The Third Eye?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

Many good pieces of information have been offered above.

If one gets distracted by various experiences and chases them as a child chases a stray balloon in the air, then effort has been expended with little results.
I have been taught that when these experiences come ( and go) we just don't mind them much. While enjoyable to experience they come and go like clouds in the sky.

It is as if one is walking down the street and looks in a window while passing a shop... we see something but continue forward to our destination - It is the scenery along the way.

For those new to the path, these events of light or sound or body sensations are new. They should be discussed or acknowledged , but seen for what they are. They come they go, the same way a shooting star captures our awareness in the sky at night.

Ask yourself - how do I feel, act, think after meditation with the infusion of more clarity and pure awareness in my daily experience. We want more of that clarity to spill into activity and to be stabilized.

Now that said, there are specific practices (upāya-s) called out in the Vij�āna Bhairava that include the attention between the brow.
The intent is simple - madhya� .

praṇām


words
madhya - middle most; standing between two; this is where one finds turīya, the 4th.

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste Yajvan: As usual, I am in total agreement.

Aum Namasivaya

[MahaHrada]

The Yoga of the Agama Shaiva Siddhanta and Trika kaula has six angas or parts or auxilarys, they are Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Tarka, Dhyana, Samadhi.

Except Tarka (Judgement) the other angas are well known in other Systems of Yoga. Though not mentioned as an anga of Yoga in other Yoga shastras it is considered as the most important Anga in the agamic Yoga.

Without Judgement or Discrimination between what is accepted and what has to be rejected no progress in any path of bharata dharma, be it Advaita Vedanta, Samkhya, Yoga, Bauddha, Tantra, Shaiva or Siddha Siddhanta can be made.

Judgement and rejection of the illusiory is an universal requirement in all these darshanas.

A sadhak is not allowed to remain in ambiguity, neither rejecting nor accepting anything and he must not tolerate every kind of delusion under the umbrella of Hinduism, but discriminate.

Do we have to accept the validity of all kind of visons and claims of enlightment because we have to be forgiving and tolerant?

It seems that it doesn´t even matter for some if the person who has these visions is under the influence of constant medication because of his mental condition, and already has had schizophrenic or psychotic episodes.

Posting on an internet forum is not only light on a screen it can cause great harm to real people in the real world, especially when dealing with people that have mental problems in my opinion we have to show some responsibility and this includes help to discriminate between the real and the illusory.

According to the MAlinivijayaottara Tantra Tarka is the most important anga of Yoga:

Although being an auxiliary (anga) of yoga is common (to all other auxilaries) (Judgement (tarka) is the primary auxillary to Yoga since it is reflection on what must be rejected etc. Therefore it is enjoinend that efffort must be expended for it.

MAlinivijayaottara Tantra 17.19

Abhinavagupta writes in the Tantraloka:

It is certain that the learned sever the root of this tree (of differentiated awareness) which is difficult to cut with the hoe of correct judgement (sat tarka) its edge sharpened. The wise call it bhavana (insight contemplation) the cow which grants all wishes, who manifests even that which is inaccesible by desire...
Just as an ignorant person would hanker after inferior pleasures whether he has become aware of universal sovereignity or not, similarly in the case of liberation (he would aspire to lower stages) due to Limited Attachment (Raga)

In the svAyaMbhuvasUtrasangraha it is said about uha (discrimination):

Discrimination proceeds by impelling the mental processes which are stuck on the path. Once it has brought one to the final level, discrimination ceases at the highest point. Thereby the Yogi can discriminate between what is conducive to the perfection of Yoga and what is an obstruction, of which exists a great multiplicity.

svAyaMbhuvasUtrasangraha 20.31

In the Mrgendratantra this faculty is also called uha or abhviksana which means discriminating insight:

Since one knows by its operation which state is to be striven for and which is to be rejected, what nurtures it and what is inimical and what nurtures the enemy (of either state) uha is the most important Yoganga.

Mrgendratantra yp 9

In the Yogasutras of Patanjali instead of uha or tarka we find vivekakhyAti apprehension of discrimination:

The means of the avoidance of what has to be rejected is uninterrupted apprehension of discrimination
yogasutras 2.27

In the SAnkhyakArikA of Isvarakrishna uha is one of the 8 Perfections Gaudapada the Guru of Shankaracharya comments on it:

Judgement is when a certain person perpetually deliberates What here is the truth? What here is the ultimate? What is final beatitude? Doing what may I accomplish the pupose of my existence?
From such deliberation arises the knowledge that spirit is distinct from matter, that the intellect is distinct , that the individuator is distinct, that the sensory media, the senses and the five coarse elements are distinct. In this way arises the knowledge of the Principles whereby liberation takes place.

[Einherjar]

Thank you everyone for the different opinions and various insights and tidbits of knowledge.

As I said in the original post, I was not entirely sure what I had experienced and was wondering what exactly it was. I have done meditation in the past, but I had not been regular about it for a few years, and even when I had done that before I never had an experience quite like that.

So, essentially from what I'm understanding is that this was the result of my body not wanting to accept the denial of the senses? The ego fighting back from trying to be calmed and stilled?

