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Thread: Thatthvamasi(tatvamasi) and sankara charya vedanta

  1. #41

    Re: Thatthvamasi(tatvamasi) and sankara charya vedanta

    praNAm SaidevoJi

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Did you have this article in mind, when you wrote your above words?
    Archery and the Art of Reducing Karma through Yoga
    http://www.swamij.com/archery-karma-yoga.htm
    No. Thank You for that link. The Swamiji has put it so well.

    Saidevoji and Guptaji ,
    Those were some very good connections, about PrArabdha and Brahman teaching Brahman. And Arjuna being compelled to fight - past karma, Kshatriya nature.

    I learnt about the karma types and quiver full of arrows from my Advaita Teacher - thru' his articles and also sort of "in person". Pretty neat.

    -----------------

    In fact , this was the main part of how it went... (if I may share it here for the benefit of other readers ? Next Post .... )
    Last edited by smaranam; 06 March 2010 at 04:19 PM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  2. #42

    Re: Thatthvamasi(tatvamasi) and sankara charya vedanta

    Namaste

    Some conversation with Guruji , relating to prArabdha, since the topic has come up.

    me: If vAsanA have to be erradicated, the living mind may have automatically transcended them if the intellect has understood the identity and has fully realized the Self/Brahman ? I suppose it is a matter of experience then.
    {here by identity , we mean "Tat Tvam asi" , subject = object ID }

    Dr. Sadananda: It is knowledge than experience per sec. It is knowledge that there is nothing more to know or do. I understand that I was never a doer but actions are being done in my presence. Hence Krishna says - prakRityevaca karmaaNi kriyamaaNaani sarvasaH - All actions are done by prakRiti only - this is true whether I am a jnaani or ajnaani - jnaani will know this so he sees the actions that are being performed by BMI but he never takes himself as responsible for the actions since he was never a doer.

    The sanchita and aagami will not belong to him - with jnaana the connection to him gone. Only prarabda is left - that belongs to prakRiti now part of BMI. Hence body, mind and intellect will go through their destined prarabda. Jnaani sees the so-called BMI is undergoing its prarabda but he himself is unaffected since it does not belong to him. He sees as His own glory or modestly he may say it is all the glory of the Lord. Everything becomes HIS vibhuuti. That is the understanding or jnaana not experience since experience comes and goes - knowledge stays.

    me: That perfectly answers my qn !
    So if I am understanding this correctly -
    that is what prArabdha for the JivanMukta is. He may say, the body is hungry, and if there are laddoos on the countertop, its OK for the BMI to take the decision to eat one. That was not me, let BMI do what it takes, or wants to do ?

    Dr. SadAnanda : Yes BMI has praarabda like an arrow that was shot they have to go through what ever that was destined.
    This is true for everyone.
    Jnaani understood that he is not BMI but that existence consciousness that lends both existence as well as consciousness to BMI.
    Hence he can as Saakshii watch the BMI sufferings as well as enjoyments. It is like watching movie on the screen - both tragedies and comedies we watch and say the movie was very good. Even the suffering we can watch only because it is a movie and not real.
    Jnaani understood that BMI is not real but only apparent. Hence all modifications are only apparent and not real. It becomes beautiful creation to watch. Hence it is called LEELA. It is understood as LEELA only if I can stand apart and watch without getting involved.
    Hence Jnaani does not have praarabda but he sees the play of praarabda of the BMI and through the BMI the world.

    --------------------

    More to follow....
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  3. #43

    Re: Thatthvamasi(tatvamasi) and sankara charya vedanta

    Namaste

    Some musing - just putting what everyone here has said (and many times in the past) , in my own words.
    It helps me to put things in my own words

    Perhaps one major point missed is

    WHO IS THIS 'I'

    The one who says "but this is real" , is right in their frame of ref.
    because they are being a character in Brahman's dream ! That is all that needs to be understood.

