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Thread: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

  1. #81

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Harjas Kaur ji,

    Le me tell you at the outset i don't intend to be disrespectful to you and if i come across as rude pls accept my apologies.

    I do have some what indepth understanding of the Abrahamic religions and their actual practice and hence i beleive i am in a better position relatively in countering your views.

    First of all, I live in the United States. So I am familiar with the many different sects of Christianity..


    I had never been to US but i have friends living in the Bible belt and from their experience i can tell that the tolerance of the people there is much better than some of the christians living in Indian places like Assam and kerala.. The tolerance of these people has nothing to do with the 'core principles" of christianity.

    This is why I pointed out, respectfully to you, that although Judaism is indeed Abrahamic, I know for a fact that missionary conversion is against their teachings.


    I already pointed out this in my earlier post.The jews wrote in their books(Noahide laws) that "non jews" can achieve salvation in principle without converting to Judaism.

    But the christian view is entirely exclusivist.I am not saying this ;It is the vatican that says this.

    statement of Pope Benedicthttp://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...munica_en.html)

    In our days, when in vast areas of the world the faith is in danger of dying out like a flame which no longer has fuel, the overriding priority is to make God present in this world and to show men and women the way to God. Not just any god, but the God who spoke on Sinai.

    More details (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P7E.HTM)


    So you err by over-generalizing ALL Abrahamic faiths as being one and the same thing, out to convert and destroy other cultures.


    Over generalizing people is wrong.But i stick to my original assertion that for these faiths(excluding Judaism) converting other faiths to their own is in their "core teachings".we can have a seperate debate on this.

    My concern with this thread is that Hindus (I am a Hindu-Sikh) are in danger of veering into an equal extreme in response to this menace. What will people gain if they lose Dharma trying to protect Dharma? So, from that perspective I think a reasoned balance is required.


    I agree with you on this.But i find it difficult to Understand your objections to the article posted by Ohmshivaya.the article is well written and accurate.

    To demonize a religion (Sikhs are familiar with this)...


    How can any Hindu demonize Sikhism
    ?, when it was born out of necessity and actually saved Hinduism from jihadis in parts of Punjab.

    Thanks to the legendary
    KPS Gill the ghosts of khalistan are buried.

    Where will your path lead if genocide is the predictable result of ostracizing and demonizing anybody?


    Objective criticism make people aware and the chances of people falling prey to these hatefull ideologies will considerably reduce.

  2. #82

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    On the question of caste(dalits) discrimantion none of the faiths are immune to this problem.

    A few links mentioned below will break the myth that casteism is unique to hinduism.

    http://www.dalitchristians.com/Html/CRI.htm
    http://arya-shakti-dal.blogspot.com/...to-return.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_s..._Asian_Muslims

  3. #83

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    I don't consider your queries as being disrespectful in any way. And the truth is I already agree with most of your positions. But there is a certain trend in this viewpoint that I believe leads to a reverse form of exclusivism. And the reason for my belief is my experience with Khalistanis.

    How can any Hindu demonize Sikhism ?, when it was born out of necessity and actually saved Hinduism from jihadis in parts of Punjab.

    Thanks to the legendary KPS Gill the ghosts of khalistan are buried.

    Actually, KPS Gill is a convicted rapist. He committed unspeakable atrocities against Sikhs through terrific abuses of police power in the Punjab which are directly responsible for the continued support for militancy to this day. And this is exactly the kind of reverse fanaticism I'm speaking about.

    Wanting to crush the militancy, he went far beyond the bounds of Dharma and actually ordered gang-rapes of mothers, sisters, wives and daughters, including 12 year old girls who were families of suspected (never had a day in court) militants. He is responsible for ordering tortures, not only against suspected militants, but of their family members.

    I can assure you, the people who support Pakistan and China against India today were profoundly traumatized by police "overreaction." And this is why I beg you all to stay within the bounds of Dharma. You may not realize how easy it is to begin intellectually justifying what amount to crimes against a hated "other."


