Austerity

[Eastern Mind]

So my question to E M is : what is your state of mind when you sweat it out on your 6 km walk?

Namaste Jivattatva:

Firstly, I am not a Gaudiya Vaishnava. I am a Saiva of the Natha Sampradaya. So right from there, our views will and should be different. I do not accept the Gita as scriptural authority in the same way you would. That does not mean I don't revere it. It just wouldn't hold the same import to me as it would to you, just as the Christian Bible would not hold the same importance to you or me as it would to the Christians. The Agamas, the Vedas, the hymns of the Tamil Nayanars, and especially the writings of my own Gurus are my primary scriptures.

Today, I walked straight and relaxed in no hurry. (So I wasn't sweating it out.) I looked around and tried to see God Siva in the trees, in the people, in the blue sky, in the chilly temperature, and His presence being all-pervasive. I mentally chanted the panchakshara as I walked. My end destination was a store that sells decent incense. Of course there were some distractions like traffic lights. But when I returned I felt better like I might after visiting temple or doing puja or seva. It was also a calming time, and some insights came on how I should help with a pair of refugee boys whose educational care is partially in my lap.

Other times for austerity, especially for Murugan (who, as a Gaudiya Vaishnavite, you would likely know less of) things do get more intense for myself and for others. A more common austerity that you might relate to is the cleansing of the 22 wells of Rameswaram. All I know is that I feel better after such austerities. I feel humbled, more spiritualised, and rejuvenated. The spiritual batteries are recharged in a dynamic way.

I appreciate the vastness within Hinduism, but my path is far less intellectual than most. There is often less common ground to stand on for me than for many because of this. I've witnessed several rational intellectually gridded Hindus absolutely deny any kind of miracles for instance. But to me it is just natural.

So when you go for a walk (assuming you do) what are your thoughts?

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

True to a large extent but I am also of the opinion there is nothing that is impossible if you really put your heart in it. Success will always follow just that you need a bit of patience it may take a life time. another form of tapas!

Namaste GP: I'm not sure exactly what you meant, but I feel that the belief that nothing is impossible is one that is continued by so called self-esteem and positive thinkers of the west. As a teacher, I encountered it far too much. Parents had this opinion about their kids when it should have been more to the idea of 'doing your individual best'. I'll give you an example physically. I'm quite sure that with this physical body my karma got me into in this lifetime, even if I would have lifted weights and did sprint training like a madman, my best time in the 100m would never have gotten under 12 seconds. So its obvious physically that you can't always get what you want. But mentally and spiritually, its harder to see. There are certain handicaps emotionally or intellectually that are invisible to the untrained eye. I never got calculus either. I never will. It was beyond my intellectual capacity for this lifetime. Neither did I marry the world's prettiest model.

I prefer honesty towards oneself (and to others - with tact, or course) in all facets of life. Success does not always follow patience. Try teaching a kid with a learning disability for awhile and you'll know what I mean. So you have to redefine success to fit the individual.

Of course, in the grand scheme of things (perhaps this is what you meant) we are all headed to moksha, so that may be the greatest individual 'success' of all.

Aum Namasivaya

[shian]

about walk and reflexiology

today we have shoes, many street or mall is very flat

ancient people is not use shoes, they walk at pebbly street
so the stone will do reflexiology for foot.
That is one reason why life in villages is more health

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namast� EM,

if I would have lifted weights and did sprint training like a madman, my best time in the 100m would never have gotten under 12 seconds.

Shouldn't you be at the Olympic Games in Vancouver?

[Eastern Mind]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namast� EM,



Shouldn't you be at the Olympic Games in Vancouver?

Yes, come to think of it, on ice skates, on skis, on a horse, or in a car, I probably could do 100 m in less than 10 seconds. I hate to admit this, but I was a curler in earlier days. Only you and a couple of others would get this at all. Maybe if someone from India can take the time to explain the crazy game of cricket, I could explain the crazy game of curling.

First you need ice... then you need beer ... not necessarily in that order.

Aum Namasivaya

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste,

Yesterday I was talking to one of my best friends, a Catholic, and he was telling me how he was getting ready for Lent. For those of you who don't know, Lent is a Christian tradition of prayer, penitence, asceticism, etc. lasting forty days from Ash Wednesday to Easter. The forty days represent the time Jesus Christ spent fasting in the desert and being tempted by Satan. Christians who take part in Lent usually "give something up" for the forty days and engage in some form of self-denial. Some things include fasting, sleeping on the floor, no television, no sweets, etc.

That really got me thinking about the concept of penance in Hinduism. After reading about penance in the Christian tradition, I read about prayascitta: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pr%C4%81ya%C5%9Bcitta
I know it's not quite the same thing as austerity, but they are similar. I guess when Jivattatva said austerity is not torturing the body, prayascitta can be seen as that. Although I wouldn't quite call it torture. An example of prayascitta would be sleeping on the floor. Prayascitta could also be walking long distances just to take a toll on the body as an act of penance for sins. On the other hand, austerity would be walking long distances and, as Eastern Mind said, seeing God in the trees, in the people, and in the sky.

The two go hand in hand, but I guess prayascitta is more of a type of pennance and takes a physical toll to repay sins. Austerity is doing something ascetically to move closer to God. Not to say you can't move closer to God while doing prayascitta, but austerity usually isn't a type of penance to repay sins that's supposed to take a physical toll on the body.

