Karma and illusion: the Unreal logic of Kevala advaita
Where is the illusion here?(A advaitan d:nonadvaitan)
A followed rules and reached destination(mukthi).
D didnt follow rules and didn't reach destination.
Where is the Illusion here?.
New Member
Karma and illusion: the Unreal logic of Kevala advaita
Where is the illusion here?(A advaitan d:nonadvaitan)
A followed rules and reached destination(mukthi).
D didnt follow rules and didn't reach destination.
Where is the Illusion here?.
~*~*~*~*~
Precisely , where is it ?Originally Posted by proudhindu
May D continue happily. D is eventually a mukta too in D's own way.
Dream-jiva chose the Bhagavad Gita (or so she thought)Pick one : [Kevala] Advaita or Bhagavad Gita
And Krshna chose dream-jiva , as He kept dreaming
While jiva was still figuring out what's going on, Krshna put in her hands the Gift of Advaita, all wrapped in Infinity, with a Leela Bow on top.
So, now she has
>>Bhagvad Gita
>>Advaita
>>Krshna !
Am i dreaming ? she thought....
.......
....
What's wrong Radhe, why do you look so worried ?
Lord, We ... left Prakrti behind ! ..... We forgot ?
No, My Love, Prakrti cannot go with Us, she has work to do. If She does not spread the MAyA-net MAyAJAl, Our dream will end.
Look at those - dream-jivas, dream-mountains .... how breath-taking
That white horse [shaking His Head] I [Brahman] took the dream-horse to the dream-pond but could not make him dream-drink.
That's because he is only a dream-horse KAnhA, don't be too hard on him.
[Radha looked at Him affectionately. How deeply He loved His Creation.
She did not fully understand though....]
silence .....
NAth, why can't We take Prakrti with US ?
We can't Radhe
But why not ?
[He studied Her intently for a few moments]
You miss Your sister , don't You ?
Prakrti cannot go with Us, because She is MAyA, This is My Yoga. Try to understand. Do You want Our dream to end ?
No. I understand now, completely. [In His happiness lay Hers]
Last edited by smaranam; 05 March 2010 at 08:10 AM.
|| Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||
BHAVANI TVAM
namaste phji,
i think this has been discussed several times.
ganga and cauvery are 2 diff rivers.but when observed closely both the rivers are nothin but water.so there is only water and no ganga or cauvery.still,the water is nothin but molecules of H and O(so on upto quarks and strings),so its no more water but the fundamental matter in everythin,like that when we discriminate b/n uddalaka and shvetaketu,both are nothin but prajnana.so its that way of viewing things.
Sarva DharmAAn Parityajya
New Member
Pranaam Amith
.
Not so fast. A river is a natural watercourse.You say the glass contains water. you never say river is in the glass.When u say there is river ganga you are referring to A particularwater course.
..River is so there is only water and no ganga or cauvery
That is an incorrect perception of Reality.you call something a River when there is water flowing on Land.
That is advaitan way of viewing things which runs COMPLETELY contrary to Human logic.still,the water is nothin but molecules of H and O(so on upto quarks and strings),so its no more water but the fundamental matter in everythin,like that when we discriminate b/n uddalaka and shvetaketu,both are nothin but prajnana.so its that way of viewing things.
matter contains basic particles(say quarks and strings until hadron collider gives contrary results) which leads to different substances.
Would you drink kerosene to quench your thirst because it contains the same basic particles of water?.
Uddalaka and shvetaketu are individuals one is being taught and another is the teacher.If one cannot make distinction b/n the two then one should not be having any discussion.
Amit and Ph are nothing but prajnana.So, what is that we are discussing?.
New Member
So, there is no difference in A and D status.Then why teach Advaita?.
I think i am dreaming.I am not reading this post.It is just an illusion.Dream-jiva chose the Bhagavad Gita (or so she thought)
And Krshna chose dream-jiva , as He kept dreaming
While jiva was still figuring out what's going on, Krshna put in her hands the Gift of Advaita, all wrapped in Infinity, with a Leela Bow on top.
So, now she has
>>Bhagvad Gita
>>Advaita
>>Krshna !
Am i dreaming ? she thought....
.......
....
What's wrong Radhe, why do you look so worried ?
Lord, We ... left Prakrti behind ! ..... We forgot ?
No, My Love, Prakrti cannot go with Us, she has work to do. If She does not spread the MAyA-net MAyAJAl, Our dream will end.
Look at those - dream-jivas, dream-mountains .... how breath-taking
That white horse [shaking His Head] I [Brahman] took the dream-horse to the dream-pond but could not make him dream-drink.
That's because he is only a dream-horse KAnhA, don't be too hard on him.
[Radha looked at Him affectionately. How deeply He loved His Creation.
She did not fully understand though....]
silence .....
NAth, why can't We take Prakrti with US ?
We can't Radhe
But why not ?
[He studied Her intently for a few moments]
You miss Your sister , don't You ?
Prakrti cannot go with Us, because She is MAyA, This is My Yoga. Try to understand. Do You want Our dream to end ?
No. I understand now, completely. [In His happiness lay Hers]
Nuff said.