    Some things beg the question of "who is a militant?"
    When police begin to target even young children for murder because of suspected associations of their family members, we have a genocide of a hated group.

    If KPS Gill is responsible for these mass murders and mass rapes and mass tortures, he will answer to the Jamdhoot. It's legendary all right. Sad to tell you but the ghosts of Khalistan are far from dead, he made sure of that. The militants now actively work with jihadis in Pakistan. The actions of Punjab Police only created hatreds which will last generations. Following this path, India will destroy itself.

    This is exactly what we should NOT support.

    You should listen to the man who KPS Gill abducted, tortured and killed in order to silence his petition to the High Court to expose the mass cremations and genocides of Amritdhari Sikhs in Punjab.
    Jaswant Singh Khalra's Last International Speech
    On September 6, 1995, the Punjab police abducted, tortured, and murdered human rights defender Jaswant Singh Khalra because he exposed the disappearances and killings of thousands of Sikhs by the Punjab police. In his last speech made to a Canadian audience, released with subtitles by Ensaaf (www.ensaaf.org), Jaswant Singh Khalra discusses his investigations into the disappearances and his readiness to die to expose the truth about these crimes. This video includes clips from his speech made at Dixie Gurdwara (Sikh house of worship) in Toronto, Canada in April 1995, at a conference organized by the radio station Ankhila Punjab. Khalra pinpoints KPS Gill, then Director General of Punjab police, as the person in charge of the systematic abuses perpetrated by the Punjab police, and discusses the standard responses made by Gill to cover-up the mass secret cremations. Khalra further describes his struggle before the Punjab and Haryana High Court for accountability for these mass state crimes.
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...86376112784432
    "Thousands of people were killed between 1984 and 1994 as a result of the Sikh separatist insurgency in the Indian state of Punjab. "The decade-long police crackdown of [sic] the insurgency…led to the deaths of at least 40,000 people in Punjab" (CCDP Jun 2003), including 10,000 civilians (AI 20 Jan 2003). Combatants on both sides of the conflict committed grave human rights abuses (AI 20 Jan 2003).


    According to Human Rights Watch:
    "Police counter-insurgency efforts included torture, forced disappearances, and a bounty system of cash rewards for the summary execution of suspected Sikh militants. The campaign succeeded in eliminating most of the major militant groups, and by early 1993, the government claimed that normalcy had returned to the state. Police abuses continued, however, and there was no effort to account for hundreds of forced disappearances and summary killings. Even though the identity of the perpetrators is well documented, no one has been successfully prosecuted by the state" (HRW 10 Jun 2003)...

    Meanwhile, witnesses to the 1995 killing of human rights lawyer Jaswant Singh Khalra, the last activist killed in Punjab, have also had false criminal charges filed against them, apparently to discourage them from testifying. And activists working on the case reportedly have been intimidated or otherwise harassed, Amnesty International says, citing a series of incidents in 1998 (AI 20 Jan 2003; AI 1 Apr 1998). Khalra disappeared in police custody while investigating alleged mass cremations by police, during the insurgency, of the bodies of militants who had disappeared (CCDP Jun 2003). Nine police officials were on trial for Khalra's killing as of early 2003 (AI 20 Jan 2003; AI 1 Apr 1998).


    Another activist who has felt the ire of Punjab authorities is Vineeta Gupta, a medical doctor who was illegally detained and had her private clinic raided in 2001, apparently because of her opposition to the closure of a hospital (AI 20 Jan 2003). Dr. Gupta, who now heads the non-profit Insaaf International, resigned as a medical officer in the Punjab health service in the late 1990s after facing years of official harassment for her criticism of alleged corruption in the service and efforts to secure the removal of torture devices from Punjab police stations (AI 26 Apr 2000).


