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Thread: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

  1. #51

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste Saidevo,

    The links in the thread you referred to work fine. Thanks.

    BTW, I have also posted part 3 of the Bad Manna video on facebook.

    Breaking up the family structure and destroying the social fabric of a nation, has to be stopped.

    Pranam,

    Devi

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Three more Hindu Websites for Hindu dharma protection and awarness:

    News about attacks on Hindu dharma and action in retaliation:
    Hindu Janajagruti Samiti
    http://www.hindujagruti.org/

    Aims at fostering spiritual growth in an individual:
    Sanatan Sanstha
    http://www.sanatan.org/

    Extensive research in the spiritual realm
    http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/

  3. #53
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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Maanoj Rakhit – 'a great intellectual Kshatriya (warrior) in the tradition of Aurobindo Ghosh, Sitaram Goel and Ram Swarup', has written some books exposing the adharma of Christianity. The books are downloadable here at his Website: http://www.maanojrakhit.com/index.htm

    Here is a series of articles about this man and his works by V.Sundaram, the famous, forthright columnist of the magazine News Today:

    http://www.newstodaynet.com/col.php?...id=33&id=11397

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post

    It is strange, and smacks of hypocrisy that the Western faiths that believe in democracy as the most refined form of governance try to be autocratic and despotic when it comes to religion. And their followers blindly submit to religious authority, unlike us Hindus.
    Namaste Saidevo,

    I bet that when mentioning Western faiths that believe in democracy, you did not mean Islam. With regard to Christianity, for me as a European, it may be easier to understand what you call "strange". When the British came to India, they did not bring a purely christian culture, and that is a complex circumstance that must have been difficult to imagine for Hindus, who will have had more consistent and harmonious world views. The churches who expected their followers to submit blindly to religious authority had supported very undemocratic political regimes for centuries. They had opposed science and freedom of thought. These things, which Hindus probably value in the culture of many present-day christians, had, in fact, not been Christian since Christianity was created or re-created by the churches in the fourth century AD. They reluctantly accepted democracy and science after renaissance, when their power had begun to decline. This acceptance made it possible for them to survive the decline of ignorance in Europe.
    Moreover, catholics who got fed up with being told by church what to believe had revolted and started the so-called reformation (protestantism). I apologize for mentioning this to readers who already know. This reformation also favoured the rise of democracy (In Switzerland, it was the other way round). But Christians became democrats because they had, from a medieval viewpoint, become less Christian.

    And where did the democratic and scientific ideas come from? To a large extent from the pagans who had preceded Christianity in Europe, especially in Greece, from people whose religion was much less developed, but similar to Hinduism, because of a common origin, parallel developments and Hindu influence around the Mediterranean.

    Christian missionaries in Africa have showed off with the achievements of their "Christian" culture to impress candidates for conversion, and they have probably done the same in India. In reality, these were rather achievements of the non-christian elements in Western culture, many of which we more or less share with Hindus. If Christianity contributed to science or democracy, then mainly by forcing educated liberal Westerners to defend themselves better.

    Now, does this mean that christians are hypocrites? I think it means they simply don´t know their history, and sometimes it also means that they carry a conflict in themselves between our pagan and our christian heritage, and don´t know themselves what to think.

    I think it is not a coincidence that India is a democracy, and that Pakistan is not, despite being somewhat more to the West.
    Last edited by Gotam; 09 February 2009 at 04:27 PM.

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    The uniqueness of Sanatana Dharma is that right from the most illiterate who is gullible and believes in blind supererstitions and sentiments to the Self-realized sage knows and says that God is One, call Him/It by any name. The difference lies only in the degree of realization.

    The conflict arises when the God of one path is projected as superior to others. We have conflicts among our own Hindu sects and debate if Shiva or Vishnu or Krishna is superior, but the none of the sects attempts to force its concepts on the others or convert others to its path. This is true of all Indian religions. Whereas the Western religions are exclusive, aggressive, belligerent and even violent, and attempt to bring the whole world under their own religions umbrella that denies individual freedom for seeking God. This is what we should fight against.
    Namaste Saidevo,

    do you mean that the degree of realisation that is possible in Christianity would be welcomed as a contribution to Sanatana Dharma if Christians gave up their exclusiveness? Judging from the changing mentality in Europe, I think such scenarios have become less unthinkable than they used to be, and many "Christians" may one day see their religion as a limited subset of the eternal dharma.

