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Thread: Anger crisis with Jesus

  1. #21
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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohini Shakti Devi View Post
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...0&postcount=13

    Let us know what you think. Is this an example of God getting angry?
    It appears that way to me although I had a little trouble reading the words of the comic.

    A non-violent God would appear to me contrary to natural reality. Or doesn't Hinduism believe that nature was created by God?

    My understanding is that as intelligent beings we should be able to manage our anger and overcome our natural tendencies.

    As enigmatic as the fig tree story is, it still does not reveal that Jesus was angry. I think that is presumed because He cursed it.

    On the other hand there are plenty of stories in the Bible of God getting angry and acting on that anger.

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Namaste,

    I am english, brought up as Church of England going to church nearly every sunday morning.
    Then we moved to west africa where I saw a more energetic christianity and also islam and african tribal religion.

    As a child my only spiritual realisation was that not all people are the same in some way which has nothing to do with race or professed religion. I saw good loving people and horrible people from every background but I could not understand why some people acted with such hatred and violence instead of love and support.

    I got involved with evangelical christianity in my teens but by 19 I was disillusioned and rejected it as false. I often thought about what had drawn me to it so strongly that I called myself a born again christian?

    For years I was passionately anti-christian and I loved nothing more than opportunities for debate and to ridicule them.

    For the past 25 years I continued to seek truth in the world hoping for a rational path to understand these questions. Much of my reading touched on religion and I realised that the bible is a mixture of history, myth, allegory and some spiritual truth which I attributed to humanity. Most of it was purely material and worldly and therefore full of falsity and delusion.

    I always said that christians made me angry because they hijack the concepts of love and forgiveness as their own when in reality it is in all peoples of all faiths and countries.

    Since I have become a Hindu it is quite funny how much truth I see in the bible, mostly from Jesus. I suspect he was a great soul but much of his words and accounts of his actions will have been twisted by Roman and wider european influences to produce what we now see as the bible.

    So (finally getting to the point!)the accounts of his anger do not ring true to me in light of his teaching on love, forgiveness etc.

    Many of the fundamental points he made which are harder to distort by 'story telling' are straight forward Hindu concepts.

    ie. "I am the way the truth and the light, no one can reach the father except through me"

    Before I was a Hindu I would say, how arrogant and foolish.

    Now I think he was a wise sage saying that he had received enlightenment about reality and oneness and that anyone could do this but only by making the same realisations.

    I try to see past the layers of delusion and see truth where ever it is.
    Last edited by rog; 27 April 2012 at 10:55 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by sanjaya View Post
    Hi Rcscwc. I think at least two out of your three examples are indeed instances of anger. I just want to mention what the Christian perspective would be on the first one, not because I have any desire to defend Christianity, but because our arguments against Christianity have to be as airtight as possible. They've got some smart theologians who will pick apart any anti-Biblical argument over even the slightest fallacy, and we want to avoid this.

    As far as the fig tree goes, the cursing of it actually carries some symbolic meaning. The fig tree represents the nation of Israel. Israel is likened to a tree because like the tree, it started out as a small seedling, the patriarch Abraham. Over time it blossomed into a large tree, which corresponds to the entire nation in Jesus' time. But just when the tree is about to bloom, Jesus cursed it to death. This symbolizes that when Israel consists of a vast number of people, God will curse them for not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. This corresponds to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So a Christian will tell you that Jesus cursed the fig tree to teach his disciples not to disbelieve like the rest of the Jews, but to believe in him.

    As to your other two examples, yes, I think these are basically examples of anger. Christians would say that it's "righteous anger." Granted, Jesus at least was angry because people were conducting disreputable business in God's temple. It would be sort of like a bunch of people dealing drugs in a Hindu temple. I don't know the extent of Jesus' anger and violence. Personally I do consider him to be an incarnation of God, intended for Westerners. Paul's outburst, on the other hand, does indeed seem truly unwarranted. I will say unequivocally that I don't think it's ever OK to harm people in the name of any religion. Christianity has a long history of violence, and I think this is because the Christian religion doesn't place any emphasis on non-violence.
    As an incarnation of God, Jesus could be expected to act as God who displays anger in scripture that precedes Jesus. However Jesus made it quite clear that the gospel is to be preached to the whole world and that would include easterners also.

    It isn't Christianity that has a history of vioence but those who practice it unworthily that have a history of violence. Itisn't that Christianity is non-vioent but simply does not incorporate vioence that is not from God. Those who practiced Christianity unworthily practiced violence that is not from God.

    My belief is that non-violence only works in a perfect world. For instance there is no violence in Heaven and there will be no violence in the New Jerusalem.

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by rog View Post
    Namaste,

    I am english, brought up as Church of England going to church nearly every sunday morning.
    Then we moved to west africa where I saw a more energetic christianity and also islam and african tribal religion.

    As a child my only spiritual realisation was that not all people are the same in some way which has nothing to do with race or professed religion. I saw good loving people and horrible people from every background but I could not understand why some people acted with such hatred and violence instead of love and support.

    I got involved with evangelical christianity in my teens but by 19 I was disillusioned and rejected it as false. I often thought about what had drawn me to it so strongly that I called myself a born again christian?

    For years I was passionately anti-christian and I loved nothing more than opportunities for debate and to ridicule them.

    For the past 25 years I continued to seek truth in the world hoping for a rational path to understand these questions. Much of my reading touched on religion and I realised that the bible is a mixture of history, myth, allegory and some spiritual truth which I attributed to humanity. Most of it was purely material and worldly and therefore full of falsity and delusion.

    I always said that christians made me angry because they hijack the concepts of love and forgiveness as their own when in reality it is in all peoples of all faiths and countries.