    In addition to targeting activists and eyewitnesses, Punjab police reportedly have also harassed family members who are seeking justice for relatives who disappeared or were killed in police custody during the Sikh insurgency. The family members "routinely received threats of 'dire consequences' and sometimes get implicated in false criminal cases," a prominent Indian human rights lawyer said in a 2002 e-mail to the Resource Information Center (RIC) (Indian human rights lawyer 31 Jul 2002)." http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/countr...e0dd804,0.html
    We can't glorify genocide of an opposition and delude ourselves into thinking it's correct and Dharmic way to deal with those we believe are "enemies." We have to evolve more spiritual maturity and intelligence than this. Otherwise, "we" become the asuras.

    Dharma has to be the voice and force of justice, not political rhetoric or propaganda which demonizes the innocent along with the guilty. And we need to support those proper systems of justice which are fair and ethical. Torture devices are an obscene evil and have no business in police stations. When did police become judge, jury and executioners? In what kind of justice system? And someone dares to call it "Hindu?" "Dharmic?"

    It slanders the terms.



    KPS Gill, the "legendary."


    Jaswant Singh Khalra, the martyr.
    The Cremation Grounds

    "In 1994 Jaswant Singh Khalra and Jaspal Singh Dhillon of the Human Rights Wing of the Akali Dal 1 (HRW) set out to investigate what had happened to Punjab’s 'disappeared'. Acting on information that police regularly brought bodies to municipal cremation grounds as ‘unclaimed’, they began to search cremation ground records and found that records of bodies brought in by police remained in the receipt books recording the firewood issued for each cremation. Khalra and Dhillon discovered that in just three cremation grounds, within a single district, 3,000 bodies had been cremated as unclaimed or unidentified by police between 1984 and 1994. As it is now known that over 50 cremation grounds across Punjab were regularly used by police to dispose of bodies, even a conservative application of these figures to other grounds means that the estimated number of those cremated by police as ‘unclaimed’ across Punjab could help account for the tens of thousands of people who disappeared in the conflict.

    The HRW investigation revealed that police regularly cremated as ‘unclaimed’ the bodies of those who were executed in custody or had died as a result of torture, without informing their families, as a way of concealing police responsibility for these deaths. In fact, far from being ‘unclaimed' or 'unidentified', many of those cremated were actually named in the cremation ground records, and were recorded as having died of bullet wounds or other forms of violence. These police practices were in absolute contradiction of the law, which states that a magistrate must conduct an inquiry into any custodial death, and inform relatives of the deceased who have a right to attend such inquiries,2 and that officers must take all “reasonable steps to secure…identification” of unidentified bodies.3 Khalra and Dhillon had found evidence of appalling police excesses."
    http://www.witness84.com/cremation/

    "When the police do not obey the law. Then there is no law."

  4. #84

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    I don't consider your queries as being disrespectful in any way.


    I thought you didnt like the tone of my post from what you said before..

    And the truth is I already agree with most of your positions.
    .

    Good,

    Can you explore solutions to this problem. any ideas?

    And the reason for my belief is my experience with Khalistanis.....
    we will discuss about khalistan and K.p.s. Gill and his rein on some other day.

    I beleive there are no parallels to be drawn.Sikhism does'nt say that non-sikhs get tortured in hell for eternity, also there is no inbuilt hatred in Sikhism against other faiths.



  5. #85

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    I thought you didnt like the tone of my post from what you said before..
    What did I say before?

    Can you explore solutions to this problem. any ideas?

    Social justice. Institutional reforms. Defense of human rights and human dignity. Giving dasvandh to those communities which really need it. When society addresses these kinds of internal problems, then you won't have mass uprisings of conversions among the Dalits and the tribals.

    Even Ambedkar Ji converted to Buddhism. Why?
    Bant Singh can still sing
    Bant Singh is a revolutionary singer in Punjab, India, whose 2 years old daughter was raped by upper caste men. When he sought justice, they cut of his limbs. But he can still sing, and in this video letter he expresses no self-pity.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxSdru59NVs
    When there is an open wound it is prone to infection.

    we will discuss about khalistan and K.p.s. Gill and his rein on some other day.
    No we won't, because there's nothing to discuss. Oppression is the cause of militancy and the rejection of Indian National Unity and Hindu religion in aggrieved populations. Greater oppression against converts or militant's families cannot possibly be a solution.

