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Thread: Hell inside the earth?

  1. #11
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    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    To my mind, it is impossible for anyone to ever actually be converted from one faith to another, unless of course their original faith was not well founded in the first place ~ in which case, is it conversion or merely an attempt at education?

    "Conversions" and "re-conversions" ~ really, what is actually being converted here? Certainly not anything to do with true devotion or firm conviction or complete faith! As far as I can see it is only switching between Avidya and Ignorance ~ and switching only for social convenience or a desire for financial gain.

    Where are the wise Brahmans of Tamil Nadu? It is clear that (in general) properly advising the people on spiritual matters has not been their major concern. And perhaps an even more important question is where is their next generation, armed with proper knowledge of Dharma and actively supporting the faith in their local communities??

  2. #12

    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    I have seen areas which were almost fully converted by chiristians and seen how a single Hindu sadhu can turn the table and make entire areas fully Hindu again. But there are very few such Karma Yogis in our hindu communities. We mostly hava jnana yogis.

    Hard to believe but if eben some hindu's deciede they want to stop aggretion to their dharmas we can do it. Most of us are not willing to risk it all for dharma. We are more happy to be intellectual about it.

    I think divine plan is simple if we can't live by our dharma, people will leave for easier brainwashing religions. Main threat to hinduism is ultimately Islam. If we are not going to stand upto the Islamic challenge, I see large scale conversion to Xianity as blessing in disguise. With Islam we will loose it all and there will be no dharma in the world. With modern Xianity, I'm not sure, few dharmics will be allowed to live. And Islam has a very poor trac record against Xianity owing to similarity in beliefs.

  3. #13
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    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga
    Where are the wise Brahmans of Tamil Nadu? It is clear that (in general) properly advising the people on spiritual matters has not been their major concern. And perhaps an even more important question is where is their next generation, armed with proper knowledge of Dharma and actively supporting the faith in their local communities??
    I think what is happening is the traditional hold is getting lost. The previous generation of Brahmins and others were usually versed in vedas and knoweldgeable about the tradition and Hindu Dharma in general. Nowadays, there is no such thing taking place - and young people are either never introduced to religion or dont take any interest. Such people find it far more easier to understand the 100 page bible than our voluminous literature. It is even more easier to understand the 3 page versions of bible that are distributed. Not only that, Christian missionaries in rural areas spread lies about Hinduism by quoting parts of it out of context and distributing it. How will rural folk understand this deciet? We can do the same thing with the bible, but Hindu will go to jail.

    Perhaps Christianity has simplified everything with its mantra of "know nothing, do nothing, just Jesus" and Hinduism is more complex to understand? I still find Smartas and Srivaishnavas knowledgeable( the two main traditions of TN) regarding their own beleifs and not too many will convert for any reason. The same is not true of the lower strata of the society, and with some Hindus proclaiming that all religions are one and the same, and if our people beleive that , they are more than happy to forsake their original ways in exchange for some money.

    You are right. The firm faith and beleif is not there in the first place, else no conversion will take place. But Christianity does not care for beleif, their sole aim is numbers. So we cannot afford to be indifferent, and we have to reconvert even if the issue of faith is not important. It preserves the tradition and the future generations.

    On CF I found myself challenged by some christians that they can convert every Hindu in India and it was only a matter of time. The Southern Baptist Church of India was involved in serious controversies a while ago for mocking at other beleifs in public and refusing to take back their words. How could we let this happen, with the government taking no notice of these public slander of majority religion by minority faiths? They are actually issuing an open challenege at Hindu Dharma, while our secular parties are not bothered to step in. Countries like Singapore have banned Christian Missioanaries in toto - we should precisely do that if the trend continues.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  4. #14

    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabhanga
    To my mind, it is impossible for anyone to ever actually be converted from one faith to another, unless of course their original faith was not well founded in the first place ~ in which case, is it conversion or merely an attempt at education?

