Tone: Truth or Opinion

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste all:

I find that some postings have an overall tone of "This is the way it is", I know what I'm talking about. I find this a barrier to communication. Such phrases as
"Actually this is the way it is.."
"Now this is the truth"
"All Hindus believe.."
"The fact is"
"I know that..."

are all misleading. I would suggest that in all cases the statements are either outright opinion, or interpretation gathered by the individual because of his particular readings of scripture or interpretation of scripture. In other words it's the old "I am right, and you are wrong" attitude.

Sometimes it has even gotten to the point of denying another person's personal experience, which is the epitome of vanity, IMHO. It's like telling an afraid child that they aren't afraid.

Let's face it. We are a diverse group. We build Hindu Solidarity by learning a bit about how others view things. We destroy Hindu Solidarity by telling others they are wrong. Nobody is wrong. There are just different viewpoints.

I much prefer phrasing such as the following:

"Perhaps I can offer a different POV..."
"IMHO..."
"My personal ideas on this are..."

At least then it doesn't come across as insulting, or abusive, or superior.

Thank you all for reading this.

Aum Namasivaya

[MahaHrada]

Namaste all:

I find that some postings have an overall tone of "This is the way it is", I know what I'm talking about. I find this a barrier to communication. Such phrases as
"Actually this is the way it is.."
"Now this is the truth"
"All Hindus believe.."
"The fact is"
"I know that..."

are all misleading. I would suggest that in all cases the statements are either outright opinion, or interpretation gathered by the individual because of his particular readings of scripture or interpretation of scripture. In other words it's the old "I am right, and you are wrong" attitude.

Sometimes it has even gotten to the point of denying another person's personal experience, which is the epitome of vanity, IMHO. It's like telling an afraid child that they aren't afraid.

Let's face it. We are a diverse group. We build Hindu Solidarity by learning a bit about how others view things. We destroy Hindu Solidarity by telling others they are wrong. Nobody is wrong. There are just different viewpoints.

I much prefer phrasing such as the following:

"Perhaps I can offer a different POV..."
"IMHO..."
"My personal ideas on this are..."

At least then it doesn't come across as insulting, or abusive, or superior.

Thank you all for reading this.

Aum Namasivaya

I have the completly oppositte opinion, I find postings that are full of useless ambiguities like:

"Perhaps I can offer a different POV..."
"IMHO..."
"My personal ideas on this are..."

hypocritical and i usually do not even read or react to such postings because most of the time this is nothing but a polite lie, but besides being hypocritical they are also boring to read because of the longwinded sentences that these people need as excuses for having an opinion

In a discussion you must know what the other persons thinks if this is drowned by ambiguities discussion becomes impossible.

Having expertise and knowledge is not something one has to be ashamend of.

Not everything is an opinion there is also something like the truth about a subject and there are other aspects where we have no certain knowledge but we have opinions, both these cases can exist.

If i know the truth about a subject, not because i am convinced of it but because i have studied it for a long time and have expertise about it , and nonetheless pretend that it is only a point of view because it is the political correct way of expression, this is for me an absolutely disgusting hypocritical communication.

When everyone is afraid of a clearly expressing what he thinks and know , the postings would become long winded boring monologues, with nobody responding because nothing definite is stated, why react to someone who is afraid to define himself?

When everybody is always using ambiguites and all kind of delusions and errors and crackpot ideas are accepted as just another POV, nothing of real value is achieved.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�


regarding ' it must be, it is, it is absolutely this way' ; ' its only this way' .

Svāmī Lakṣman-jū has said ignornace is not so much about what you don't know, but what you do know that's just not right.

praṇām

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam all
　
　
I am all for tolerance and respect for different point of view, since there are a lot of paths in SD branching from reading the same Shastra's

Pushpadant sings thus

2. Atitah panthanam tava ca mahima vanmanasayor

Atad vyavrttya yam cakita mabhi dhatte srutirapi,

Sa kasya stotavyah katividha gunah kasya visayah

Pade tvarvacine patati na manah kasya na vacah.



Your greatness is beyond the reach of mind and speech. Who can properly praise that which even the Vedas describe with trepidation, by means of' 'not this, not this'? How many qualities does He possess? By whom can He be perceived? Yet whose mind and speech do not turn to the form later taken by Him (saguna) ?

There is bound to be difference of opinion but I feel our discussion and opinion should be grounded in Shastra�s and Sadhu, differences there in should be respected, here is what Shree Krishna says.
　
One who acts under the influence of their desires, disobeying scriptural injunctions, neither attains perfection nor happiness nor the supreme goal. (16.23)

Therefore, let the scripture be your authority in determining what should be done and what should not be done. You should perform your duty following the scriptural injunction. (16.24)

Jai Shree Krishna

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

What we can say without too much conjuring is that speech falls under the niyama¹ of śauca and the yama of ahiṁsā called out by by Patañjali-ji.

