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Thread: Anger crisis with Jesus

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    Anger crisis with Jesus

    Anger crisis with Jesus



    BG 7.56 The sage, whose mind remains unperturbed in sorrows, whose thirst for pleasures has altogether disappeared, and who is free from passion, fear and anger, is called stable of mind.


    BG 2.63 From anger arises infatuation; from infatuation, confusion of memory; from confusion of memory, loss of reason; and from loss of reason one goes to complete ruin.
    Control of anger is very important, not only in civil life but for spiritual pursuit too.

    Cursing the fig tree.

    Every fruit or flower is seasonal. If they don't ripen till their appropriate season, it is a sheer instability of mind to get cut up if you don't get them out of season. It would be sign of instability of mind to actually CURSE at the tree for just doing what nature is directing it to do, especially if you're the supposed Lord of mother nature itself. But in that case, you would actually make it laden with fruit and flowers.

    In Galatians 5:12, got so angry at anyone advocating circumcision that he wished they'd maybe slip with their knives in the ceremony and cut off more than just the foreskin! An apt follower of a an angry prophet.

    Rampage in the temple.

    Jesus got pissed off to the point of beating and driving pilgrims out of the temple. He whipped them and overthrowing their business desks of the service providers (Gospel of John, 2: 14-17). Imagine if someone today were to walk into your church, pull out a bullwhip, and start whipping each and everybody, sparing not even the little ones and throwing all the furniture around, screaming and shouting about this not being your house. He'd be locked up for assault and battery and be forced to attend several months of Anger Management clinic!

    Only had JC got someone to teach him preserve equanimity and mental balance. Only had someone taught him to rein in his unreasonable desires.
    Last edited by rcscwc; 13 February 2010 at 04:39 AM.

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    namaskar,

    Quote Originally Posted by rcscwc View Post
    Only had JC got someone to teach him preserve equanimity and mental balance. Only had someone taught him to rein in his unreasonable desires.
    This is why I don't get when some swamis say that jesus is son of krishna or is krishna or is god etc. etc. Not sure why we must even entertain the idea of accepting junk from barbaric alien cults and insert it into vedantic worldview.
    satay

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Hi Rcscwc. I think at least two out of your three examples are indeed instances of anger. I just want to mention what the Christian perspective would be on the first one, not because I have any desire to defend Christianity, but because our arguments against Christianity have to be as airtight as possible. They've got some smart theologians who will pick apart any anti-Biblical argument over even the slightest fallacy, and we want to avoid this.

    As far as the fig tree goes, the cursing of it actually carries some symbolic meaning. The fig tree represents the nation of Israel. Israel is likened to a tree because like the tree, it started out as a small seedling, the patriarch Abraham. Over time it blossomed into a large tree, which corresponds to the entire nation in Jesus' time. But just when the tree is about to bloom, Jesus cursed it to death. This symbolizes that when Israel consists of a vast number of people, God will curse them for not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. This corresponds to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So a Christian will tell you that Jesus cursed the fig tree to teach his disciples not to disbelieve like the rest of the Jews, but to believe in him.

    As to your other two examples, yes, I think these are basically examples of anger. Christians would say that it's "righteous anger." Granted, Jesus at least was angry because people were conducting disreputable business in God's temple. It would be sort of like a bunch of people dealing drugs in a Hindu temple. I don't know the extent of Jesus' anger and violence. Personally I do consider him to be an incarnation of God, intended for Westerners. Paul's outburst, on the other hand, does indeed seem truly unwarranted. I will say unequivocally that I don't think it's ever OK to harm people in the name of any religion. Christianity has a long history of violence, and I think this is because the Christian religion doesn't place any emphasis on non-violence.

  4. #4

    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Namaste all.
    This is how I interpret it. Both stories of Jesus carries a lot of meaning. Christians often try to interpret these stories to justify Jesus as Messias or in relation to the history of the jews [kind of like Hare Krishna tries to make Vishnu supreme]. Personally I dont think thats the case very often. Its rather about spiritual laws and the inner path.

    Cursing the fig tree (effect of not doing ones duty)
    Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

    The tree is not doing its duty (sva-dharma) hence its cursed (bad karma). That goes for everyone.

    Cleansing the temple (temple can be both physical & the mind-complex)
    In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

    He was not driving out pilgrims! The temple (heart or physical) had been made into a worldly market (filled with desires). It was filled with money exchangers and business men (demons). The temple should not be such a place right? If Jesus would not have done it (live up to his words) he would certainly be fake in action.
    Was he angry? At least he appeared angry. Narasimha appeared angry to Hiranyakasipu but peaceful to Prahlada. By that we dont infer that Narasimha had an "unstable mind", do we?

    Yoga is not only "Stable of mind", it also means doing appropriate action.

    Evenness of mind [samatvaṃ] is called Yoga. (BhG 2.48)
    Yoga is skill in action [karmasu]. (BhG 2.50)

    Im not making christianity into hindusim... but Jesus can be understood if there is a wish.
    There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done. (sss20-15)

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Sanjay

    I am aware of these arguments. But anger is anger and has been condemned in BG. But here in the bible it is GLORIFIED!! Biblegod is angry and is always angry.