    "Conversions" and "re-conversions" ~ really, what is actually being converted here? Certainly not anything to do with true devotion or firm conviction or complete faith! As far as I can see it is only switching between Avidya and Ignorance ~ and switching only for social convenience or a desire for financial gain.
    This is true at a personal level. When I look at a single convert, I will give the same logic. re-converting a Xian may not directly mean that this person is switching to vidya from avidya. I'm sure that their beliefs and understanding are at such a level that it makes no difference. For these peoples their personal understanding of God must have been similar in both Traditions.

    However forces are acting at a societal level here and consiquences are not what you say. We are seeing disappearence of advanced understanding of religion from this part of the world. Nature of Xianity is aggression and intolerance. Thus loosing one guy is not merely loosing one guy but one more enemy. Vivekananda told this long long back. If ultimately this indicates to a time where there will no more be any dharma in this part of the world ~ it can't be a good thing!!!. When we look at it from societies point of view and not merely "I-You" persons there is a lot and lot to be done on the part of the hindu's. This falls in the domain of social duty and those with Kshatriya mind-set must jump in.

    And I have seen in real life that even a single Hindu can turn the table against many churches for there is not comparisson between the power of dharma and adharma.

    If only I had such power and fire of sacrifice!!!


    here are the wise Brahmans of Tamil Nadu? It is clear that (in general) properly advising the people on spiritual matters has not been their major concern. And perhaps an even more important question is where is their next generation, armed with proper knowledge of Dharma and actively supporting the faith in their local communities??
    Where are the brahmanas in general?? I think they stopped advicing the general lot in spiritual matters long long back and had been interested in amassing property under their lineage.

  5. #15
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    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    This was one of them:

    wwwdotreligioustolerancedotorg/sbc_pray2.htm
    Last edited by satay; 04 September 2006 at 08:03 PM.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  6. #16

    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Souther Baptist Pamplet
    > Hindus seek power and blessing through the worship of gods and goddesses and the demonic powers that lay behind them."
    > Hindus lack a concept of sin or personal responsibility."
    > ...the darkness in their Hindu hearts that no lamp can dispel.''
    > ...demonic powers lie behind Hindu gods."
    > ...more than 900 million people lost in the hopeless darkness of Hinduism."
    > Walking through the streets of India during Divali is a sobering reminder of the power of darkness that lies over this land."
    >Mumbai [India] is a city of spiritual darkness. Eight out of every 10 people are Hindu, slaves bound by fear and tradition to false gods."
    > Satan has retained his hold on Calcutta through Kali and other gods and goddesses of Hinduism. It's time for Christ's salvation to come to Calcutta."
    > Hindus live under ''the power of Satan.''
    It is indeed amazing to see, how hateful they are to a religion which has nothing against them and no relation to them.

    If I didn't had the idea about Asurik mindset and Asruk dogmas I'd have remained baffled at this ~ non-abrahamic religions just cannot understand this level of hate speech. It is close to maddness.

    When the hate is a reaction to adverse treatment by others, it is a natural reaction. Such hate can be controlled by love as love is what they want.

    But when hate has no basis other than self-determinism and maddness, no love can cure it. Tolerance to this mindset only makes them more powerful and determined.
    Last edited by sm78; 04 September 2006 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    In Tamil, Brahmins are called by the name "parppAn" which means a seer or sage. In olden days the Brahmin was synomous with a sage with awakened consciousness through the practice of Yoga. Unfortunately, this has degenerated into a myth.

    Hinduism is loosing out because of loss of Yoga. We have remained bookish and in the absence of transcendendal knowledge, we have no more proof than Adharmic religions. We must revive the Yogic cult to revive true Dharma - a handful of true Yogis in day to day life is more than enough to shut out adharmis. An adharmi will shudder to even look at such a person, leave alone abuse our tradition.

    Hindus must believe in verifying God right here rather than going to some distant planet like the adharmic religions. That is the only fool proof way of preserving the tradition. Hindus have always been scientific even in matters of religion and we must keep that tradition going somehow. A few such people can transform the faith of entire masses by their grace.
    Guard your Dharma, Burn the Myth, Promote the Truth, Crush the superstition.