    Social justice, education, promotion of national unity and human dignity. That is the solution. Society has to stop outcasting people and it won't have "outcasts, militants, and converts" who raise rifles and slogans against it and who join hands with it's enemies.

    "The defeat of the Sikh separatists and the subsequent return to prosperity in Punjab, with a population of more than 20 million, earned Mr. Gill the sobriquet of ''super cop'' from India's popular press. But human-rights organizations here and abroad, as well as families of slain Sikh militants, have continued to demand action against Mr. Gill for his involvement in a well-chronicled campaign of police brutality that is said to have included the torture and summary killing of hundreds, and possibly thousands, of Sikh separatists and members of their families.


    Because the Indian Government is considered unlikely to heed the demands for action against Mr. Gill for his actions during the insurgency, which posed one of the most serious threats to India's stability since independence nearly 50 years ago, his conviction under a section of the criminal code for ''outraging the modesty'' of the woman at the party has been welcomed by some in Punjab as a small measure of justice." http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/12/wo...-in-india.html

    From the Khalra collection



    KPS Gill is hated among Sikhs as an indiscriminate mass murderer. I'm sorry you didn't know that. He has done more to damage Hindu-Sikh relations than Indira Gandhi, if that be possible.
    I beleive there are no parallels to be drawn.Sikhism does'nt say that non-sikhs get tortured in hell for eternity, also there is no inbuilt hatred in Sikhism against other faiths.
    Why does it bother you so much what foolish people believe? You think a hell could be any worse then a jail in Punjab during the militancy days?



    There is justice in the universe. And there are hellish realms equating to the hellish states of consciousness extremely disturbed and evil people find themselves when they leave the body which are products of their own minds. Perhaps the belief in eternity of these states has to do with the timelessness of other dimensions.

    The parallel I sought to evoke was not one of beliefs in the afterlife, but to precipitant causes in the present life.


    Until society can honestly address the grievances, aggrieved groups will continue to attract the neferious exploitation of India's enemies.

    Objective criticism make people aware and the chances of people falling prey to these hatefull ideologies will considerably reduce.
    This is blaming the wrong things and will come to a faulty conclusion. There are a lot of hateful things which are the causes besides "ideologies." Do you think desperately poor people will turn down offers of money, education, medical clinics, housing, and visas? Do you think illiterate families really care about some definition of hell when their son gets a promise of admission to a Christian medical school?


    It might be wise to do what Jewish communities have done and prepare information for communities to use to counter missionary propaganda. But you don't have to demonize their religion to do it. Let their actions speak for themselves. You don't have to speak against religion the way they speak against religion.

    And one last thought. How many Hindu kids actually know that much about their own religion? If they don't know much, they can't defend anything.

  6. #86

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    What did I say before?

    May be i have misread your post 78 : This is why I pointed out, respectfully to you,

    Social justice. Institutional reforms. Defense of human rights and human dignity. Giving dasvandh to those communities which really need it. When society addresses these kinds of internal problems, then you won't have mass uprisings of conversions among the Dalits and the tribals.


    I have no problem with hindus converting to other religions as long as it is their choice.Many hindus including me would not bother much about such conversions.

    Even Ambedkar Ji converted to Buddhism. Why?



    I respect Ambedkar or for that matter anybody's right to convert.Hinduism doesnt recommend killing apostates.

    Social justice. Institutional reforms. Defense of human rights and human dignity. Giving dasvandh to those communities which really need it. When society addresses these kinds of internal problems,


    That is good and needs to be done whether there are missionaries are not.

    It is laughable that these christians talk about castesim when their bible speaks about owning slaves.
    Greater oppression against converts or militant's families cannot possibly be a solution.


    I dont think anybody recommended any such measure on this forum


    This thread is about "Onslaught of Adharmic Religions"

    Shall we stay focussed.