This śauca is considered purity, integrity, honesty, clean-ness and we know ahiṁsā as non-injury. Hence it seems reasonable that speech take on these two qualities. Pleasant & factual speech I think is possible. It needs to be an intention on the side of the speaker, and not just an accident that occurs.

praṇām

words

niyama
We consider niyama as observances, yet if look at this word, perhaps it tells us something, ni+yama. This ni has the meaning of do, back, into or down into.

Another view: ni(negating) + yama ( in this application) yama as death. That is, niyama can been seen as the negation death,
therefore birth… One can then view niyama as giving birth and life to the observances, that bring life and substance.

Another: It can also be looked at the negation of disease, ni+ya+ ama; ni - the negation and + ya - restraint of + ama -disease. Hence this view suggests niyama is to negate and/or restrain disease (or dis-ease, that cause for mind-body dis-harmony).

What are the 5 niyamas?
The yamas and niyamas are not mutually exclusive but support each other and bring sustenance to each quality.

Śauca - cleanliness. Yet in essence, purity. We can consider the purity of the heart and mind ( thinking and emotions)
Santoṣa - contentment. The absence of greed and possessing in excess ( hoarding)
Tapas - is from tapa , to consume by heat or fire; this tapas blooms as tapasya. Most think austerity; some think religious austerity, penance, even severe restrictions. From a practical perspective , tapasya is self-control. This tapas compliments the yama of aparigraha (to back-away from and release i.e. non-hoarding).
Svadhayāya - is considered study. It is also self-knowing. The study that can assist the individual to become SELF-knowing.
Īśvara-praṇidhāna - this is the notion of recognizing and advancing ( some say adoring) Īśvara. Creating that personal relationship with Sarvesvara (Lord of All).

praṇām

[Jivattatva]

Namaste


I agree with MahaHradaa.


I think the OP of Eastern Mind is the mother of all cop outs!

There are many ways to discern the truth and there are types of truth. Thats for another topic because its a very big subject .

[devotee]

Namaste EM,

I wholeheartedly agree with you. My admiration for you increases manifold by considering the fact that this priceless wisdom has come from a person who in this life was not born & brought up as a Hindu in India. You are a lovely Hindu in true sense.

What I have noticed that the problem you have pointed out is mostly in those Hindus who are not born Hindus or even if they are born Hindus, they are not brought up in India. However, we can't do much with these esteemed members as you must have realised by reading some of the posts here in reply to your post. Some members have placed themselves a bit too high to listen to your words of wisdom. Please don't get disheartened ... imho, there is greater number here that supports your views.

I wonder, if someone really claims to "know" (absolute knowledge and not relative), what he gains in a discussion on a forum like this ?

OM

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast� Jivattatva

I think the OP of Eastern Mind is the mother of all cop outs!

Can you help me better understand your point of view - what is the cop out in this application of the phrase?

To avoid fulfilling a commitment or responsibility -- is this how you are applying the word/phrase?

praṇām

[atanu]

Namaste All,

After eating an apple, if I say "I think I ate an apple", that I think, will be too much.

On the other hand, regarding the truth, JT is probably wrong when he says: there are types of truth. And when he says: There are many ways to discern the truth, is he not contradicting himself?

Regarding knowing, even the highest of sages say:

Kena U.

II-1. If you think, �I know Brahman rightly�, you have known but little of Brahman�s (true) nature. What you know of His form and what form you know among the gods (too is but little). Therefore Brahman is still to be inquired into by you. I think Brahman is known to me.
II-2. I think not I know Brahman rightly, nor do I think It is unknown. I know (and I do not know also). He among us who knows that knows It (Brahman); not that It is not known nor that It is known.

Om Namah Shivaya

[atanu]

This reminds me.

My father used to adore and listen to Bade Ghulam Ali and K. L. Saigal. We, his sons, were very emphatic that those artists were sh-t. I particularly gave a lot of pain to my father but he used to smile. Then, we saw how Kishore Kumar (whom we adored), adored K. L. Saigal and Bade Ghulam Ali, with daily worship.

I cite above, because of a reason. Similar thing happened, when I saw a picture of Shri Lakshman Joo with folded palms praying to Shri Ramana Maharshi. This does not mean that one is greater than the other but that only the Jnani knows the Jnani and the Jnana.

We can only pit one opinion against another and pose to be speaking the only truth, helped by caustic language.

Om Namah Shivaya