when you do it to them?

    What you are dealing with in the Indian Christian missionary phenomenon is not really a religious group of fanatics. But a religious group funded and trained by the American CIA for a subversive military purpose. And it makes me wonder who is behind the Hindu fundamentalists. Because if all sides are working against the center, soon the center will give way. And that is the ultimate anti-nationalism.

    Overreacting to Christians in general won't solve any of these problems. The nature of these problems is far more insidious. That's why we need to address with dasvandh/charity the needs of the communities the missionaries target. We should back policies which break down barriers of discrimination, lack of housing, food, child labor, exploitation in the form of criminal gangs and forced prostitution, the destruction of farmers by Monsanto. Until we meet the egregious needs, don't be surprised to see missionaries and Naxals and jihadis and Khalistanis. That is where they recruit their militants from, from the discriminated and aggrieved. Look at the document China has written stating India should be broken into pieces by turning one community against another. In targeting the Christian missionary problem you might be playing into China's game plan. And since the US is indebted to China, it might also be the CIA's game plan.

    But in any event, you have to look at who is manipulating and funding the fundamentalists.

    Break India, says China think-tank
    TNN 12 August 2009, 02:21am IST

    You will no more stop a demonic mentality who is a fundamentalist bent on conversion then you will stop a criminal from committing crimes. So why should we develop a demonic mentality in return by isolating others, by Hindu exclusivism, by hating and trashing the beliefs and teachings of others? If you have a higher belief and teaching, what is there to prove? Your "enemy" is greater than you even imagine if you think it's just jihadi groups and fundamentalist groups.
    Naxals behead kidapped policeman PTI
    Wednesday, October 07th, 2009
    http://www.sakaaltimes.com/2009/10/0...d-policem.html

    Jharkhand police officer Francis Induwar’s wife Sunati Indwar, centre, cries after her husband’s body was found on Tuesday

    There are games within games within games being played at India's expense. And the central government had better wake up to the threat. But waking up to the threat doesn't mean becoming a Hindu fundamentalist with zero tolerance of other nationalities or religions. That simply means your enemy has already won and you lose Dharma.

    "We are only in the very dawn of COMMERCE, and we owe that dawn, with all its promise to the channels opened up by CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES ... The effect of the missionary enterprise of the English speaking people will be to bring them the ... CONQUEST OF THE WORLD."- Rev. Frederick Gates, Baptist Minister

    Letter to John D. Rockefeller, Sr.

    April 17, 1905

    Christian Missionaries, CIA Agents?
    http://www.timboucher.com/journal/20...es-cia-agents/

    We don't have to deal with them through a similar version of religious hatred. But they should be dealt with as anti-nationalists, agitators, and threats to the security of the nation of India. They should be exposed as part of a Colonial paradigm of repression and hate against Hinduism and Hindu culture. They should be exposed as part of a racist agenda to slander and defame all nationalities of indigenous Indian persons.

    So I think them no less a threat. But I don't lump every Christian group into the same category. And I don't think trashing respected Hindu saints and swamis does less than their agenda to derail Dharmic teaching and replace it with an asuric counterpart answerable to neferious foreign governments.

    Bhul chak maaf karni ji
    Last edited by Harjas Kaur; 06 October 2009 at 07:45 PM.

  9. #79
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Harjas Kaur:

    I agree. We have to stand up. Not in the same way they (Christians, Islam) do, but in defense, and in educational ways. But words are useless without action in these matters. I'm not sure what I could do now, in my position, but I did successfully get the organisation 'Samaritan's Purse' out of the school I used to work in by making a fuss. And every time I encounter some young missionary going overseas, I put in my two bits that "The Hindus are fine without you." The government of India has to peacefully ban coerced conversion, and follow up on it with the law. There is a lot of work. Even amongst Hindus themselves. The few of us here who recognised the problem were in a hurry to build our temple. Some of the Sri Lankans especially were going to Christian churches. But once we got Ganesha worship going, they came bacxk over right away.

    It is one thing to talk about it on forums such as these, and totally another to write a letter to your congressman pointing the agression of certain groups, and how it impacts America`s image internationally.

    Aum Namasivaya

  10. #80

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Harjas Kaur:

    I agree. We have to stand up. Not in the same way they (Christians, Islam) do, but in defense, and in educational ways. But words are useless without action in these matters. I'm not sure what I could do now, in my position, but I did successfully get the organisation 'Samaritan's Purse' out of the school I used to work in by making a fuss. And every time I encounter some young missionary going overseas, I put in my two bits that "The Hindus are fine without you." The government of India has to peacefully ban coerced conversion, and follow up on it with the law. There is a lot of work. Even amongst Hindus themselves. The few of us here who recognised the problem were in a hurry to build our temple. Some of the Sri Lankans especially were going to Christian churches. But once we got Ganesha worship going, they came bacxk over right away.

    It is one thing to talk about it on forums such as these, and totally another to write a letter to your congressman pointing the agression of certain groups, and how it impacts America`s image internationally.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Thank you.

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