Namaste everyone,
In another thread titled "does not exist..." under Science and Religion section, one of the honorable HDF members claimed that in the Bhagavad Gita Sri Krishna himself tells that varna is based on birth. So i took the liberty of starting a new thread in order to refute the claims. The moderator can remove this thread if it violates any rules since the thread being referred is under admin review.
here is the actual quote
"Quote: Sanjaya said
Secondly, I believe that your portrayal of the Hindu varna system is not accurate.
Nara replied:
It is here that I think I am on most firm ground. The Moguls are not to blame. The English are not to blame. Hindus, and the upper caste in particular, have to stand up and take responsibility and make amends.
Lord Sri Krishna in Srimat BG, with what he said and what he did not say, clearly indicates Varna is inherited by birth. Among Arjuna’s fears was that the war will result in the women being unprotected and consequently get raped, which will then result in Varna sangraha. Arjuna cites clan elders as the source of his views.
So, this was the prevalent thinking at that time, namely, if women get raped, varna sangharaha will result. This can be so only if Varna results from birth. In the succeeding 17 chapters, Lord Sri Krishna gives answers to many of Arjuna’s questions, never once does he dissuade him of this view. But Lord Sri Krishna goes even further. In chapter 9, he says, even the ones of sinful birth, such as vaishya, sudra and women, can attain moksham by surrendering to him, so surely Arjuna of punya birth certainly can. So, Lord Sri Krishna clearly teaches that Varna results from birth which itself is determined by punya and papa.
So, if BG is to be believed, then for Lord Sri Krishna, varana is birth based. If you visit kamakoti.org, there is a full chapter on this question affirming that varna/jati is based strictly on birth. This is a core value of the Vedic religion that we call Hinduism today.
If you look at scientific evidence gleaned from archeology, DNA, etc. it is clear that there is no pure varna, everything is mixed up. As you say, there have been movements across the varna lines. But that is science. Religious doctrine requires birth based Varna purity and an elaborate scheme of punishments are stipulated for transgressors. Further, the present day keepers of Brahmin orthodoxy still maintain they can trace their pure genealogy back to the vedic rishees. What this shows, I leave it to you.
"
The actual verse where Sri Krishna speaks about the Varnashrama is Chapter 4 verse 13 which states
"cātur-varṇyaḿ mayā sṛṣṭaḿ
guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
tasya kartāram api māḿ
viddhy akartāram avyayam
"
translation
"According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me. And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable."
Here clearly Sri Krishna states the principle of the varna system which is based totally on guna(modes) and Karma.
Nowhere has Sri Krishna mentioned the word janana(birth).
"It is here that I think I am on most firm ground.
Lord Sri Krishna in Srimat BG, with what he said and what he did not say, clearly indicates Varna is inherited by birth.
So, if BG is to be believed, then for Lord Sri Krishna, varana is birth based"
I think this verse is enough to refute all the above claims. please feel free to refute in case anyone thinks the above verse does not convey what it already has.
meaning of the Sanskrit words
cātuḥ-varṇyam — the four divisions of human society; mayā — by Me; sṛṣṭam — created; guṇa — of quality; karma — and work; vibhāgaśaḥ — in terms of division; tasya — of that; kartāram — the Creator; api — although; mām — Me; viddhi — you may know; akartāram — as the nondoer; avyayam — unchangeable.
Best Regards,
mukunda
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