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Thread: Caste System

  1. #1
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    Caste System

    Namaste,

    The Caste system within Hinduism has always been a hot topic. There are conflicting views from even the learned Acharyas on this issue.

    Question is who actually benefited from this caste system ? The Brahmins ?? If that is so, then why a large number of Brahmins are living in abject poverty today ? No land, no business, no power and set against all laws of the land against their interests on the pretext that their forefathers exploited the so-called dalits ... how much is it true and how much is it fabricated with vested political interests ??

    Your views ?

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  2. #2
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    Re: Caste System

    namaste Devotee.

    Some points from the article 'Understanding Caste' by subhASh kAk:
    http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/cas3.pdf

    Х As example consider the Brahmin caste. Books by Indologists routinely translate this into priest. But in reality priests have had very low status in India. To give the extreme example, the Mahabrahmin priests, who supervise funeral services, have been "treated much like untouchables". The reality of status is highly paradoxical; the brahmin is respected if he renounces his expected function. The reality runs counter to the claims of generations of Indologists.

    Х The word varna is from ancient Sanskritic theory and it has no real relevance; the word jati properly denotes what may be termed as a group bound by customs and traditions. The dynamics between the jatis has been influenced a great deal by historical and political factors. During the periods of economic growth, the jatis have been relatively open-ended; during periods of hardships the jatis have tended to draw in for the sake of survival.

    Х It is generally agreed that in the ancient Aryan society the varnas were functional groupings and not closed endogamous birth-descent groups. Basham (1967, p.148) suggests that the jati system in its modern form developed very late. The Chinese scholar Hsuan Tsang in the seventh century was not aware of it. As a response to historical events one might then credit the emergence of the modern jati system to the next fundamental change in the Indian polity that occurred with the invasions of the Turks.

    Х If one limits oneself to an analysis of the term jati, one would see that its implications have varied with history. Many scholars believe that the system of jati that we have now emerged only about a thousand years ago. If we accept that view then this emergence was perhaps a response to the catastrophic disruption to legal and political institutions caused by the Turkish invasions. With the destruction of the previous political order, different occupational communities created their own systems of justice and governance. In this situation, a local social structure developed which centered about the dominant community.

    Х Although jatis may pay lip service to the Brahmin as an intermediary to the gods when it comes to ritual, each caste considers itself to be the highest. If the Brahmins were to be accepted as the highest caste then other castes would have no hesitation in giving their daughters to the Brahmins. But in reality they do not. The Rajputs consider the Brahmins to be other-wordly or plain beggars; the traders consider the Brahmins to be impractical; and so on. In classical Sanskrit plays the fool is always a Brahmin. In other words, each different community has internalized a different outlook on life but these outlooks cannot be placed in any hierarchical ordering. The internalized images of the other must, by its very nature, be a gross simplification and it will never conform exactly to reality.

    Х It has been claimed that the castes are separate but interdependent hereditary groups of occupational specialists. Thus Dumont postulates that the principle of purity-impurity keeps the segments separate from one another. In this system each jati closes its boundaries to lower jatis, refusing them the privileges of intermarriage and other contacts defined to be polluting. Facts belie the Dumont theory: Indian Muslims and Christians also have castes. The eighteenth century German society was divided into princes, nobles, burghers, peasants and serfs between whom no marriage other than morganatic was possible. Korea and Japan also had the practice of untouchability.

    **********

    Brahmins have never been a socially or politically dominant varNa or jAti in ancient or modern India, although their advice was sought and they were respected. Surely, orthodox brahmins have always practiced--many do it even today--avoidance of tactile contact--not just with strangers of other castes but with their own family members--during the occasions that require extreme maDi-AchAram--ceremonial purity for their religious observances. This has been blown out of proportion by E.V.Ramasamy and his ilk in the political parties DK/DMK in Tamilnadu for their own poliltical gains. In reality, by their sattvic nature, brahmins have not ill-treated the dalits in public life.

    The same parties today are unmindful to prevent for fear of loss of votes, the other Hindu castes openly and publicly practising untouchability against the Dalits in the Tamilnadu villages, by such practices as using separate tea glasses in tea-stalls, not allowing the Dalits to visit the village temple run by the higher caste people, draw water from the community well, and even threatening the dalits if they seek to field their own candidate in a local election to the village panchayat.
    рд░рддреНрдирд╛рдХрд░рдзреМрддрдкрджрд╛рдВ рд╣рд┐рдорд╛рд▓рдпрдХрд┐рд░реАрдЯрд┐рдиреАрдореН ред
    рдмреНрд░рд╣реНрдорд░рд╛рдЬрд░реНрд╖рд┐рд░рд░рддреНрдирд╛рдвреНрдпрд╛рдВ рд╡рдиреНрджреЗ рднрд╛рд░рддрдорд╛рддрд░рдореН рее

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  3. #3

    Re: Caste System

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste,

    The Caste system within Hinduism has always been a hot topic. There are conflicting views from even the learned Acharyas on this issue.

    Question is who actually benefited from this caste system ? The Brahmins ?? If that is so, then why a large number of Brahmins are living in abject poverty today ? No land, no business, no power and set against all laws of the land against their interests on the pretext that their forefathers exploited the so-called dalits ... how much is it true and how much is it fabricated with vested political interests ??

    Your views ?

    OM
    Namaste Devoteeji
    Certainly your question requires a good attention , but I have thought a humorous answer as Goswamiji describesЕ.
    Aisehu peer vihasi tei goi , chor nari jimi pragat na roi

    Just as wife of a thief does not weep openly , I mean if you catch He , it will be called misdeed and if it is She then it will be Body need .

