chanting = form of bhakti? Or physical drill?

[bhaktajan]

Is mechanical chanting a form of bhakti //or// it is physical drill?

Ranjeetmore has prompted me to form this thread for examining the workings of japa-mala, bhajan, kirtan . . . rosaries et al.

Ranjeetmore wrote in another thread [My Catholic parents are kicking me out !]:

"Is mechanical chanting as a form of bhakti when in fact it is physical drill."

Personally, in the west, I think it would be smart of us to encourage "Bolo Hari Nama" by way of "japa-mala" as a central motto.

The slogan could be something like:

Free Philosophy Classes Today ---or just do your Rosaries.

or

Now, new and improved power japa chanting for the modern guy and gal.

or

Get your japa on ---for God's sake

or

It's 10 O'clock do you know where your prayer bead are hanging out?

or

Moms for better-ment of Devotionals.

or

The Department of Prayer Bead Management is looking for self-staters ---Join Now!

[bhaktajan]

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[WomenForKrsna]

Haribol,

There is never any loss chanting japa, whereas it is more impowered when we pay attention. Better to do it when can sit down, or walk about and look at Deity pictures, or just nothing else to interrupt. Then chant japa. But not to avoid chanting japa because situation isn't perfect. No. Always good to chant japa. Then when done, its not that we're done chanting, just do another form, like singing. In the Spiritual Sky, always they are singing or chanting "Hare Krishna."

[herbaltradition]

I do agree that chanting often becomes a form of physical drill than otherwise. However, even then it helps inculcate discipline in one's life, which is very necessary for spiritual progress.

[Believer]

Chanting becomes a physical drill only if you let it.

A person on a spiritual quest would do japa singularly in the proper mood of meditating on the Lord's name. His mind would be totally occupied with japa and there will be no distractions from mundane activities. However, for a common person with no pressing need for spiritual advancement, and only marginal association with the religious practices, japa too will be a marginal routine activity. It is not something he is happy to do, but has to be done for the sake of his professed association with his faith. Such japa brings no results with it and is a waste of time.

So, whether japa is a routine drill or a means to spiritual advancement, depends entirely on the needs and devotion of the devotee. I have seen some ISKCON devotees who have been chanting for 20-30 years and can't figure out why it is not helping them advance spiritually. Those poor souls are lost. The only benefit that comes out of chanting for a prescribed number of times mechanically is that for that duration, you would not utter anything negative, which is a small consolation as compared to the big prize of spiritual advancement.

[kd gupta]

Is mechanical chanting a form of bhakti //or// it is physical drill?

Ranjeetmore has prompted me to form this thread for examining the workings of japa-mala, bhajan, kirtan . . . rosaries et al.

Ranjeetmore wrote in another thread [My Catholic parents are kicking me out !]:

"Is mechanical chanting as a form of bhakti when in fact it is physical drill."

Personally, in the west, I think it would be smart of us to encourage "Bolo Hari Nama" by way of "japa-mala" as a central motto.

The slogan could be something like:

Free Philosophy Classes Today ---or just do your Rosaries.

or

Now, new and improved power japa chanting for the modern guy and gal.

or

Get your japa on ---for God's sake

or

It's 10 O'clock do you know where your prayer bead are hanging out?

or

Moms for better-ment of Devotionals.

or

The Department of Prayer Bead Management is looking for self-staters ---Join Now!

Welcome and my good wishes to you Bhaktajan .
Bhajan is atmashanti and a ladder to eternal peace .A bhajan in hindi from Surdasji..

Bhajan bin bail birane huoho .
Gham vari aru sheet vikati ati tab kahan mud duraiho .
Phuti nak aru tute dantan kab lau dhaun bhus khaihaho .
Ladat jotat lakut bajihe tab kase gun gaiho .
Surdas BHAGWANT BHAJAN BIN byartha janam ganvaiho .

This whole life will go waste without hari bhajan . Believe my friend , no physical drill , this is my 58 yrs experience , there is and there will be the eternal peace always ,be devoted and enjoy a melodious bhajan whenever you find .
Namaste astu vidvate namaste stanyitnave .
Namaste Bhagwannastu yatah swa samihase�yaj

Aum Peace .

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste Believer,

Chanting becomes a physical drill only if you let it.

A person on a spiritual quest would do japa singularly in the proper mood of meditating on the Lord's name. His mind would be totally occupied with japa and there will be no distractions from mundane activities. However, for a common person with no pressing need for spiritual advancement, and only marginal association with the religious practices, japa too will be a marginal routine activity. It is not something he is happy to do, but has to be done for the sake of his professed association with his faith. Such japa brings no results with it and is a waste of time.

So, whether japa is a routine drill or a means to spiritual advancement, depends entirely on the needs and devotion of the devotee. I have seen some ISKCON devotees who have been chanting for 20-30 years and can't figure out why it is not helping them advance spiritually. Those poor souls are lost. The only benefit that comes out of chanting for a prescribed number of times mechanically is that for that duration, you would not utter anything negative, which is a small consolation as compared to the big prize of spiritual advancement.

I completely agree. I must say that there have been several times in the past when japa was pretty much a physical drill for me. Maybe I was just out of it that day and felt like I needed to do japa but I didn't put any bhakti into it. But then there have also been numerous times when I have done japa with 100% bhakti and it was incredible.

Bhakti is the key. Only without bhakti and sincere devotion and love for God does japa turn into a physical drill.

Jai Sri Krishna

[saidevo]

namaste everyone.

Here is a Hari-bhajan that could bring tears to the devotee's eyes. Whoever composed the bhajan should be a mahAnubhAva--noblest-minded.

The two lines enclosed by square brackets below are rarely included in the bhajan.

Hari bhajana bina sukha shAnti nahin |
Hari nAma bina Ananada nahin |
[prema bhakti bina uddhara nahin |
guru seva bina nirvANa nahin |]
japa dhyAna bina saMyoga nahin |
prabhu darshan bina pragnan nahin |
daya-dharma bina satkarma nahin |
BhagavAn bina koi apna nahin |
BhagavAn bina koi apna nahin |
Hari nAm bina paramAtma nahin |
Hari nAm bina paramAtma nahin |

The meaning, which is easy to grasp, is:

Without a Hari-bhajan, there is no comfort or peace; (that is any comfort and peace would be meaningless).
Without (chanting) Hari's name, there is no bliss.
[Without beloved devotion there is no elevation.
Without serving the Guru, there is no liberation.]
Without litany and meditation, there is no union with God.
Without sympathy and dharma, there is no meritorious karma.
Except BhagavAn--God, there is no one who is our kith or kin.
Except BhagavAn--God, there is no one who is our kith or kin.
Without Hari's name, there is no ParamAtman--Brahman.
Without Hari's name, there is no ParamAtman--Brahman.

This is one of the bhajans sung by devotees of BhagavAn Sathya Sai Baba, where the lyric does not have any reference to Sai as the devata adored, so it might be also be sung by those who take exceptions.

Here are some links to the bhajan where Baba himself leads the bhajan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN4dFyZNKco
http://www.hindudevotionalblog.com/2...anti-nahi.html
http://www.sathyasai.org/audio/audio...ajanabina1.MP3