    In the West, being denied the individual freedom for seeking God, many have concentrated on other individual freedoms, and this has led to scientific and technological progress, while the realm of the spirit was left to the dogmatics and got more and more neglected by the educated. But there is a growing consciousness that we can learn from Hindus in that field.

    That said, I am really amazed about those missionaries in India. Here in Europe, the churches have to be very modest and diplomatic in order to avoid alienating what is left of their followers. We have proselytising sects like Mormons and Jehova´s witnesses, but nobody listens to them. If you can send those silly missionaries to Europe, they will have a hard time here!

    Aum Santih.
    Last edited by Gotam; 09 February 2009 at 04:34 PM.

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Sorry if I interferes in this debate but I have noticed many wrong things:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gotam View Post
    And where did the democratic and scientific ideas come from? To a large extent from the pagans who had preceded Christianity in Europe, especially in Greece,
    -The idea of democracy in Greece has developed against the religious tradition, and the same thing in India. For all the Dharmic religions the Kings must rules, not all the people without differences!
    The most important writer of the democracy in Greece was protagoras: in his opinion the man is the foundation of all values of justice and injustice.
    According to him, the men are the foundation of all the values and not the Gods : this is the famous relativism...

    From this kind of personal and fallible opinions the democratic thought was born, and then it spread throughout the world primarily through the work of the french revolution...

    The democracy is born from atheist thinking...




    from people whose religion was much less developed, but similar to Hinduism, because of a common origin, parallel developments and Hindu influence around the Mediterranean.
    Religion much less developed?
    Have you never read the Orphics, or the Egyptian religious texts, or the Enuma Elish, etc.etc.?
    Now you have to explain this your statement: "Religion much less developed "

    I think it is not a coincidence that India is a democracy, and that Pakistan is not,
    A coincidence? in this age of kali the muslims have a greater faith in their asuric religion ... and this thought is very sad...not a coincidence: we are in the age of kali, and the Laws of the Gods have been replaced by the opinions of men...

    Tyrannos

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by
    [LEFT
    Have you never read the Orphics, or the Egyptian religious texts, or the Enuma Elish, etc.etc.?
    Now you have to explain this your statement: "Religion much less developed " [/LEFT]
    Buongiorno Tyrannos!

    Im sorry; I must have missed the latest paperback editions. Could you please read them for me and tell me whats in them? When youre ready, you may convince me that the Hindu civilisation was not in every respect light years ahead of the West, as it still is when it comes to e.g. traditions and methods regarding the realisation of the self or the connection of man with God.

    If you convince me, there will be a problem: where are those ancient religions and civilisations that did not survive Christianity now? They will offer me no living guru or ongoing practice; they have no forum on the internet. If you wanted to suggest Christianity is even worse a threat for other tranditions than we realise, as it destroyed those great religions: this could be good to know, fine! Perhaps someone on this forum is also interested in being reminded that Christian missionaries should not pride themselves on certain achievements of Western culture. In that case, we may both have contributed positively to the discussion. If not, Im sorry.

    Ciao.

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotam View Post
    Im sorry; I must have missed the latest paperback editions. Could you please read them for me and tell me whats in them? When youre ready, you may convince me that the Hindu civilisation was not in every respect light years ahead of the West, as it still is when it comes to e.g. traditions and methods regarding the realisation of the self or the connection of man with God..
    You can begin reading my posts regarding the Ancient Egyptian Religion...

    If you convince me, there will be a problem: where are those ancient religions and civilisations that did not survive Christianity now? They will offer me no living guru or ongoing practice; they have no forum on the internet.
    our ancestors are all dead or reborn or in the company of the Gods.
    But everything return later also in a changed form. It's the sacred dance of KAla. Life and Death: the same.


    Tyrannos

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste Gotam.

    I am surprised that you have dug up a two year old post of mine to comment on it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotam View Post
    do you mean that the degree of realisation that is possible in Christianity would be welcomed as a contribution to Sanatana Dharma if Christians gave up their exclusiveness? Judging from the changing mentality in Europe, I think such scenarios have become less unthinkable than they used to be, and many "Christians" may one day see their religion as a limited subset of the eternal dharma.
    There is a proverb in Tamil that says, 'If your aunt grows whiskers then she would be your uncle!' Anyway, let us try to see what Christianity has in common with Hinduism to be its 'limited subset' as you have put it.

