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Thread: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

  1. #21
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste Satay.

    Quote Originally Posted by satay
    the next time someone tries to shovetheir religion on you, we can politely reply by saying, 'sorry, not shopping for a new religion. thanks'
    I think we must do more than that: we must debate their views and concepts on the spot. Better, we might invite them for a debate with a group of us. Intellectual aggression is not lack of politeness. We must try to make them understand the Hindu concept of God, why our Brahman and the Trinity under Him are far superior philosophy.

    I tried this approach in a limited way, when two Christian women and a man came to my house one afternoon. That was in the heart of Mylapore, Chennai, an area of Hindu tradition and values! They told me that they belonged to the Jehovah's Witness group. I knew nothing about Jehovah and only later checked it on the Net. The fun was that they said the JW was not a Christian sect and that their God Jehovah was superior to every other God, including 'Jesus and your Shiva and Vishnu to whom He taught meditation!' They gave me a couple of pamphlets.

    There was large photograph of Bhagavan Satya Sai Baba in their full view behind my back. I told them, "If you want to debate about your God versus ours, I am ready, and can prove how your approach lacks philosophical and religious depth. Since I believe in my Gods I don't need your Jehovah or switch over to your ways of worship. We have a God in Human form right now, the photograph you see here. You know what he says? He says his mission is not to establish a superior form of Hinduism and covert people to that path, but to see that as his devotee, a Christian becomes a better Christian, a Hindu a better Hindu, a Muslim a better Muslim and so on. His mission is to unite people not divide them on religion. So please try to see the reason and give up your ways against humanity. You are welcome to my house as a guest, as a friend with mutual appreciation, but not as a missionary."

    Though they nodded their heads in agreement and went away, I was sure that they would never change.

  2. #22
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste MG.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi
    Is missionaries a new problem in India? Or has it been going on a long time? Is it just Jehovah's Witness or Christians also?
    The missionaries activities started in the British Rule. TM Macaulay, Max Mueller and others effectly conspired to destroy the Hindu values, divide them by preferential treatment of castes, pitting Hindus and Muslims against each other, and many other viley ways. Here are two quotes from Macaulay that prove the point:

    1. Lord Macaulay's address to the British Parliament on February 2, 1835: "I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is its spiritual and cultural heritage... And, therefore, I propose that we replace its old and ancient education system, its culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation."

    2. "...It is impossible for us, with our limited means, to attempt to educate the body of the people. We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect..."
    Macaulay's sons and daughters are rampant in modern India spread widely across the society and the media.

    It is mainly the RC church that indulges in missionary activities; the others, I think, are not that aggressive, but lurking in the background and deluding people with their own dogma. A typical way is to enter a poor man's house and pretend to pray, say for his ailing wife. Then give her a normal medicine in the name of Jesus, and when she gets cured, declare that it was her faith to Jesus that cured her, so the family much part ways with their pagan religion.

    There is a proverb in Tamil that the house where a tortoise enters or an ameena (a person from the lawcourt) enters would come to ruins. We need to add the missionary to this list today.

    Missionaries won't be a problem at all in India, if the Central and State governments do not aid and abet them in their politics for minority vote bank. The state of Gujarat where BJP rules is now the number one state in India in progress and welfare. This state has a law against religious conversion by coercion or enticement. Such laws should be enacted by governments of all states not just in India, but the world over, where democracy is the form of government.
    Last edited by saidevo; 10 February 2009 at 10:15 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Pranam

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    namaste everyone,

    What is our duty that is my question.


    To follow our Dharma is our foremost duty, this path is not paved with rose petals infect it is like walking on a double edge sword. The biggest danger I perceive is not from the evangelical push nor from the mulas who actually are hell bent in destroying even a slightest bit off peace that they so desire. For centuries they ruled us, one with sword and other with cohesion yet against all the odds the Dharma still survive.why, because Vedas means knowledge and the truth always prevail. Our ancestors were steadfast in their faith and this other religions are like holding candle in front of the sun.

    In my view the material pursuit is the biggest danger, what those outside influence could not do for centuries, the relentless pursuit of all thing material a very fertile ground for them to move back in.

    Our Dharma is based on tapa and sacrifices and if that was not enough we have some how to navigate our way out of superstition, the misinformation of varnashram system and various different method of worship and concepts, enough to confuse anyone.

    I see lot of temples in India lacking in their duty to improve the surroundings and giving the necessary knowledge, instead all they are after is your money, this must change


    There are no easy answer or solutions but we must persevere in our own pursuit of truth and trough which if we exhibit tranquility and happiness, other surely would follow after all that is what we are hankering for, no amount of material possession has ever provided this.


    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  4. #24

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    It is mainly the RC church that indulges in missionary activities; the others, I think, are not that aggressive, but lurking in the background and deluding people with their own dogma. A typical way is to enter a poor man's house and pretend to pray, say for his ailing wife. Then give her a normal medicine in the name of Jesus, and when she gets cured, declare that it was her faith to Jesus that cured her, so the family much part ways with their pagan religion.
    Namaste Saidevo,

    RC is more sophisticated and tried such means as "Catholic Ashrams" where Catholic preists would dress up in the traditional orange robes of a sannyasin in a hope that culture doesn't provide a barrier to Jesus. (One can only laugh at the level of stupidity and mis-understanding of another culture).

    However highest conversion success, particularly among the tribals and backward classes belong to hardcore Baptists. Baptists unlike catholics are blut against anything non-christian, but still manage more conversion simpley because they go the distance none else goes ~ u will find baptist missions deep in the tribal forrest belts of India.