Banned
To all those who criticize Advaita, think about this for a moment:
Have you ever had a dream? If so, in that dream, you must have had "you" (the experiencer) and other "people" or "objects" and/or "landscapes" (areas you were in).
Who or what created all of that? There was an experience of being separate from the people and objects in your dream but can you say that those objects and people were NOT created by your mind? The mind-stuff created the illusion that you existed in the dream separate from other people and objects and you had various experiences. However, when you wake up, you find that that dream was merely an illusion. Such is the nature of what we call "reality" (this world) and what the wise ones call unreal (maya).
End of story.
New Member
Pranaam TatTvamAsi
Yes i had dreams and they mostly correlate with what you said.
I can with certainity say that they are creations of Mind.Who or what created all of that? There was an experience of being separate from the people and objects in your dream but can you say that those objects and people were NOT created by your mind?
Wrong.The dream was a reality.Dream is just that ; a dream.One says i dreamt going to such and such places.The mind-stuff created the illusion that you existed in the dream separate from other people and objects and you had various experiences. However, when you wake up, you find that that dream was merely an illusion.
I am typing this post on hdf forum.It is real.Tomorrow satay may delete this post and the message may no longer be available but still it is a reality.Such is the nature of what we call "reality" (this world) and what the wise ones call unreal (maya).
.
If i didnt hit the post button but still claim to have posted that message then i am under illusion.
~*~*~*~*~
Namaste
Statement ONE is clearly written by someone who does NOT identify with Brahman (which happens to be the majority of people).
"I am typing, ....but this is a reality" is a true statement for the one who is typing.
Because the one-who-is-typing is Non-Brahman, anAtmA. This anAtmA is mind, is part of (a character in) the dream. Obviously it is all real for the characters in the dream. Not for the ONE WHO is seeing the dream i.e. Brahman
Do we all agree that MahAVishnu dreamed up this world ? "He glanced over Prakrti" ?
What's wrong Radhe, why do you look so worried ?
Lord, We ... left Prakrti behind ! ..... We forgot ?
No, My Love, Prakrti cannot go with Us, she has work to do. If She does not spread the MAyA-net MAyAJAl, Our dream will end.
Look at those - dream-jivas, dream-mountains .... how breath-taking....
--------
Statement 2 shows what is PrAtibhAsic.
--------
My 2 cents : Those who
>> feel contempt, disgust, over Advaita
>> think it is demonic
>> apply the kerosene logic (someone asked an Advaita Guru "why don't you drink poison ?" not knowing they are addressing Guru's body, not Guru who is Brahman)
>> Feel teaching it is futile
>> are instructed to stay away from it by Guru (this is easiest)
should leave Advaita alone. and not look into it at all.
Advaita is not for them.
"Why teach it ?"
Only the ones who can answer this positively, appreciate the why, may answer that , and only sincere seekers of this VidyA will obtain answers to that. They need not share the answer with those who are not ready for it.
This is my humble opinion , and which is in fact what Advaita Teachers say too.
I have no intention to hurt anyone. Please forgive any mistakes this mind may have made.
praNAm
Last edited by smaranam; 05 March 2010 at 06:14 PM.
|| Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||
Banned
Namaste ProudHindu,
Perhaps we need to define 'real' and 'unreal' explicitly; especially in context of Hindu thought.
When we say something is real, we mean it is PERMANENT. Something that is unreal is subjective, ephemeral, and or impermanent. Hence, according to Advaita, the only reality is the immutable Brahman. This can be discussed with several analogies.
First and foremost, anything that is born or created HAS to die or cease to be. This is in complete harmony with modern science. We may have realities through various experiences in several lifetimes and this is apprently the case. However, in the long run, and I mean really long run, of things, what truly remains? Our bodies? No. Our minds? No. Then what? Those seers who have transcended this state of existence (reality) tell us that there is only one thing; Brahman. Do Dvaitists posit that our jIvAs continue to exist unchanged in the shadow of the Purusha? Do Dvaitists/VisiSTadvaitists claim the individuality of the soul still lingers after innumerable number of births? If this is the case, then what is the true purpose of spirituality? To be 'good'? That merely reduces the purpose of existence to another good vs. evil drama like the abrahamic cults.
Regarding your claim about making 'a post' etc. is pointless because one cab say these are events in the dream and although they have temporal and/or subjective reality, they are ultimately unreal due to their impermanence.
Another example could be a desk in front of you on which your computer sits. From our human (i.e. Limited) perspective, using our five senses we will always say that the desk is 'real', it exists etc. However, we know that the desk doesn't really exist; it is comprised of trillions of atoms arranged in a specific pattern that gives us the illusion of it's reality; this is of course thanks to modern science. Therefore, the crux of the matter, pun not intended, is PERSPECTIVE. Our understanding of basic things is grossly limited by our senses. Thus how can we really know the true nature of reality unless we transcend the instrument(s) through which we cognize this 'reality'? Is that too not subjective?
Namaskar.
Self Seeker
Namaste TTA, Smaranam and Amith,
I must admire your efforts in engaging in this (futile) discussion. You all must be aware that Advaita philosophy is difficult to understand & is not for everyone.
I don't say that you should not engage but be ready to feel disappointed in the end. It is good to see that at least the language is still civil.
OM
"Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"
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