ISKCON is not and never was a cult.

[bhaktajan]

Hare Krishna's were never a Cult [in the modern sense]:

When Bhaktivedanta Swami was establishing his international Krishna Consciouness movement ---he mostly avoided media interviews.

He was the Guru of the movement yet he was proclaiming another person as the Goal: Krishna's Fame.

After Bhaktivedanta Swami's passing, The Hare Krsihna movement went through a "weeding out process". The Hare Krsihna movement ex-communicated and exciled and shunned all those that were within the ranks that had fallen from strict braminical disciplines ---by asking them to leave the movement (or self-demote oneself to menial tasks within the temple).

The Hare Krishnas are exclusive, and demanding of orthodoxy.

This is the Gold-standard-of-measurement that is always maintained by first-rate Yoga Institutions.

[grames]

I nominate Grames for a Nobel Peace Prise.

Man, you are making me laugh so loud in the morning!

Hare Krishna!

[Hiwaunis]

but iskcon ?
but iskcon ?
but iskcon ?

ISKCON got you guys on the map!

The western world is fill with YOGA terminology thanks to the HARE KRISHNA MOVEMENT.

The work done by ISKCON throughout the world will never be surpassed by anyother efforts. It's been too late for that.

The rest of the world must face THEIR DIRTY LAUNDRY, now.
That will make book disytribution a little easier.

The status quo seen in ISKCON past was NO SURPRISE to the educated vedantist.
But that is what it took to plant the seed first before others came along with their own mass destinies.


BTW, Donate your MONEY to a member of the ISKCON diasopra; make good karma.

Pranam,
Ah yes the ISKCON. Why didn't someone tell ME it was a cult?
I remember my first encounter with those guys in the airport. This was over 23 years ago. Some guy in orange dress approached my husband and said, "would you like a book"? My husband replied, "no, I don't read that stuff give it to her". So the Hare Krishna Rep, turns to me and said, "would you like a book"? Then he handed me a book. I said, "thank you but I don't have any money". He said, "that's o.k." and then walked away.

The book is titled, The Nectar of Instruction. It's a 130 page paper-back book. I still have it today. I am looking at it right now. Back then I did not have a clue what A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA was or meant. The text is in sanskrit, then sanskrit translated, then each word is translated into English. At the bottom of the page is an overall translation of what was first written in sanskrit. Did that help me? Nope, but I read the book anyway.

TEXT ONE:
A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak the minds demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciiples all over the world.

Back then I was a "good Christian" and the above statement meant nothing to me.

Today, I understand. ISKCON is a cult-NOT! GAYATRI PARIWAR is a cult-NOT, BRAHMA KUMARIS WORLD SPIRITUAL UNIVERSITY is a cult-NOT. ALL OF YOU WHO LIVE IN AN ASHRAM OR ARE ASSOCIATED WITH ANY LARGE OR SMALL SPIRITUAL MOVEMENT BELONG TO A CULT-NOT, NOT, NOT!

Please explain the reason for getting up between the hours of 4am and 5am to meditate. Please explain the reason for chanting over 1700 mantras a day. Please explain the reason for staying away from some and not eating the food cooked by others. While you are at it please explain why you can't use Mac operating system on a Windows base computer?

ISKCON please continue to chant over 1700 mantras a day, please? We are barely into Kali yuga and it is a living hell! The earth's atmoshpere needs those pure vibrations.

Why is it that every time someone wants to travel on the spiritual path family and friends try to divert them with " NOBODY ELSE DOES THAT"? Spirituality is whats keeping this world stable.

ISKCON, The Nectar of Instruction. Back then I was a young mother and didn't have extra money. Today I do. Mohini Shakti Devi I would like to make a donation. Please send me the address so that I may create good karma.

If you want to change the world you must first change yourself. (Whose words are those?)

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

[bhaktajan]

"Donate your MONEY to a member of the ISKCON diasopra; make good karma."

We all know about ''thithing" and giving donation upon visit to a tirtha (pilgrimage location/temple) . . .

I have been thinking in the back of my mind the following self-preformed propositition:

"Adopt a Brahmacari/Adopt a Brahmacarini Program"

IOW, sponsor 'something' [a scholarship-like gift] ---[BTW, it should be recogised as a Tax-deductable charitable donation] for the further Education of a temple Monk/Monkette and/or congregations' child or children.

IE: A trust account can be formed to pay for X,Y,Z to allow for extra-curricular activities.

Note: these things occur but they occur depending on those who already have the means to do so; while others cannot.

Similarly, financial retirement plans, that a karma-free [IRA are investing in all sorts of banker's and thus, mixed-karmic transactions versus, clean "green" Investment plans].

