Why is there a God in the first place?

[saidevo]

It seems to me that we can find reflections of great Truths in the states and events of the created world.

Since Brahman is one without a second, and since all the transient realities are only manifestations the One Reality, we can infer two things:

1. The sum total of all the material faculties in all the planes of the Cosmos makes up the Cosmic Sheaths of the Saguna Brahman. (Does the word cosmos have its root in the Sanskrit term kosha?)

2. The sum total of all the consciousness that is inherent in the matter in Cosmos is the Cosmic Consciousness of the Saguna Brahman.

Since all that lives in the Cosmos are reflections of the Brahman, then the three states that mark the daily life of a human also mark that of the Saguna Brahman. In other words, all that happens in the wakeful (jagrat) state of the souls constitute the Jagrat State of Brahman. In the same way, Brahman has two other states: Dream (svapna) state and Deep Sleep (sushupti), corresponding to the activities in the astral and mental worlds. Therefore, we can say that when Nirguna Brahman manifests as Saguna Brahman, he has three states: jagrat, svapna and sushupti.

This means that the Turiya state should correspond to the Nirguna Brahman, where all differences are resolved into Unity. This may be the reason that conscious realization of Brahman happens only in the Turiya state of meditation.

Thus, the eternal cycle of Creation and Dissolution represent the daily life of Brahman in his scale of time. They are the natural outcome of his breathing out and in. In the Turiya state, he stops breathing and goes into samadhi.

But why create and dissolve at all? The answer may be a counter question:

Why does the human soul wake up after deep sleep and why is it reborn in successive lives? If the answer to this question is Trisna, the desire and longing for life and experiences, for Brahman it may be his own Trisna that makes him repeat what he is doing, in eternal cycles of time.

If Trisna of a human soul carries the tag of Karma, so does the Trisna of Brahman, which is the sum total of all karma in the Cosmos.

These are just my impressons, I have no idea of any scriptural correspondences.

[Sudarshan]

Just because you have free will does not mean that you have to use it. Besides with no freewill they people are just windup disposible toy, not real value. And since people are disposible all religion is just a waste of time, sure you can do rituals and make sacrifices but will all of peoples action programed there is no way to change the out come.

If you want to have variability and a chance of a different out come then free will is about the only way to achieve it. And in a freewill environment brahman has no idea of where his creation is going and how it will end up before this planet dies from the sun going out. In this type of play, then rituals and the other trappings of religion are useful in the sense of recieving instructions from devine sources. But free will must go along with a dualist outlook on the arguement that seems to go on endlessly here.

Freewill is programmed to culminate in divine will, so that you can have icing on the cake.


One scenario:

Just imagine samsAra to be a maze, with innumerable paths in it, with exactly one entry and one exit. So the freewill must finally cultimate in the exit, regardless of the time taken. You may go round and round the maze and mark all the routes you have travelled, and thus make sure you dont enter a false route traversed earliern - that is handled by the law of Karma. So given arbitary length of time, the exit will be found - sometimes very fast too.

Both freewill and divine will are addressed in such a maze. If a human can think thus, God's maze must have much bigger surprises in store for us. It could be something much more than such a maze, with lots of place for right paths, wrong paths, love paths, the path of action, path of knowledge etc in it, each with its own unique aspects. Perhaps there is also a shortest path through the maze known as grace too - that many people talking and fighting about?

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Sudarshan,

God’s maze is the ultimate matrix, spun by the loom of time.

[Sudarshan]

Namaste Sudarshan,

God’s maze is the ultimate matrix, spun by the loom of time.

Agreed. The ubiquitous OM.

[willie]

This maze theory is full of holes. If devine will it the ultimate end then it would stand to reason that no human action could affect the outcome. So the sum of human existence is a useless exercise. All the talk of religion and higher learning is just that, talk with no action and no progress.

Additionally what of all the stories about higher developed parts of brahman comming to earth, such as krishna and rama? Where these just made up stories to keep the con job of freewill going and subject humans to the myth and keep them in the dark. I don't think so! Sure brahman may probably has a long range plan for humanity and these higher developed being were trying to get things back on track so the final solution can come about.

With out real free will then there is no true religion and no reason to resist any thought or action. It will all work out in the end.

The real ultimate truth is that with no freewill then brahman would still exist but humans are just disposable trash to be used and tossed away, just keep the con going and keep future generations doing the work to achieve the end result.