    Except for those refuting for the sake of others (Like Chaitanya MahaPrabhu, saying its bad for society's health in general , and perhaps Proud Hindu too )
    the seeker-Advaita-refuter , is NOT practicing "Aham Brahmasmi", but only being a dream-jIva in Ishwar's dream, basically anAtmA , non-Brahman, forgive me!

    THE biggest error here is thinking it is seeker1's dream or seeker2's dream. It is neither. IT IS ISHWAR's DREAM.
    (The rope in the rope-snake , is Ishwar's creation , VyAvahAric. The snake is jIva's creation , prAtibhAsic.
    When jIva identifies with AtmA , it comes out of this. )

    Until and unless "Aham BrahmAsmi" , "Tat Tvam asi" seeps in
    which is the whole point of Jnana marga sAdhanA ,
    the dream-jIva is SWIMMING IN THE DREAM, thinking it is real-but-impermanent.

    Is there recursion involved ?
    My favourite professor in first yr of college , said to us one day "Read Alice in Wonderland carefully , you will understand recursion". Wierd ?

    Some use chemistry and quantum mechanics to explain Jagat, how about algorithmic concepts like recursion ?

    praNAm
    Last edited by smaranam; 18 March 2010 at 08:12 AM. Reason: para-phrased : role of seeker-refuter
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  4. #44

    Re: Thatthvamasi(tatvamasi) and sankara charya vedanta

    Namaste

    QUOTE Guptaji : So dream is action of third eye and not of mind or mann and of course not the illusion ,I am not a doctor , so may be wrong too .

    QUOTE Devoteeji : as far as I know, the third eye is the door way to super-consciousness and not to subconsciousness. The whole world of dream is within the realm of subconsciousness of mind.




    As far as I know, dreams - the REM sleep conventional dreams , are "given by the Lord to burn out / compensate for insignificant karma." So if its a nightmare, its a kArmic reaction (bad). If its Lord or a Guru giving darshan, its also a kArmic reaction (good).

    Of Course , this I do not think includes mystical things "seen" or "shown" while awake. THAT seems like Third Eye. To me its just Lord working on individual.

    So , whether sub-conscious (lower self) or SuperConscious (Higher Self),
    it is an experience given by the Lord. This is how it is for me.
    I think its just a matter of level of relative reality. 'Realer than' or not. How seriously to take it.

    Dreams as well as waking-dreams/sights/insights can be helpful to an individual. We have a whole set of 'guiding dreams'.

    So Guptaji does have a point. Ultimately, it is Consciousness at work only.

    At the Absolute level, its all for a purpose till the individual is Self Realized,
    and Swami ShivAnanda writes that such people have no dreams. Its all pure consciousness. Because there are no vAsanAs left, no imaginations, no mission, no goals to achieve. This is the sAkshi - witness. Appearantly there is no outer entity that gives an involuntary experience.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  5. #45

    Re: Thatthvamasi(tatvamasi) and sankara charya vedanta

    Namaste everybody
    Now it has become a good thread discussing all factors like I ,YOU , BRAHMAN ,DREAM , ULTIMATE TRUTH , IGNORANCE , DELUSION and ADVAITA .
    No doubt , Advaita is ultimate truth . Now see , today I was reading…This too shall pass , a heading by some foreigner , but I don’t think it is as good as Advaita , which says …Yeh bhi na rahega…This also will perish .
    Krsn asks to Arjun…
    Kacchid ajnaanasammohah pranashtaste dhananjaya.
    Has the DELUSION of thy
    ignorance been fully destroyed, O Dhananjaya?
    So here it is understood that delusion is more harmful compared to ignorance .
    Or in other words in the same trend we find that something is more important than gyan .Accordingly ,also many times we feel awake and know that , oh I was dreaming , while that remains another dream , so it is dream under dream .
    Now Krsn tells about the factor which is more important than gyan…
    Jyotishaamapi tajjyotistamasah paramuchyate;
    That, the Light of all lights, is beyond darkness; it is said to be knowledge.
    Madbhakta
    O , my devotee…..and that is what I mean , the Devotion .

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