I am thinking of approaching the local temple president and asking who deserves to, say, travel to a distant tirtha along with the chartered bus, bat cannot afford to pay the fees ----but I am indeed saying to do it ananomously And for a specific person who is without reserve cash.

[bhaktajan]

"my first encounter with those guys in the airport."

As I was infromed in 1990, [by Satyaraja]: "It has become illegal to do book distribution in American Airports [for ISKCON & all others too]".

Is this still the status Quo in American Airports?

[grames]

Just answering few questions...


1. Please explain the reason for getting up between the hours of 4am and 5am to meditate.

This hr of the day is called Brahma Muhurta and that is the very auspicious time to do meditation, japa etc. Scientifically if you care to know, it is the time span where the ozone is available for breathing. When we inhale pure oxygen, our body gets enormous energy and that energy can be spend for the rest of the day's activities. Doing Gayatri at this time or Sandya will activate all our indriyas and a spritual seeker is suppose to do the karmic activities only after the indriyas are cleansed in this fashion. ( Know when the Brahma Muhurta is and try to wake up at that time for at least 1 week with the help of Alarm etc. and see for yourself whether it has any effect on your body, mind and if possible soul). For ISKCON members i believe Krishna Mantra is the Brahma Muhurta mantra too.

2. Please explain the reason for chanting over 1700 mantras a day.
This number 1700 is not about the different mantras but about the count of only one mantra. Usually Mantra given as part of initiation by a Guru has the some of the spiritual power of the Guru. The Name Japa is the practical and ideal way of progressing in your spiritual quest in this age of Kali as per KSU and for ISKCON members it is Shri Krishna Maha Mantra.

(Whoever utters three and a half Crores (or thirty-five millions) times this Mantra composed of sixteen names (or words) crosses the sin of the murder of a Brahmana. He becomes purified from the sin of the theft of gold. He becomes purified from the sin of cohabitation with a woman of low caste. He is purified from the sins of wrong done to Pitris, Devas and men. Having given up all Dharmas, he becomes freed at once from all sins. He is at once released from all bondage. That he is at once released from all bondage is the Upanishad.)

3. Please explain the reason for staying away from some and not eating the food cooked by others.
This question is not correct in the sense that, ISKCON people do eat what "others" cook as long the "other" is a spiritual person and the food is offered to Lord Krishna. In other words, they love to consume only Krishna prasad. It is one way of cleansing your senses spiritually just like how hearing, seeing etc. eating a spiritual prasadam improves their spiritual quest.

Why not associate with others? Who are the others? Someone who is not spiritual and who is in the mode of Rajas and Tamas or someone who is an atheist or disguised as an devotee but truly have no idea of what God is. Whats the harm associating with people like that? You are at the gates of learning and experiencing the spiritual qualities of Lord and your progress depends on your focus and attention as well as undisturbed faith in the path you have chosen. (Whatever path it is, the process is same. Someone who has chosen Raja Yoga path will not benefit much by associating with someone in other path.). If you have done any specialization like PhD or doctorate in any subject, you will really understand the meaning of why avoid association of "others" as while doing such specialization our whole attention will be only on the subject of specialization and we tend to spend almost all our time only with people who are experts in that particular subject.


4 While you are at it please explain why you can't use Mac operating system on a Windows base computer?

Mac on Windows? OS on OS is bad idea but you can run various OS using visualization tools nowadays. If you meant to ask, why can't we run Mac on any X86 based PCs, then the answer is very simple. Apple makes money through two different sources viz. hardware and software and also their OS gives the best experience only if the hardware and software are in sync and happy together like a great husband and wife. If hardware sucks, the OS will be like Windows which you do not want.

In the same line, to achieve the best out of your process, you need to have the best of the best environment (hardware) so that your software ( spiritual knowledge) performs best (pala).

5. If you want to change the world you must first change yourself. (Whose words are those?)

The mostly identified person who uttered this is M Gandhi though it is not his own thought.

[Jivattatva]

Cult is about control.

And I find it pathetic that some here defend ISKCON's past even when they were not there when it's at its cultic peak in the past.

I have not lived in an ISKCON ashram for almost 20 years now so I dont know how they are doing now --maybe much better because, well, they are not in the news lately. But I think their donation solicitation so-called sankirtan activity is still very questionable.

I dont have time to write tons and tons of posts so I will direct you to read the following. All the books below except "Monkey" were written by Prabhupad disciples.