[MahaHrada]

Thank you everyone for the different opinions and various insights and tidbits of knowledge.

As I said in the original post, I was not entirely sure what I had experienced and was wondering what exactly it was. I have done meditation in the past, but I had not been regular about it for a few years, and even when I had done that before I never had an experience quite like that.

So, essentially from what I'm understanding is that this was the result of my body not wanting to accept the denial of the senses? The ego fighting back from trying to be calmed and stilled?

It is more like a dreamstate while awake, memories, traumas, fears, desire suppressed content, everything can come up when the body and breath is controlled and senses are deprived of input. This is only an obstruction if one pays to much attention, one has to develop a non attached attitude and then it will be a release of tensions, ultimately these experiences will give place to calm.

If you look at saidevos link http://www.swamij.com/index.html
it is what the author decribes as active unconciousness.

Active Unconscious

By allowing the Active Unconscious to come forward and be witnessed in a neutral way, the thought patterns colored with intense attraction and aversion gradually weaken, allowing a greater peace and freedom of mind. This is one of the most direct ways to deal with the purifying, centering, or balancing of troublesome thoughts. However, few go beyond the boundary between the Active Unconscious and the Latent Unconscious. The Active Unconscious has alluring visions and sounds. Only the most dedicated Yogis are willing to completely transcend sensory experience of both external and internal objects, and to pursue the formless Latent level out of which the Active arises.

[DavidC]

[...]This is only an obstruction if one pays to much attention, one has to develop a non attached attitude and then it will be a release of tensions, ultimately these experiences will give place to calm.

You are right that these will give way to calmness. However, I think you have been too critical of Eastern Mind, and if you are saying the third eye is mainly a hallucination that is just evidence you have not opened it. Some things Eastern Mind originally said was that many people (materialists) just think this life is their life, and a comment about en lightenment. However, when one opens the third eye, which is not just a flash of light, but is probably more (see the Kundalini thread in the Yoga section)--allows you to see mentally, then one realizes materialism is not true and that there is more than this life that was and still may be in Maya. If you had completely illuminated your inner vision so it was not black at all--so your mind was illuminated, then I do not think you would be saying it is a hallucination: what is in the mind could be a hallucination. Of course one can call forms like the mind irrelevant next to formlessness, which is basically true, but then you get into philosophy of how to be practical in the world.

Of course some people might use the third eye for bad reasons, but it also has to do with how great Masters have powers--how they can see things an average person cannot (and do psychic/miraculous things.) Buddha said he has an eye of wisdom, an eye of the cosmos, etc.. As for people using it for bad reasons, I would never take anyone seriously that condones Aleister Crowley. Maybe he did some useful research, which may not be very original, but he was also immoral and wrote things like his idea of what type of child is best to sacrifice for a black magic ritual. Yet he says he was not a black magician! Why would anyone trust such a Westerner about Yoga instead of a virtuous Indian? I would trust Eastern Mind on this topic more.

[Einherjar]

You are right that these will give way to calmness. However, I think you have been too critical of Eastern Mind, and if you are saying the third eye is mainly a hallucination that is just evidence you have not opened it. Some things Eastern Mind originally said was that many people (materialists) just think this life is their life, and a comment about en lightenment. However, when one opens the third eye, which is not just a flash of light, but is probably more (see the Kundalini thread in the Yoga section)--allows you to see mentally, then one realizes materialism is not true and that there is more than this life that was and still may be in Maya. If you had completely illuminated your inner vision so it was not black at all--so your mind was illuminated, then I do not think you would be saying it is a hallucination: what is in the mind could be a hallucination. Of course one can call forms like the mind irrelevant next to formlessness, which is basically true, but then you get into philosophy of how to be practical in the world.

Of course some people might use the third eye for bad reasons, but it also has to do with how great Masters have powers--how they can see things an average person cannot (and do psychic/miraculous things.) Buddha said he has an eye of wisdom, an eye of the cosmos, etc.. As for people using it for bad reasons, I would never take anyone seriously that condones Aleister Crowley. Maybe he did some useful research, which may not be very original, but he was also immoral and wrote things like his idea of what type of child is best to sacrifice for a black magic ritual. Yet he says he was not a black magician! Why would anyone trust such a Westerner about Yoga instead of a virtuous Indian? I would trust Eastern Mind on this topic more.

I don't believe Aleister Crowley to be the greatest master of meditation of all time. He did, however, know what he was doing (most of the time. lol). There are a lot of misconceptions about Aleister Crowley due to his system of Thelema being at it's roots based on sexual energies. Due to this and the place/time he lived (Britain during the early 1900's along with a few other European nations) he could have been arrested and sent to jail for publishing things of that nature (Hurray for the Christian Church having political influences...). He also enjoyed people's misconceptions about him and laughed about them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleiste...ey#Controversy

[MahaHrada]

You are right that these will give way to calmness.

Judging from what you write I think you have misunderstood my postings.

I do not refer to chakras or kundalini and only mention the nadis in passing.