    Last edited by chandu_69; 07 October 2009 at 08:37 AM.

  7. #87

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Getting to the actual subject:

    Why does it bother you so much what foolish people believe?


    I have quoted Pope and vatican's official statements regarding their contempt for other religions.Here is the link to my post(http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...&postcount=81).

    It bothers me because these missionaries spread lies about hinduism(and sikh religion, btw) ainstill hatred against hinduism and make enemies to the society in general.


    It might be wise to do what Jewish communities have done and prepare information for communities to use to counter missionary propaganda


    yes, Counter the propoganda.After all the distractions we got to some sort of actionable discussions.

    But you don't have to demonize their religion to do it. Let their actions speak for themselves. You don't have to speak against religion the way they speak against religion.


    Why not?.if the teachings are demonic let that be exposed.

    speak in the language which the attacker understands.






    How many Hindu kids actually know that much about their own religion? If they don't know much, they can't defend anything.


    You hit the nail on the head.Ignorance is a big problem.



  8. #88

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    Shian raised the issue of propoganda by missionaries in the thread http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4331

    I briefly touched upon the subject of counter propoganda.

    Kaurji, pls go through the thread.

  9. #89

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    I have no problem with hindus converting to other religions as long as it is their choice.Many hindus including me would not bother much about such conversions.

    Quote:
    Even Ambedkar Ji converted to Buddhism. Why?


    I respect Ambedkar or for that matter anybody's right to convert.Hinduism doesnt recommend killing apostates.

    This point was not made to illustrate the right of people to convert but to explore the causes for why people convert. As you had asked:

    Can you explore solutions to this problem. any ideas?
    So regardless of whether you respect him, why did Ambedkar convert? You did not answer the painful internal problem of social injustice. And instead simply made a cross comparison that Hindu's don't recommend killing apostates. And this is a weak answer, because modernly no Christian sects do either. And this is what I'm talking about this line of argument is creating a "straw man fallacy"
    "The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented." www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html
    So to prove these points the argument is relying on distortions of modern-day Christian teaching. And believe me, I'm no Christian apologist. It's just that the distortions are not factual. And hence the entire thesis becomes unbelievable. And it is clearly a propaganda piece designed to elicit agitation in an audience.

    And to what purpose? Against all Christians in general?

    Because the line of argumentation strikes at their fundamental beliefs to invalidate their scriptures and does not directly address the missionary factor which has long been manipulated by colonial governments as a point of "interpretation." But rather than looking at these elements, your Swami Devananda Ji is attacking Hindu's who dare to interpret Christian scriptures in a non-hostile way as being "ignorant."

    So there is already an overlooked factor here. The factor of deliberate mis-interpretation by foreign colonial powers to use religion as a weapon of cultural suppression and subjugation.

    And this is entirely independent from Christian religious teachings.
    It bothers me because these missionaries spread lies about hinduism(and sikh religion, btw) ainstill hatred against hinduism and make enemies to the society in general.
    And my point was, in analyzing causes for mass conversions we have to look deeply at hatred instilled against the powers that be, which includes the central government of India as well as the authority of Hindu religion as being blamed by the disenfranchised, the discriminated, the neglected and the poor.

    So these are social causes of malcontent that have nothing to do with issues like "freedom to convert" or "malicious bad intent of foreign governments funding missionaries" or even "ignorance in Christian doctrine."
    yes, Counter the propoganda.After all the distractions we got to some sort of actionable discussions.
    If you think analyzing the corruption and brutality of the Indian government itself or the alienation of entire groups within it's population are not a prime factor in the conversion scenario, and are only some unrelated "distraction" then it's further proof that this thesis is biased to create scapegoats of blame rather than addressing actual underlying causes.

    Quote:
    But you don't have to demonize their religion to do it. Let their actions speak for themselves. You don't have to speak against religion the way they speak against religion.
    Why not?.if the teachings are demonic let that be exposed.
    speak in the language which the attacker understands.
    Why are you not speaking against the demonic injustices and corruptions which allowed an environment for the missionaries to thrive in the first place? How can it only be someone else's "demons" yet we fail to look at our own?