[Eastern Mind]

a physical toll on the body.

Namaste Ramakrishna: Interesting stuff. Thank you. I think it might be interesting to examine just what is a physical toll on the body.

Walking, unless it is for ridiculously long periods, is no physical toll at all, quite the contrary in fact. Its called exercise and its good for the body. Sure you might be stiff for a day. Professional athletes, especially in sports like ice hockey, rugby, boxing, etc. take a much greater toll on bodies, even risking permanent knee damage, concussion, etc.

Even piercing kavadi, although it takes mental toughness at the time, and may look horrible, has no long-lasting effects.

The other concept besides repayment for sin, and bringing one closer to God, both of which you mentioned, is the idea of 'clearing the way'. Perhaps it is prepayment for sin. The most common example is stopping to break a coconut before undertaking a major task. The whole idea of praying to Ganesha to remove obstacles is this idea in a simple way. The feeling one gets from this is confidence, a sense that God is with me on this one. I used to do 108 prostrations before beginning a school year, for example.

Aum Namasivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam EM

Namaste GP: I'm not sure exactly what you meant, but I feel that the belief that nothing is impossible is one that is continued by so called self-esteem and positive thinkers of the west. As a teacher, I encountered it far too much. Parents had this opinion about their kids when it should have been more to the idea of 'doing your individual best'.

Off course you are looking at from western perspective, I acknowledge the limitation and thus it would be foolish for someone to pursue something that fly against someone natural ability, having said that even here the positive encouragement is something I still value, nothing can be accomplished without dedication and endeavour. How many times do we hear this, oh what a surprise, why? because they may have exceeded their limitation.
　
　

I'll give you an example physically. I'm quite sure that with this physical body my karma got me into in this lifetime, even if I would have lifted weights and did sprint training like a madman, my best time in the 100m would never have gotten under 12 seconds. So its obvious physically that you can't always get what you want. But mentally and spiritually, its harder to see. There are certain handicaps emotionally or intellectually that are invisible to the untrained eye. I never got calculus either. I never will. It was beyond my intellectual capacity for this lifetime. Neither did I marry the world's prettiest model.

All those could be achieved if the desires are there and that is why I said it may take life times. Our desires and karma is what shapes our future and we are afforded suitable body to accommodate those desires.

I prefer honesty towards oneself (and to others - with tact, or course) in all facets of life. Success does not always follow patience. Try teaching a kid with a learning disability for awhile and you'll know what I mean. So you have to redefine success to fit the individual.

I agree our life should be rooted in sat, success or failure is academic but patience is a virtue, and fruits of dhiraj are always sweet. I do not doubt the difficulties in teaching a disable child but one does not give up eventually that does produce results.

Coming back to austerity our focus is not on material achievement although it can lead to that goal if so desired.

Numerous personality have aceived seemingly impossible task from Bhagirath to bring Ganga on earth, Vishvamitra to chalange Vasistha, 5 year old Druva to have a kingdom bigger then his father, sati Savitri to save her husband from Yamraj to name but a few,

I do believe that desired goal is achieved by application and dedication but not without patience though, because if our bhagya in this life time may stops us, then in the next or the next it should come to fruition.

Success may mean different thing for different people and you rightly pointed the ultimate success is to achieve liberation and this does not come without Tapas of one form or the other. Lord Krishna says, Dhira who is not bewildered.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

GP: Thanks for clarifying you were coming from an Eastern perspective. I wasn't sure, therefore the long winded explanations.

From the Eastern perspective, for myself I would never attain those goals as they are not what I now desire. My main desire now is the Self, so I am in the process of ridding myself of those worldly desires of fame etc. But this is relatively rare. It is true for most of us on HDF, I would guess. I once interviewed a Hindu palmist for a magazine article. He gave me a free reading, and then asked if I had any questions. When I asked something reagrding my spiritual progress, he said it was an odd question as most people asked only about money.

Aum Namasivaya

[kd gupta]

Vannakkam all:

Tirukkural 267:
"As the intense fire of the furnace refines gold to brilliance, so does the burning suffering of austerity purify the soul to resplendence."
(from Himalayan Academy translation)

So for Sivaratri, we discussed fasting. I am looking for and thinking of ideas for other simple austerities. I think it is always good to have reminders of the nature of the world we live in, and this operates on many levels. (Environmental impact for one. development of personal will for another)

I'm reminded of the truth in a Rolling Stone song "You can't always get what you want."

Being able to do without is a boon to survival and long life. One of the simple things I do on a quasi regular basis is walk. Our temple is about 8k away, and 3 or 4 times a year, I walk. The local mall is about 5 k return, and if I have to pick up only one or two small items, I often walk. Same thing to mail a letter, go to neighbourhood store etc. I am wondering how others remind themselves on a regular basis to practise austerity a bit.

Hopefully others can give some suggestions or testimony of what works.

Aum Namasivaya

Great thought in fact , pl see....
Tapaswibhyo�dhiko yogee , The Yogi is thought to be superior to the ascetics .
tapashchaasmi tapaswishu , I am austerity in ascetics.

So what is the difference between Tapa and yoga . Some scriptures place tapa above yoga .