The topic is meditation, i do not associate visual hallucinations that occur in the beginning stages of meditation, with chakras or kundalini just because they appear at the level of the eyes.

Laya Yoga or Kundalini jagaran is a very advanced topic and very few people are well informend about the traditional methods nowadays.

I wonder why Yogis and tantrics need decades of meditation in secluded retreats to realise high attainments in Laya Yoga when others apparently at least according to you and other posters, awaken their third eye, or see the divine light or whatever already in a weekend meditation retreat.

Are these people so much more evolved that they can achieve these high stages so easily and the poor buddhist monks and hindu yogis so deluded they need to spent spent decades in retreat to achieve the same result?

In new age consumerism enlightment has become very cheap almost everybody today in the US and Europe is already enlightened, you only need to visit one neo advaita satsang once, or attend a weekend crash course and you come out with all your chakras opened and full enlightenement, cash back guranteed if not. But we are here in Hindu Dharma Forum thats why i presented the topic according to the Hindu shastras.

[Eastern Mind]

I don't believe Aleister Crowley to be the greatest master of meditation of all time. He did, however, know what he was doing (most of the time. lol). There are a lot of misconceptions about Aleister Crowley due to his system of Thelema being at it's roots based on sexual energies. Due to this and the place/time he lived (Britain during the early 1900's along with a few other European nations) he could have been arrested and sent to jail for publishing things of that nature (Hurray for the Christian Church having political influences...). He also enjoyed people's misconceptions about him and laughed about them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleiste...ey#Controversy

Vannakkam all: I know I said I was done, but I can't resist. Firstly I totally understand that the OP was referring to totally beginning stages. So was I. It is the beginning stages. The advanced stages, from my understanding, are exactly that, for the advanced. There is plenty of new age mumble jumble out there to get one confused. As Yajvan so eloquently pointed out, "They come, they go" regarding these initial experiences. Being a believer in Sanatana Dharma, and a believer in taking it slowly, which is Sanatana dharma, I would say it is always best to just let this stuff go and not pursue it, unless you are under the direct day to day tutelage of a Hindu meditation Guru who knows what he's talking about, and you are under some vows as a renunciate in an established parampara. For the vast majority of us, including me, we don't even have the will to meditate properly anyway, so we take to bhakti, proper lifestyle, just doing seva, and learning some control of our own emotions.

Aum Namasivaya

[DavidC]

Judging from what you write I think you have misunderstood my postings.

Well, I think you have misunderstood me and Eastern Mind.

I do not refer to chakras or kundalini and only mention the nadis in passing.

I did because the Yoga section Kundalini thread discusses how Kundalini opens the third eye, and the biological functioning of the third eye. When a forceful motion up the entire spine and into the head causes light in ajna, it is quite stronger and more orderly than random electrical light below and behind the eyes.

The topic is meditation, i do not associate visual hallucinations that occur in the beginning stages of meditation, with chakras or kundalini just because they appear at the level of the eyes.

Fine. The light of ajna chakra occurs a bit above the eyes anyway... and its activity is quite a different coloured and more intense eye-shaped illumination than any small amount of random electrical activity in the brain's visual areas. As I implied, the third eye also has to do with a different area--the pineal gland, which has optic nerve endings. When light goes into those it is quite different and you will know it has happened. I had not even known there were optic nerves there, but it makes sense.

I wonder why Yogis and tantrics need decades of meditation in secluded retreats to realise high attainments in Laya Yoga when others apparently at least according to you and other posters, awaken their third eye, or see the divine light or whatever already in a weekend meditation retreat.

Are these people so much more evolved that they can achieve these high stages so easily and the poor buddhist monks and hindu yogis so deluded they need to spent spent decades in retreat to achieve the same result?

In decades of meditation they can accomplish higher things... for example the calmess you mentioned, and developing practical wisdom, as well as more advanced things that mere illumination of the third eye--such as powers/miracles. Maybe not all the 'yogis' and 'tantrics' are purifying themselves with ahimsa. Some also say you can achieve enlightenment in 1 - 1.5 months of daily practice (but to attain the power to put that knowledge to certain greater use can take lifetimes, let alone decades.) It took me several months of Yoga before I opened my third eye... but that is not the end of the path--maybe the beginning. Before that it is full of doubtful intellectualism, which you seem to be focused on. In the next part I think you are stereotyping me, but since you are in Europe learning from the lineage of a teacher of European ethnicity, what you said applies much to yourself.

In new age consumerism enlightment has become very cheap almost everybody today in the US and Europe is already enlightened, you only need to visit one neo advaita satsang once, or attend a weekend crash course and you come out with all your chakras opened and full enlightenement, cash back guranteed if not. But we are here in Hindu Dharma Forum thats why i presented the topic according to the Hindu shastras.

I see... and Aleister Crowley is the Hindu shastras and not New Age consumerism? You are the one that brought him up. The third eye is also studied in other cultures, so I do not feel the need to be restricted to the Hindu shastras, though they are great... but Crowley is not someone I would trust compared to any average esoteric philosophy, let alone great non-Indian ones such as the Nazareans & Pythagoreans and influenced Druids.