    Jeremiah 17:4
    Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.
    Malachi 1:4
    The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.


    Can you imagine Krishna doing such an act of anger? What would He do the said fig tree? He would make it bloom and be laden with fruits even out of season.

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Can you imagine Krishna doing such an act of anger? What would He do the said fig tree? He would make it bloom and be laden with fruits even out of season.
    No, but Indra might. Remember what He did when He saw the villagers giving His sacrifice to Govardhana Hill? 7 days of torrential rain over Vrindavan. And that was because He was angry.

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Vannakkam all:

    I could care less if Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, Indra, Gandhi, Hilary Clinton, or anyone else here on HDF gets or ever got angry. (or ever existed for that matter) There is only one person that is of concern for me re anger, and that is myself.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    namaste Ekanta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekanta View Post
    The tree is not doing its duty (sva-dharma) hence its cursed (bad karma). That goes for everyone.
    ...
    Im not making christianity into hindusim... but Jesus can be understood if there is a wish.
    Mark 11:13 adds "it was not the time for figs." So, was it the svadharma of the fig tree to bear fruits throughout the year? Was Jesus stupid not to know it? So, the explanation is symbolical but not in the Hindu way. The Christian explanation is on the lines: "This was an object lesson against the ostentatious religious exhibitionism of the Jewish leaders and the abominable absence of love and commitment to God." (http://freebiblecommentary.org/written_nt.htm)
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  9. #9

    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Namaste Saidevo...
    OK so its not season (different gospels... give different versions)

    But the meaning would still be kind of the same. It doesnt bear fruit = it doesnt follow the righteous path (dharma) which yealds fruit, aka:

    "This was an object lesson against the ostentatious religious exhibitionism of the Jewish leaders and the abominable absence of love and commitment to God."

    Let me ask you all here a few questions:

    Would you say there is no connection at all to "sanatana dharma"?
    Has there in the history of Bharat never been any cut down of a "fig tree"?
    Why this eternal anti-christianity propaganda? Do you think you will turn into christians if you give Jesus the slightest credit?
    Or is it because you are afraid the youth of India will convert to Christianity?
    Why this eternal "it has nothing to do with sanatana dharma"-propaganda?
    Why is there a christian forum at all? Is it just to bash christianity? If so I think its better to shut it down completely.
    Last edited by Ekanta; 13 February 2010 at 09:34 AM.
    There is a Guru in each of us. It is the Atma principle. It is the Eternal Witness functioning as Conscience in everyone. With this Conscience as guide, let all actions be done. (sss20-15)

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    namaste Ekanta.

    The answer to your questions is met with another simple set of questions:

    When Christians themselves are not prepared to think out of the box of their dogma, what does a Hindu gain by thinking about/interpreting/extrapolating their texts using Hindu religious concepts? Is it to try the impossible task of educating the Christian clergy and laity?

    Does the Hindu gain a better understanding of his own scriptures in the light of such interpretation of the Bible and Quran? Or is it just to reassure himself that religiously and spiritually a Hindu is on par with a follower of the Abrahamic religion at all levels, when the reverse is not true for them?

    Is such reassurance necessary because the overseas Hindu lives among majority Christians in order that the latter don't misunderstand his religion and make fun ot its concepts (which they anyway do)?

    When would a Hindu understand that his unnecessary adventure of extrapolation has the potential of misguiding his fellow Hindus, specially the young people living abroad and in India? I hope you noticed that HDF is a public forum and at any time the number of guests viewing the posts is about 10 times more than the members logging in. The google search with the text "hindu dharma forums" yields 91,500 links as of now.

    In my understanding, the Christianity forum is to show the Hindus the right perspective they need to have about that religion by a critical study of their concepts and dogma vis-a-vis those of Hinduism, and not to think the Hindu way about Christian scriptures and extrapolate them.

    Even if it is not that way, I would only prefer to do it that way, so far as my posts are concerned. In my stong opinion, if I want to compare some text in the Bible to some other text in the Hindu scriptures where I feel a similarity exists, I would of course post 'my suggestion' but at the same time indicate their official interpretation. If we can dig up our texts and theirs for a comparison, why not also dig up their official interpretation and post it, and indicate how inept it is where it is actually so, so that a novice Hindu reader who finds no time to read the Bible or his own Hindu texts, is not misguided.

    By imposing Hindu interpretations on Christian texts, we only misguide our fellow Hindus who tend to presume that our interpretation is the right one.

    There is no point in turning emotional. For that matter your statement: "It doesnt bear fruit = it doesnt follow the righteous path (dharma) which yealds fruit." is incorrect. The svadharma of a fig tree is to grow as destined for it and bear fruits only at the time it is due. It does not get any bad karma by not bearing fruits when it is not required of it, so there is no need to cut it or curse it, and thus your equation is wrong. Not that you don't know it, but that your over-enthusiasm for comparision overshoots it.

    SanAtana Dharma is of course eternal and pre-existed in some form in the very lands where the Abrahamic religions rule over today, but we as Hindus have got other pressing issues such as having a right perspective (which is the traditional one) about our religion vis-a-vis the other religions and groom our fellow Hindus to that perspective.
    Last edited by saidevo; 13 February 2010 at 09:39 AM.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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