    Since I have become a Hindu it is quite funny how much truth I see in the bible, mostly from Jesus. I suspect he was a great soul but much of his words and accounts of his actions will have been twisted by Roman and wider european influences to produce what we now see as the bible.

    So (finally getting to the point!)the accounts of his anger do not ring true to me in light of his teaching on love, forgiveness etc.

    Many of the fundamental points he made which are harder to distort by 'story telling' are straight forward Hindu concepts.

    ie. "I am the way the truth and the light, no one can reach the father except through me"

    Before I was a Hindu I would say, how arrogant and foolish.

    Now I think he was a wise sage saying that he had received enlightenment about reality and oneness and that anyone could do this but only by making the same realisations.

    I try to see past the layers of delusion and see truth where ever it is.
    No one ever gets more angry than a person who loves. To say contrary is to see love as some kind of romantic non-sense.

    Now you are just in much in error about Jesus as you were before.

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by jaggin View Post
    No one ever gets more angry than a person who loves.
    Usually these kind of phrases are used in abusive relations.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaggin View Post

    Now you are just in much in error about Jesus as you were before.
    Bother to elaborate?

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Jesus (if you believe he existed) was a son of God not God.. so he was a normal person and it's fairly ok on his part to become angry except for someone enlightened like Buddha who was full of compassion and love for all life forms on earth
    ॐ महेश्वराय नमः

    || Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya ||

    Hara Hara Mahadeva Shambo Shankara

  7. Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Anything shown in comics, television serials or movies based on Dharma Grantham are heavily edited with the choice of editors to what to put and what to not. These are scripted by those who use Dharma Grantham for entertainment of their choice instead of enlightenment as they are.

    Krishna was never angry, but he was a King and a Justice, and he punished the wrong doers who were willfully doing wrong, nobody was exempted from even-handed justice of Krishna, fair justice is not anger. Krishna's life is full of anti-Krishna incidents but not a single time he lose his cool, he only worked to teach others with his strictness and not any anger.


    Jesus can't be same, he was angry when he was able to, and did nothing when he was unable to, he is no match of Prabhu or Ishwar ka putra
    [CENTER][B][FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=7][COLOR=Yellow] ॐ[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
    [/CENTER]

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Namaste,

    I also question if Jesus ever existed, but I do not accept the literalist christian interpretation. The Gnostics were the original orthodox christians. The Christians we see today that are very far right are a perversion. The Gospel of Thomas speaks of the Oneness of Christ with all. It also speaks of Christ Marriage with the divine mother. This is Shiva and Shakti. This was the intent of the Gnostic christians, that is why they accepted the Pagan Greeks who followed the mystery traditions of Dionysus, Mithras, and Bacchus. There were pagans who were allowed to be initiated into the Gnostic Christian mysteries and Gnostic Christians were allowed to be initiated into the Pagan mysteries. So they were not warring with each other and they also preached much about Ahimsa. Some of the Gnostic Christians were vegetarian. It is only the far right that the Roman version of Christianity became with the rise of Constantine who was a mad man, this far right teaching is what is causing all this hardship on this planet. It gave us the dark ages (so now we are 300 years behind in our sciences) and it continues to oppress us today around the world through politics.

    Please do not mistake Jesus for what the fools say, but look deep at the Gnostic Christ and then we can see that it is not so bad to say that Christ was enlightened.

    Om Namah Shivaya

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    For Hindus, Jesus will always remain irrelevant, historic or not, gnostic or otherwise. People just say that the Gnostic Jesus is the true Jesus, because it suits their modern idea of spirituality better. Even if there are a few elements in gnostic Christianity similar to Hinduism, we have no use of them. Two buckets of milk may be the same, but if a dog has drunk from one bucket, we wouldn't want to drink from it.

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    Re: Anger crisis with Jesus

    Namaste

    And if the dog is Yamadharma?

    Are you meaning to say that any and all Hindus who believe the gnostic version of Jesus as revealed in the ancient, not modern, Nag Hammadi scriptures, and subscribe to the "Jesus in India" hypothesis are not real Hindus?

    For the record, I don't do upasana of Jesus, I don't regard him as a viable ishta devata, at least for myself, I haven't any pictures of him, etc. He is more or less irrelevant to my practice and philosophy in the context of Hinduism, although I find the gnostic philosophy & cosmology almost completely in accord with the Hindu philosophies I subscribe to.

    Further, the Sanatana Dharma is not so by virtue of being confined to any particular culture or limited claim to truth. It is whatever is true and spiritually efficacious in any time, place, and culture in union with that which is true at all times. Yes, by far its most potent manifestation was nursed by the sacred rivers of Bharat, but in my opinion, Abrahamism represents one of the biggest threats to both Sanatana Dharma's expression anywhere and everywhere, as well as humanity itself, and it cannot be overcome by either violence or argument.

    The answer, in my opinion, is assimilating them in their mystical, esoteric forms - Gnosticism in Christianity for instance, which are almost entirely in agreement with the Hindu philosophies. If Jesus is put on equal footing with a myriad of Hindu sages, and an alternate historicity that involves India and yoga is revealed, this does nothing to weaken Hinduism, but everything to suborn Christianity and subsume it into the Sanatana Dharma through the gnostic path.

    It is not that Jesus adds anything significant to Hinduism, it is that the eternal dharma is the birthright of every human being, though they have been deprived of it by millenia of falsehood. In order to spread this fire across the earth, we have to realistically work with people, and societies, where they are at.

    Namaste
    Last edited by Shuddhasattva; 01 July 2012 at 02:23 PM.

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