  8. #18

    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    Countries like Singapore have banned Christian Missioanaries in toto - we should precisely do that if the trend continues.
    Hi Sudharshan,

    I was reading an article about religion in Singapore earlier and I thought these parts were somewhat relevant:




    The growth of Christianity and of those professing no religion was greatest in the Chinese community, with most of the Christian converts being young, well-educated people in secure white-collar and professional jobs. Most converts joined evangelical and charismatic Protestant churches worshiping in English. About one-third of the members of Parliament were Christians, as were many cabinet ministers and members of the ruling party, which was dominated by well-educated, Englishspeaking Chinese. The association of Christianity with elite social and political status may have helped attract some converts.


    By the late 1980s, some Buddhist organizations were winning converts by following the Protestant churches in offering services, hymnbooks, and counseling in English and Mandarin. A Buddhist Society at the National University of Singapore offered lectures and social activities similar to those of the popular Christian Fellowship. Some Chinese secondary students chose Buddhism as their compulsory religious studies subject, regarding Confucianism as too distant and abstract and Bible study as too Western and too difficult. They then were likely to join Buddhist organizations, which offered congenial groups, use of English, and a link with Asian cultural traditions. In the late 1980s, other Chinese whitecollar and skilled workers were joining the Japan-based Soka Gakkai (Value Creation Society, an organization based on Nichiren Buddhism), which provided a simple, direct style of worship featuring chanting of a few texts and formulas and a wide range of social activities. The more successful religious groups, Christian and Buddhist, offered directly accessible religious practice with no elaborate ritual or difficult doctrine and a supportive social group.
    ...

    The government, although secular, was concerned, however, with the social consequences of religiously motivated social action and therefore monitored and sometimes prohibited the activities of religious groups. The authorities feared that religion could sometimes lead to social and implicitly political action or to contention between ethnic groups. Islamic fundamentalism, for example, was a very sensitive topic that was seldom publicly discussed. Throughout the 1980s, the authorities were reported to have made unpublicized arrests and expulsions of Islamic activists. The government restricted the activities of some Christian groups, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses who opposed military service, and in 1987 the government detained a group of Roman Catholic social activists, accusing them of using church organizations as cover for a Marxist plot. The charismatic and fundamentalist Protestant groups, though generally apolitical and focused on individuals, aroused official anxiety through their drive for more converts. Authorities feared that Christian proselytization directed at the Malays would generate resentment, tensions, and possible communal conflict. As early as 1974 the government had "advised" the Bible Society of Singapore to stop publishing materials in Malay. In late 1988 and early 1989, a series of leaders, including Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, condemned "insensitive evangelization" as a serious threat to racial harmony....
    From the same article: In 1988 the Ministry of Community Development reported the religious distribution to be 28.3 percent Buddhist, 18.7 percent Christian, 17.6 percent no religion, 16 percent Islam, 13.4 percent Daoist, 9 percent Hindu, and 1.1 percent other religions (Sikhs, Parsis, Jews).
    ----
    In 2000, more than 40% of Singaporeans professed to be Buddhists according to http://www.singstat.gov.sg/keystats/c2000/religion.pdf and Wikipedia.

  9. #19
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    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudarshan
    Infact you do not perhaps know of the situation in Tamil Nadu.
    namaste,
    Yes, I know the situation in Tamil. Similiar situation exists in the north.
    But please I request you again to not post any links to adharmic sites on this forum. If you must post a link then at least provide a counter link as sarabhanga suggested. Also, if you must post an adharmic link for reference then don't post it as a url. Do what I did with your links...

    okay?

    Thanks for following the site rules.
    satay

  10. #20
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    Re: Hell inside the earth?

    What I don't understand is why would a hindu convert to a religion that is least understanding in life?

    In other words, a hindu would be giving up alot!
    Life is Yoga.

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