    If you want to attack the attacker then speak to social justice and need for reform. They do! And that's why they're winning.



    Quote:
    Social justice. Institutional reforms. Defense of human rights and human dignity. Giving dasvandh to those communities which really need it. When society addresses these kinds of internal problems,
    That is good and needs to be done whether there are missionaries are not.

    It is laughable that these christians talk about castesim when their bible speaks about owning slaves.

    It's not laughable. It's pathetically sad. But their scriptures were written 2 thousand years ago, and I respect that Western society has itself evolved beautifully out of the slave owning era and so have their modern religious teachings. So again this is just a straw man which has nothing to do with anything.

    The problem of casteism is directly related to the racist colonialism of British as well as the hatred of Hinduism of the Mughal dynasties. Casteism in it's current form is an oppression fundamentally opposed to the original intent of the Vedas, Shastras and Puranas. So it is not "Hindu" teaching. It is reinterpretation of Hindu teaching by corrupted powers. Education will clearly point this out without need to resort to unbelievable counter assertions such as "Christianity teaches you can own slaves." When everybody knows it doesn't. Maybe 2 thousand years ago. Maybe 250 years ago. But not today. When the missionaries are attacking casteism, they are attacking injustices of today. That is why they are listened to. Dharmic people should also be loudly addressing the social injustices of casteism so it is clear we aren't approving or tolerant of it. Our silence to speak on behalf of the oppressed is why they are finding another voice to speak on their behalf. So it is our failing. And it is our responsibility to make an outreach to the disenfranchised Hindu people worldwide and those most especially neglected and vulnerable to foreign exploitation.

    if the teachings are demonic let that be exposed.
    speak in the language which the attacker understands.

    I wanted to go back to this veer ji. Do you know how Guru Gobind Singh Ji spoke to Aurangzeb?

    He told the chilling clear truth in love.

    He did not insult. He did not degrade. He did not malign the Muslim religion. He chastised Aurangzeb for cruelty and misconduct as going against the precepts of his own religion.
    Read the Zafarnama sometime.

    And do you know what was the result? Aurangzeb repented. He repented the slaughter of the Guru's family and children.
    "The letter reads like a reprimand by a superior personality on a higher plane to a cruel and distorted inhuman being on a lower and pitiful plane. Guru Ji in the 111 verses of this notice rebukes Aurangzeb for his weaknesses as a human being and for excesses as a leader. Guru Ji confirms his confidence and his unflinching faith in the Almighty even after suffering extreme personal loss...


    Though parts of the letter are an indictment of Aurangzebparts of the letter are like one from an older wiser veer (brave or valiant brother) more in touch with the part of the jyot of God in his heart, who though terribly wronged on one plane, is asking his lost veer, who he sees as having lost touch with the promise of his own religion and its Holy Koran, to return to the fold of brotherly love and make things right between them again. Amazingly 6 verses actually praise Aurangzeb...


    Aurangzeb's realisation
    The Emperors peace of mind had been shaken, he wrote another letter to his sons in which he states "I do not know who I am, where I am, where I am to go and what will happen to a sinful person like me. Many like me have passed away wasting their lives. Allah was in my heart but my blind eyes failed to see him. I do not know how I will be received in Allah's court. I do not have any hope for my future, I have committed many sins and do not know what punishments will be awarded to me in return".


    The Zafarnama had a demoralising effect on Emperor Aurangzeb who saw his end looming over the horizon and his future appeared very bleak. He saw Guru Gobind Singh Ji as his only hope who could show him the right and truthful path, as hinted by Guru ji in his epistle. Although he had greatly wronged the Guru he knew him to be a man of God and wanted to meet with the Guru personally to seek redemption." http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Zafarnama
    Dharma is not about falling from a higher plane into a lower one to behave just like someone on a lower plane. Dharma is about rising. It is the spiritual responsibility to lift oneself up and to be an uplifting example for others. Dharma is about lifting others up through right actions, right speech, right intention, right goals.
    Greater oppression against converts or militant's families cannot possibly be a solution.

