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Thread: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

  1. #31
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste All,

    Wow! This has been a very interesting discussion so far. To me, one of the most beautiful things about Hinduism is the fullness (like MG said), and the simplicity in what seems utterly complex. What has come down to us is hundreds of generations worth of realizations based on personal experiences of countless wise men and women. The fact that Hinduism is very open-minded when it comes to other religions and does not condemn anyone for not believing in what we do, is something I take pride in. I would never want that to go away, ever! I can see the beauty in Jesus’ teachings, in Buddha’s teachings, in Guru Nanak’s teachings and can fully appreciate them all while still being a good Hindu. Seeing the sameness in difference - as Znanna says - it intrigues me as well. Underneath all the differences, I do believe there is oneness. From that angle, I know why Sri Ramakrishna said the things he said; I know why Yogananda quotes from the Bible in his book; and I can understand why the Hindu universalist movement has gained ground in the last 200 years.

    But, does that mean we should dilute Hindu doctrine with universalism, and is Hindu doctrine essentially universalism? I tend to think not. I personally subscribe to the idea (and this is not my original idea) that there are two dimensions to modern Hindu Dharma: the universal dimension and the sampradaya (sectarian) dimension. On the one hand, we can appreciate that there is truth and Divinely-inspired wisdom in all faiths. On the other hand, we also need to be true to the particular tradition we follow, and preserve it. In my opinion, Sri Ramakrishna also did this. He was a mystic. He experimented with the teachings of different religions, and declared that no religion is necessarily wrong, but he continued to be a Shakta Hindu, and worshipped Mother Kali all his life. He didn’t tell anyone to give up their religion, to dilute it down, or become something they are not. He never declared “everything is one and same” at least as far as I know.

    So, how do we protect the Dharma? By disseminating right knowledge. I fully agree with Ganesh Prasad on this point. It is our dharma to explain the Dharma in a rational and clear manner, and end the endless confusion. Hindu Dharma has left no stone unturned as far as theological and philosophical insights go. There is also a lot of medieval baggage in Indian Hinduism that needs to go (and is going, but ever so slowly). There is no other way. A person who is knowledgeable, who is capable of questioning the doctrines being fed to him will not accept anything at face value.

    Na hi jnanena sadrisham pavitram iha vidyate
    Verily there is no purifier in this world greater than knowledge.

    OM Shanti,
    A.
    In whom the Adityas, Rudras and Vasus are held together; in whom are set firm the worlds; that which was and that which shall be – tell me of that Support – who may He be? (Atharvaveda Samhita X.7.22)


  2. #32
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    namaste all,
    After further review of this thread, I feel that my own posts might be against the main rule of the site 'positive presentation of hindu dharma'.

    Therefore, I am going to resign from this discussion. I don't want to disturb the peace of the forum!

    Sorry, If I hurt anyone's feelings here.
    satay

  3. #33
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    I have been looking at this conversation and the words are the same ones that started a lot of wars. Everyone seems the think that the religion or way of life they follow is the right or best way. Well , it is not.

    The world is vastly different from the one that existed when most religious books were written and the ways of life in those books are mostly out of date today. Some where someone have to realise the in the modern work life is different and so the way of life has to be different. And improved lifestyle or and updated view of brahman and spirituality.

    Like the modern military the war that these words are fighing is long over and the tactics are no longer effective. Modern times requires different methods and in the persent there are distraction that were not present in the past. People want more things because people want to sell these things and advertisements are constant today, people get to see how people in other countries live and wonder " why cannot I live that way" and they want a better life and better job.

    Slowly but sure religions are falling apart because it has offered nothing in a spiritual sence to the follower and so the followers are walking off and looking for a better deal other places. Why do you think the missionaries are in india anyway? Probably because people back home give then the stiff arm. And a lot of denominations won't even fund missionaries any more.

  4. #34
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi View Post
    I followed the link to Agnideva's home page several days ago and have been reading it. Great website!
    Just a little disclaimer. I am in no way affiliated with Shaivam.org. The site is listed in my profile as "my homepage" because it happens to be one of my favorite sites on Hinduism and Shaivism.
    Last edited by Agnideva; 07 February 2007 at 10:29 PM.
    In whom the Adityas, Rudras and Vasus are held together; in whom are set firm the worlds; that which was and that which shall be – tell me of that Support – who may He be? (Atharvaveda Samhita X.7.22)


  5. #35
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Pranam Satay ji
    namaste all,
    After further review of this thread, I feel that my own posts might be against the main rule of the site 'positive presentation of hindu dharma'.

    Therefore, I am going to resign from this discussion. I don't want to disturb the peace of the forum!

    Sorry, If I hurt anyone's feelings here.

    I don’t know why you feel you need to be sorry or indeed resign from this discussion(ps i see you care much to much so there is no danger)

    The fire the drive and passion for Dharma should never be extinguish all we need is to channel it in right direction, (what is the right direction) I certainly do not have the answer but we all have our views.

    Believe me I feel just as passionate, upset and frustrated, if not more, when in the name of religion, by cohesion or inducement the poor and the tribal people are converted. We will be failing in our duty if we just stood by and did nothing.That would be nothing sort of cowardice.

    The chink in the armor, as I see it is our own drive for imitating and westernize at the expense of our culture and values, this would make a very fertile ground for anti Hindu Dharma to move in.(sorry for harping on)

    We have to tackle, all the fronts, to bring back the glories of Hindu Dharma to forefront, but then my friend Atanu ji would remind me that nothing moves without his will, but his will, we must all do, without any hate in us, with firm faith and Dharma on our side victory is guaranteed.