    It is true that if Govt is on side of dharma missionaries will be a non-problem. My religion tells me that if govt is right then nothing will be a problem for central administration of a society holds the key to the destiny of the society. India as a whole have not seen a dharmic govt since about 1200 years ?

  5. #25
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    namaste everyone,

    I have to agree with singhi. Baptists are ruder in the sense that they have no sympathy for anyone outside of their beliefs including RCs and people that belong to other 2000 christian denominations.

    This 'Missionary problem' existed from the British raj and in the days of our respected gandhi yet missionaries had limited success. The limited success was due to the fact that indians were still kind of half awake (or is it half asleep) and people like vivekanand and gandhi etc. shut the missionaries down with their own 'you are all gods!' message.

    However, situation today is much much worse because missionaries are employing all unethical tactics as well as our own youth is sleeping and not competent enough to stand up to any of this. On top of that as soon as even a single hindu speaks out like saidevo did here, he is labelled a militant hindu and such titles.

    This 'all paths leads to GOD' is supported by the LORD in his instructions in Gita, however, are all paths the same?

    Ask any christian or muslim are they trying to experience the same GOD as we are. Most christians for example are looking to be with god in the heavens, spend eternity with him, in worship. This implies duality still exists in heaven for eternity.

    For those of you who think that all paths are the same, next time, tell a christian, "I am GOD" and see what happens.

    Let's examine how adi shankara did it when buddhism was sweeping the nation of bharata, with intellectual debates. Now look at how the bhakti movement contributed to that...by making Buddha an 'avtara' of LORD!!!
    In fact, the hindu temple here in our city has Buddha's statue sitting right beside the LORD!

    The point here is that today's hindu is in much much worse shape than the hindus in the past this is due to many reasons and the onslaugth of adharmic forces has become as unethical as it possible can be all in the name of GOD!

    What is our instruction arjunas?

    'All paths lead to me' and 'be my vehicle to annihilate these adharmic forces'

    Dust off the copy of your Gita and for God's sake Read it!!

    enough for today...
    satay

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Two related current news links:

    Evangelisation or Satanism: Cause and effect
    http://newstodaynet.com/2007sud/feb07/070207.htm

    Hindu and Jewish religious leaders sign declaration
    http://www.kanchiforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1947

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Note
    This topic is very very delicate and important. There is a lot to think about and dharma depends on how we as santanis act/react to this.

    Please allow enough time to understand the situation.

    For example for me, I can not comment on this more than a couple of times a day...
    satay

  8. #28

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    This 'all paths leads to GOD' is supported by the LORD in his instructions in Gita, however, are all paths the same?
    Where ?? ... unless u mean Ramakrishna by LORD.

    Last 3 chapters of Gita make it very clear that all paths will not lead to God.

    Vedas only said that truth can be expressed in many ways, I haven't heard the reverse implication being said in Vedas.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I think no path leads to God, but, God leads to God...that's the final message of Gita as well.

  9. #29
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Namaste Yajvan.

    The conflict arises when the God of one path is projected as superior to others.
    Namaste saidevo,

    you speak wisely .. this has been my point all along this string.
    We're gracious with others... to fight that mine-is-better-then-yours shows a lack of clarity and a myopic view of the Truth.

    Now, what do the wise say (Vidura , from the Mahabrahata, some say one of the wisest ever on this earth) that may help with this grace?

    Forgiveness
    There is one only defect in forgiving persons, and not another; that defect is that people take a forgiving person to be weak. That defect however, should not be taken into consideration, for forgiveness is a great power. Forgiveness is a virtue of the weak, and an ornament of the strong. Forgiveness subdues (all) in this world; what is there that forgiveness cannot achieve? What can a wicked person do unto him who carries the sabre of forgiveness in his hand? Fire falling on a grassless ground is extinguished of itself. And unforgiving individual defiles himself with many enormities. Righteousness is the one highest good; and forgiveness is the one supreme peace; knowledge is one supreme contentment; and benevolence, one sole happiness.

    Being Noble and Balanced
    Sacrifice, study, charity, asceticism, truth, forgiveness, mercy, and contentment constitute the eight different paths of righteousness. The first four of these may be practised from motives of pride, but the last four can exist only in those that are truly noble.


    The Company we keep
    As fuel that is wet burns with that which is dry, so a sinless man is punished equally with the sinful in consequence of constant association with the latter. Therefore, friendship with the sinful should be avoided. ... Self-knowledge and steadiness, patience and devotion to virtue, competence to keep counsels and charity, - these, O Bharata, never exist in inferior men. Fools seek to injure the wise by false reproaches and evil speeches. The consequence is, that by this they take upon themselves the sins of the wise, while the latter, freed from their sins, are forgiven. In malice lies the strength of the wicked; in criminal code, the strength of kings, in attentions of the weak and of women; and in forgiveness that of the virtuous.

    Last and most important, From Sri Krsna (BG3.31) - I will not type it and allow people to look to this chapter in the Bhagavad gita.

    pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #30
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Pranam yajvan ji

    I like your balance view on this subject, and thank you for the wonderful quote from mahabharat on forgiveness, which incidentally I was going to post


    We are at this stage in history, after so many years of subjugation; lost as to what is our duty. If we are chasing goals that are not very dharmic we stand very little chance against the religious on-slot from outside.What they could not do in thousands of years we will undo in no time.


    "Yato Dhrmah Tato Jayah" - Where Dharma exists victory is guaranteed.

    "Dharmo hi paramo loke Dharme satyam pratisthitam"
    Dharma is supreme in the world, and truth is based on Dharma
    - The Ramayana

    So fight we must, just as Krishna says but first we must identify our real enemy.

    Protect the Dharma and Dharma will protect us.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

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