    I dont think anybody recommended any such measure on this forum



    This thread is about "Onslaught of Adharmic Religions"
    Shall we stay focussed.

    When you praised KPS Gill's results against the militancy, you also praised his methods. The focus is crystal clear.

    We should not sink to the level of Adharma to achieve political success or we are no different then Aurangzeb.


    And moreover, we need to evaluate and properly address the root causes behind why the Christian missionaries are gaining a foothold among disenfranchised populations. If we work toward social justice and institutional reform as a goal, we have the power to make Dharma shine bright as more than empty words and false promises.

    And that means not praising or ignoring evil at work in our own society. At least we would have their respect if we could acknowledge wrongdoing for what it is and stop justifying perpetrators all the time.

    Would Ambedkar Ji have ever left Hindu religion if he felt he could work within the existing social structures to initiate powerful reforms for social justice? He left Hinduism ashamed that the entrenched political and social corruptions prevented reform.

    They are still preventing reform.

    THIS is what we need to address to stop the onslaught of adharmic philosophies, religions and movements. No one would listen to those other voices if only we could live Dharmically and represent in our society what Dharma really means.

    ਕਮਾਲਿ ਕਰਾਮਾਤ ਕਾਯਮ ਕਰੀਮ ॥ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੋ ਰਾਜ਼ਿਕ ਰਿਹਾਕੁਨ ਰਹੀਮ ॥੧॥
    KAMAAL-E KARAAMAT QAA-YEM KAREEM, RAZA BAKSH RAZAQ RAHAAQ-O RAHIM (1)
    Waheguru is perfection personified. He is eternal and through His miracles He shows His presence. He is generous in granting us His bounties. He is compassionate and merciful.

    ਅਮਾਂ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਿੰਦਹ ਓ ਦਸਤਗੀਰ ॥ ਖ਼ਤਾ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ ਰੋਜ਼ੀ ਦਿਹੋ ਦਿਲ ਪਜ਼ੀਰ ॥੨॥
    AMAAN BAKSH BAKSHINDEH-O DASTGIR, KHATAA BAKSH ROZI DEH-O DILPAZIR (2)
    He grants us the peace and security and is always merciful in forgiving us for our sins. He holds our hand and guides us (in this world). He is provider of our sustenance and charms everyone.

    ~From the Zafarnama sent by Sacha Patshah Guru Gobind Singh Ji to Emperor Aurangzeb
    Now there is no pacifism here. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was willling to fight to the death against injustice. But He Himself was never unjust and never let slip an opportunity to promote peace, reconciliation and understanding. He was ever Guru. The light that shines in darkness.

    This is Dharma. This should be our platform and perspective, not demonizing or outrageously distorting other faiths to make them hated. Point out wrong actions. Confront and stop wrong-doing. But don't become the hateful enemy.
    Last edited by Harjas Kaur; 07 October 2009 at 04:38 PM.

  10. #90

    Re: Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions

    When you praised KPS Gill's results against the militancy, you also praised his methods. The focus is crystal clear.


    I think this thread was derailed to such an extent that it is no longer possible to stay focussed.I mentioned in passing, Thanks to gill the days of Khalistan were gone.This was in response to your mention of the subject of khalistan.

    It is entirely unrelated to the subject at hand.

    I asked
    Can you explore solutions to this problem. any ideas?

    To which you responded

    By focussing on casteism.The caste thing is more complex than you think.There were many discussions on this subject here.

    I have already mentioned caste is not the tool which christian missionaries use nowadays.

    The Mainstay of the christian missionaries tactics is fraud.it is this fraud that has to be exposed.

    It appears you cannot come out of the fixation with Punjab politics and trying to view the problem with that perspective in mind.

    In this thread I would only discuss matters relating to missionary activities.





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