[Sudarshan]

This maze theory is full of holes. If devine will it the ultimate end then it would stand to reason that no human action could affect the outcome. So the sum of human existence is a useless exercise. All the talk of religion and higher learning is just that, talk with no action and no progress.

Since you do not percieve God, and the objective of life is to find God, it is obvious that there is a maze. No holes at all. Only the details of the maze could be interpreted differently. If you beleive in a God, the maze cannot be dismissed regardless of your religion.

Additionally what of all the stories about higher developed parts of brahman comming to earth, such as krishna and rama? Where these just made up stories to keep the con job of freewill going and subject humans to the myth and keep them in the dark. I don't think so! Sure brahman may probably has a long range plan for humanity and these higher developed being were trying to get things back on track so the final solution can come about.

Parts of Brahman? Krishna and Rama? Brahman has not parts, dear.

With out real free will then there is no true religion and no reason to resist any thought or action. It will all work out in the end.
The real ultimate truth is that with no freewill then brahman would still exist but humans are just disposable trash to be used and tossed away, just keep the con going and keep future generations doing the work to achieve the end result.

Inside the maze, you have the freewill to choose a wide variety of routes before you reach the exit. Christianity and Islam also have such exits, but their "wicked" god created two exits - HELL and HEAVEN, for the maze, with exactly one route for heaven and infinite routes for Hell. A wise God, reagrdless of his reason for creation would have allowed only one EXIT - moskha. That is why it is called a sport. This cannot exist in dualism which accepts entities completely outside God, like Satan or the world.

God's omnipotence and omniscience comes from his omnipresence. Without such all pervasiveness, even God cannot accomplish wahetver he wants, and such freewill outside God will lead to the damnation of the majority.

God creating something out of nothing is a statement equivalent to atheism. When God alone exists, everything should come from him alone.(good or bad both relative)

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Willie,

No human action or will can affect the ultimate outcome, only the length of time spent searching for the entry (rather than exit, for surely we are born by an exit and return by the entrance to heaven). And all religion is intended primarily to guide its followers with certainty and grace to that door.

[Sudarshan]

Inside the maze, you have the freewill to choose a wide variety of routes before you reach the exit. Christianity and Islam also have such exits, but their "wicked" god created two exits - HELL and HEAVEN, for the maze, with exactly one route for heaven and infinite routes for Hell. A wise God, reagrdless of his reason for creation would have allowed only one EXIT - moskha. That is why it is called a sport. This cannot exist in dualism which accepts entities completely outside God, like Satan or the world.

In Shanti Parva, Bhishma explains the fate of a Yogi who failed in the Yoga, by either falling to his senses, inadequate control of mind, misuse of siddhis and similar things. He goes on telling Yudhistira that whoever shall fail in Yoga will get hell and whoever will succeed will go to Brahman.

The shocked Yudhishtira is forced to ask why the failed Yogi is made to enter the painful hell. That is when Bhishma explains that he refrerred to the transient heavens ( the seven heavens) as hell, as anything short of the world of Brahman is an intolerable hell.

By the standards of the bliss of Brahman, any non eternal existance however blissful is equal to hell. It is just like comparing the numbers 1,2,10, 100 etc to infinity. It does not matter if you have 1 or one million units of bliss, it is zero percent of Brahman.

Christian hell may also be referring to this concept, but the brimstones and gnashing of teeth present the wrong idea.

[willie]

With no freewill to do as you please a person is not an autonomous enitiy but only a wind up top for brahman. And it that is the case then there no such thing as dharma or kharma, just meaning less talk. The conjob that brahman is pulling off on all humanity.

And as for rama, krishna and the others parts of brahman, it is not time to leave these labels behind and admit to being monotheism and put the other myth to rest.

There is not use in having a maze if the end is the same, sure the earth will be destroyed at some point, when the sun goes out. But if it is blown to dust, part of it might go into making another planet , as the whether or not that planet will have any intelligent life on it is another story.

It seem to always come down to whether or not a person believes in god and then the belittling of that persons concept of god begins. Well here is another question. Why would a person want to believe in a god that needed to have a bunch or windup toys to tell it how great it was? Certainly that is bad of worse then any hell, and you better take another look at hell in the old testament. It sure does not say much about torture, mostly is it a place where people are not subject to god's love.

[sarabhanga]

I think that this 'creation' is like the dance of a dancer. That dancer is nataraja and he is dancing...creating, sustaining, destroying all at the same time from the subatomic level to the highest levels of our experience.

See: Shiva Nataraja