    Sri Krishna chalks out for us three paths to Self-Realization: karma, bhakti and jnAna yogas. Surely, Christianity has the provisions for the first two paths but lacks any of it for the third (and this IMO is due to the lack of independent inquiry in that religion).

    • If Christianity gives up its exclusivity and accepts peaceful coexistence with other religions, then undoubtedly, the services it provides in the health and education sectors would amount to the highest forms of karma yoga! Hindus would welcome it and learn from their experiences. It is only the attitude and hidden agenda of conversion that lurks behind the Christian missionary services that taints its efforts.

    How nice would it be if the Christian schools allow their Hindu children to wear the tilak, have their religion taught to them and do not subject them to such disgusting tactics of conversion as taking the innocent Hindu children on a tour in a bus, asking the driver to stop in a vacant area, scare the children that something is wrong, ask them to pray to their Hindu gods, let them 'see' that nothing happens and then ask them to pray to Jesus--and presto, the bus starts right away!

    • If Christianity gives up its exclusivity of Jesus, accepts His peaceful coexistence with the Hindu Gods, stop distributing pamphlets reviling Hindu Gods even while adopting the Hindu methods of worship in their churches; and the Christian religious leaders make regular visits to the ashrams of celebrated Hindu gurus for satsang, then that religion would certainly be accommodated by the Hindus as they accommodate the other Indian religions!

    • But then Christianity, even if it gives up its exclusivity of Jesus and His Priest as the only link to Him, has not much to teach in the path of jnAna yoga. It is not enough to say that God is one, that Jesus is God and that the Priest is Messenger. The path to Self-Realization by jnAna yoga starts with the recognition of divinity in all the beings that God has created: thus the common man has the same divinity of the Father as the Priest or even Jesus; that the animals, birds and fish too have such divinity; and that God is not apart from His creation but is immanent in it.

    With such recognition of divinity in God's creations, people should be taught the ways and means to realize the divinity of the Self in every human being. Despite all the different names and varieties we see in the yoga systems taught by the various Hindu institutions, they are all based on Patanjali's eight-limbed yoga system. Since Christianity has no such equivalent provisions of sAdhana, Hindus would gladly impart that knowledge to the Christian notables and commons.

    Christianity 'losing' its exclusivity is however, only a wishful thinking for now. I am only reminded of Christina Rossetti's beautiful poem below:

    Boats sail on the rivers,
    And ships sail on the seas;
    But clouds that sail across the sky
    Are prettier far than these.

    There are bridges on the rivers,
    As pretty as you please;
    But the bow that bridges heaven,
    And overtops the trees,
    And builds a road from earth to sky,
    Is prettier far than these.

    The Abrahamic religions giving up their exclusivity and seeking peaceful coexistence, for now is not even a rainbow on the sky that is seen by everyone at least for sometime. It is a rainbow that appears in dream when we sleep with such wishful thinking.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Namaste Saidevo,

    thank you for your beautiful and detailed answer. In fact, if you are right, and Christianity cannot grow the whiskers that would raise the question of it needing a new name, or at least a different one, one that fits a tolerant, open-minded religion, then it is almost a pity you go to such lengths explaining in which fields Christianity could "improve itself". And you are right: the Abrahamic religions (here in continental Europe we say "semitic religions", which is not really a better term) will not transform themselves into something less exclusive, nor will, in the case of Christianity, most churches. But when Christians leave their religion, and they do not become very reluctant to have anything to do with "another of those religions" and become agnostics forever, they are usually attracted by traditions that are of Hindu origin (often Yoga or Buddhism). In the second case, they may develop an attitude in life that is compatible with Hinduism or could belong to it, but recycle part of their Christianity, finding a deeper meaning in it than they did as Christians. If one day these people are the only survivors of Christianity, will they be called Christians, in spite of having a dharmic religion?

    Discovering, partly thanks to you, how missionaries in India behave, has convinced me that the clergys modesty in Europe is due to their having no more impact here. If their power was not broken, my country of origin (Northern Belgium) would again be what I called it when I was young: a colony of the Vatican.

    But it is also true that many priests I know have become more open-minded, and some have even given up their Christian faith.

    I think Indian Christians wiil be as dissatisfied about Christianity as Europeans one day, and will then return to Sanatana Dharma, but it is a real pity they should first have to leave it and then be almost as handicapped as we Westerners are when we want to find our way in it.

    Om Shantih.

    I

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