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    Re: Caste System

    namaste devoteeji,
    i may be too young to talk abt this.
    however,i guess someone has said that this whole varna/caste system is not free from flaws.in vishnu puran,there's a story:some sages go to vedavyas to ask the fate of people of kali yuga.vyas bhagwan says that shudras and women are blessed indeed!people of kali yuga are blessed indeed!a shudra,by serving with a pure heart alone can find his way out.so a woman by dedicating to her husband.in kali yuga,just by chanting the lord's name,people are freed from ignorance.
    yes,being born as brahmin is considered as better janma,no denying that.but only a fool takes pride in that.the point is,the varna system is the best form of s/m on this planet.people talk a lot about equality and stuff.if there is any alternative to this s/m,i'd like to see.
    i guess,we are trying to get something out which was never there in the first place.why do we kill/use animals?why do we ride on horses?thats really a shameful thing,innit?but then,instead of wasting time in trying to see the 'rationale' in all these,we may accept the shastras as dharma.
    nothing is perfect and free from flaws.the only thing we should hold,i think,is 'karmanyevaadhikarasthe..'
    Sarva DharmAAn Parityajya

  5. #5

    Cool Re: Caste System

    Namaste All

    Devotee G, I think you already know about vote-bank politices
    It is all for votes that makes this system in wrong direction alive

    Varna belongs to deeds, castes belongs ot politics

    caste politices give birth right to reservation, it have nothing to do with social justice.

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    Re: Caste System

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste,

    The Caste system within Hinduism has always been a hot topic. There are conflicting views from even the learned Acharyas on this issue.

    Question is who actually benefited from this caste system ? The Brahmins ?? If that is so, then why a large number of Brahmins are living in abject poverty today ? No land, no business, no power and set against all laws of the land against their interests on the pretext that their forefathers exploited the so-called dalits ... how much is it true and how much is it fabricated with vested political interests ??

    Your views ?

    OM
    I agree with you. But the caste system was not created, it is a misunderstood form of varna system which was created by misunderstanding.
    Last edited by upsydownyupsy mv ss; 05 April 2010 at 03:34 AM. Reason: thought i added more

  7. #7

    Re: Caste System

    Even if all of us decide to give up caste system, the beneficiaries of the caste based reservation will not agree. Hence caste will continue whether we like it or not.

    We have to respect all castes and treat all castes are equals. It will definitely create a new environment without any discrimination in future

  8. #8
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    Re: Caste System

    namaste everyone.

    Here is a shloka about sAmAnya dharma, which is common to everyone:

    kShamA satyaM damaH ShaucaM dAnamindriya saMyamaH|
    ahiMsa guru SHuShruSHA tIrthanusaraNaM dayA||
    ArjavaM lobhaShUnyatvaM devabrAhmaNapUjanam |
    anabhyAsUya cha tathA dharmaH sAmAnya uchyate||

    [forbearance, truthfulness, self-restraint, cleanliness, charity, control of senses; non-viloence, service of the elders, pilgrimages, compassion; keeping vows, freedom from avarice, worship of deities; absence of jealousy - are duties common to all.]

    Anyone has any idea about the source of this shloka? I came across it in a Russian Website: http://www.sanatanadharma.udm.net/text/gitarthasamg.doc
    рд░рддреНрдирд╛рдХрд░рдзреМрддрдкрджрд╛рдВ рд╣рд┐рдорд╛рд▓рдпрдХрд┐рд░реАрдЯрд┐рдиреАрдореН ред
    рдмреНрд░рд╣реНрдорд░рд╛рдЬрд░реНрд╖рд┐рд░рд░рддреНрдирд╛рдвреНрдпрд╛рдВ рд╡рдиреНрджреЗ рднрд╛рд░рддрдорд╛рддрд░рдореН рее

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  9. #9
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    Re: Caste System

    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    namaste everyone.

    Here is a shloka about sAmAnya dharma, which is common to everyone:

    kShamA satyaM damaH ShaucaM dAnamindriya saMyamaH|
    ahiMsa guru SHuShruSHA tIrthanusaraNaM dayA||
    ArjavaM lobhaShUnyatvaM devabrAhmaNapUjanam |
    anabhyAsUya cha tathA dharmaH sAmAnya uchyate||

    [forbearance, truthfulness, self-restraint, cleanliness, charity, control of senses; non-viloence, service of the elders, pilgrimages, compassion; keeping vows, freedom from avarice, worship of deities; absence of jealousy - are duties common to all.]

    Anyone has any idea about the source of this shloka? I came across it in a Russian Website: http://www.sanatanadharma.udm.net/text/gitarthasamg.doc
    Namaste saidevoji

    The following indicates that the above is from Vishnu Samhita. Similar Universal dharma prescription is there in Manu smriti and Kautilya arthasastra also. Some items vary.

    http://www.hinduism.co.za/dharma.htm
    Last edited by atanu; 23 July 2010 at 01:28 PM.
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  10. #10
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    Re: Caste System

    While I'm against the caste system in its current form, I do have to agree with devotee that the current state of affairs in India borders on discrimination of Brahmins. Admittedly I've never been to India and can thus not comment to intelligently. But iIt's a bit annoying to know that if I were to go to India and apply to college, I'd be given less consideration just because I'm from a Brahmin family. Yes, there has been very real discrimination against Dalits in India, and this can't be ignored. But the solution to discrimination isn't more discrimination.

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