Also old newsitems from the N.Y. times like this may give you ISKCON apologists some reality jolt. More to come if you drag on with this thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/18/us...l?pagewanted=1

http://www.rickross.com/reference/kr...krishna90.html

http://www.neirr.org/Krishnaproblems.htm


Books by ISKCON initiated disciples

1. Monkey on a Stick . Buy it here

http://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Stick-O.../dp/0451401875

2. Betrayal of the spirit -

http://www.amazon.com/Betrayal-Spiri...ref=pd_sim_b_1


3. Servant of the Lotus feet: A Hare Krishna Odyssey

http://www.amazon.com/Servant-Lotus-...ref=pd_sim_b_6

4. Hare krishna in America

http://www.amazon.com/Hare-Krishna-A...ef=pd_sim_b_12


Other info:

http://www.religionfacts.com/a-z-rel...hna-iskcon.htm

[grames]

Hello dear,

What makes you think people are defending here the past?

All the links you have posted had been caused by the so called unfortunate people who never been sincere or attempted even to the little to understand the life style that SP has recommended. If you are thinking people here are defending ISKCON as a brand, you are mistaken. The explanations are all about the life style, spiritual practice that was given by Srila Prabupada himself.

On the positive side, look at the people who are still carrying Srila Prabupada's message and instructions sincerely and truth should be taken from them rather some garbage past.

[bhaktajan]

Oy Mate,

I shared the same ashram room with Bala, Bhavananda's servant.

I saw New Vrindavan ex-communicated.

I saw West 55th St Sold.

Jivattatva,

Maybe it hasn't occurred to you that "man bites dog stories sells" for reasons that PT Barnum [of Barnum & bailey Circus Fame] said about his customer base.

I suggest you watch Ken Burns' Documentary, "the American Civil War" to get a glimps of selfless service for the betterment of mankind as preformed by guileless persons born and destined to act.

I WAS THERE AND I HAVE NOT ABANDONED MY POST.

I never sought a substitute for my old life.

I am a Hare Krishna Iskcon member because it is Sanatana Dharma that I have finally arrived at after passing through all other yogic paths during past lifes.

That is why I do not loose heart when I reflect on all the fallen comrades from the past.

It would MAKE INTERESTING READING to reveal on these forums how you, Jivatattva, experienced what the Buddha called the 'First Nobel Truth' [this world is a place of suffering].

The first hand experience in the form of a testimony would reveal a personal journey that is all your own.

BTW, I knew 90% of each person named in "Monkey on a Stick".

"Monkey on a Stick" documents each atrocity and also each sensationalised event by the authors, who by the way, wrote in a 'very sympathethic tone [the authors maintained a favorably inclined overview toward ISKCON aka, the HARE KRISHNA MOVEMENT]' I will openly and confidently speculate that every book linked above is similarly is written with 'very sympathethic tone toward ISKCON' without nary a one who calls for a desolution of ISKCON.

In my fallen opinion is that NO ONE EVER Leaves the Krishna Consciousness Movement ---they simply disperse in all directions with the goal of being the best they can be on their own terms.

The irony of the publication linked above is that all the authors are all still maintaining Krsna Conscious satsanga, anyway you spin it**.

**Just like Jivatattva's ex-ashram mates.



Kali yuga's qualities; conditioned Minds with the 4 defects [lying, cheating, mistaken,ill-informed]; and the external influences such as: past-karma; other people including our brother Cains; the oportunistic nature of mass karma; and even, falling tree-limbs, all show that there is danger at every step in the material world.

[ScottMalaysia]

Hello dear,

What makes you think people are defending here the past?

All the links you have posted had been caused by the so called unfortunate people who never been sincere or attempted even to the little to understand the life style that SP has recommended. If you are thinking people here are defending ISKCON as a brand, you are mistaken. The explanations are all about the life style, spiritual practice that was given by Srila Prabupada himself.

On the positive side, look at the people who are still carrying Srila Prabupada's message and instructions sincerely and truth should be taken from them rather some garbage past.

So all the controversial stuff was in the past? None of it happens now?

For those considering ISKCON or Gaudiya Vaishnavism, I will give you my two cents.

Go with the Gaudiya Math, run by Srila Prabhupada's good friend Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaj, whom Srila Prabhupada told his disciples to contact to perform his funeral. They are far less "fanatical" than ISKCON. They do not require disciples to chant 16 rounds per day in order to be initiated. Narayana Maharaj looks at a person's sincerity, rather than the "tehnicalities" of chanting etc. He also doesn't say that sex is only for procreation. In his letter to me, he told me "I am not responsible for your behaviour in grhasta asram". One of the devotees at the Gaudiya Math temple in Malaysia told me that many of the devotees there were originally from ISKCON but later switched to the Gaudiya Math.