    Jai Shree Krishna
    Rig Veda list only 33 devas, they are all propitiated, worthy off our worship, all other names of gods are derivative from this 33 originals,
    Bhagvat Gita; Shree Krishna says Chapter 3.11 devan bhavayatanena te deva bhavayantu vah parasparam bhavayantah sreyah param avapsyatha Chapter 17.4 yajante sattvika devan yaksa-raksamsi rajasah pretan bhuta-ganams canye yajante tamasa janah
    The world disappears in him. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second.

  6. #36
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by maruti View Post
    I don't think shame is the reason. Hinduism itself is the reason! According to Hinduism, what you call 'several gods' must be maya, because God is only One without a second. This is why Indian youth is discarding the devas, they don't want to pray to illusions. It's because they want to follow Hinduism properly.
    Namaste Maruti,

    First of all, welcome to HDF .

    Two questions for you:

    1. Where does it say that the Gods or Devas are illusions? (remember Hindus see the One without a second in all forms).

    2. What do you mean "follow Hinduism properly"?


    OM Shanti,
    A.
    In whom the Adityas, Rudras and Vasus are held together; in whom are set firm the worlds; that which was and that which shall be – tell me of that Support – who may He be? (Atharvaveda Samhita X.7.22)


  7. #37
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste Satay.

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    namaste all,
    After further review of this thread, I feel that my own posts might be against the main rule of the site 'positive presentation of hindu dharma'.

    Therefore, I am going to resign from this discussion. I don't want to disturb the peace of the forum!

    Sorry, If I hurt anyone's feelings here.
    No, you haven't violated the main rule, so please do involve yourself in the discussions, which is important.

    The crux of the problem of a 'positive presentation of hindu dharma' seems to be two-fold:

    1. To educate the grass roots, which is more urgently needed.
    2. To acquaint the modern Hindu youth and the children with all facets of HInduism.

    Why don't we think about the ways and means to achieve these things, in addition to discussing the danger to Hindu Dharma? Let us request the members to offer their practical suggestions for the two tasks mentioned above. Let us also know about the work of Hindu Institutions who are already doing the job. Leaving the politicians out, let us try to collect our knowledge and energy about what is being done, what we need to do to strengthen and expand it and how we go about it. HDF members have the knowledge and experiece to channelize them so it reaches the grass roots and the barren minds of youth who are influenced by the western culture.

    We might start a new thread for this purpose, and let us first hear from Sri Satay, our leader.

  8. #38
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste Maruti,

    Quote Originally Posted by maruti View Post
    If Brahman alone is real and the world an illusion, then gods, devas etc. must be illusions. But aren't these forms unreal?
    So, tell me Maruti, do you believe you exist? Or do consider your form an illusion as well?

    If these forms are real and Brahmin 'in' them is also real, then we'll have two realities, and that will contradict Hindu philosophy of "Brahman Satya Jagat Mithya."
    There is no such thing as "Hindu philosophy." There are Hindu philosophies, many schools of them. One reality, two or three are all part of various Hindu philosophies.

    OM Shanti,
    A.
    In whom the Adityas, Rudras and Vasus are held together; in whom are set firm the worlds; that which was and that which shall be – tell me of that Support – who may He be? (Atharvaveda Samhita X.7.22)


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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnideva View Post
    So, tell me Maruti, do you believe you exist? Or do consider your form an illusion as well?
    OM Shanti,
    A.
    By "your form", do you mean the body or the soul? Illusion if the former, Brahman if the latter.

    There is no such thing as "Hindu philosophy." There are Hindu philosophies, many schools of them. One reality, two or three are all part of various Hindu philosophies.
    Perhaps, but Vedanta is considered the highest in Hinduism. All great personalities like Vivekananda, Raman Maharishi etc. followed Vedanta. Besides, even other schools have the influence of this particular school. Hence Advaita best represents Hinduism.

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste Maruti,

    Quote Originally Posted by maruti View Post
    According to Sankara, the world is an illusion, hence the famous statement: Brahman Sathya Jagat Mithya. No Hindu worth the name would contradict this. If you say even a child would know it's not correct, are you suggesting Sankara and other Advaitins were ignorant?
    The term Mithya does not mean illusion. It actually means 'neither Sat' nor 'Asat', in other words, a temporary or conditional reality. Brahman is the absolute reality, Sat, called pAramArthika satyaM. The other extreme, the absolute non-existence, e.g., a hare's horn, is the 'asat'. This world is neither 'sat' nor 'asat'. Such things that are neither 'sat' nor 'asat' are placed under the catogory of 'mithya', which is a conditional, operational and subjective reality. Sankara's famous statement implies that this 'jagat' or world is 'mithya', which is not absolute reality but is real as long as it exists. It is the ‘vyAvahArika satyaM’ or operational reality and comes under the catogory 'mithya'.

    Our dreams are real as long as we have them. They are “prAtibhAsika satyaM” or subjective reality, coming under the category 'mithya'.

    Had Sankara meant 'illusion' for the term 'mithya', he would not have suggested and set an example for the elabortate path of 'bhakti' to prepare the body and soul for the ultimate path of 'jnana' that would get Self-Realization and liberate the soul.

    Christians and Muslims wrongly interpret Maya as Illusion instead of Conditional Reality and therefore they taunt us Hindus with that concept. While we cannot care less for what they interpret, we ourselves need to be clear about Maya and Mithya. For a discussion of Advaita for beginners, check http://www.advaitin.net/advaitadialogue.pdf.

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