this big bang stuff ...

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste SS,

The reality is neither "nothing" nor "something" and which is in fact, everything.

OM

lol and Thanks. So confused sounding, yet so true. Finding illogic via logic.
Wisdom.

Aum Namsivaya

[Ashvati]

Finding logic with illogic is exactly why I like zen

[upsydownyupsy mv ss]

Namaste SS,



What is "nothing" or "something" ? You/we really don't know. These are simply concepts within mental realm. The reality is neither "nothing" nor "something" and which is in fact, everything.

OM

then you agree wid me that nothing may = everything and everything not = nothing?

[devotee]

then you agree wid me that nothing may = everything and everything not = nothing?

No. That is illogical. If a = b then b must be = a.

What I meant that you need to contemplate on what you understand by the terms, "Nothing" and "Something". Can you understand this ? :

There is nothing like "nothing" or "something". These are just mental concepts. The reality is neither "nothing" nor "something" yet it is "everything".

OM

[upsydownyupsy mv ss]

I got it now, because, today was the first day I did Yog Nidra, just now. I got what you are telling. But I still say if a = b; b may not = a, I'll give you an example in maths itself. 0/0 is not = 0/0, because, 0/0 is not defined logically. Get it. Logic doesn't always win. If logic was everything, why did God present us with the right cerebrum, the left cerebrum would have been enough. I know that I'm not clear and my statement is out of logic. But, just spare it a thought.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namast� devotee,

you mention

"Nothing" = "Everything"

Let me offer the following view to perhaps expand ( not by big bang! ) the conversdation. One thing I find perfect, is the explaination of sanatkumara-ji's instructions on bhūma vidya.
This is in the chāndogya upaniṣad ( 7th chapter). He talks of fullness (bhūman�).

Without going too deep into this ( as there are multiple posts on this subject) svāmī kṛṣṇānanda offers an explanation on this matter, he says: any-thing is everything; any place is everywhere.
For me this is quite telling and profound.
It suggests that :

• any one thing is the contents/substance of anything else - homogeneous - this is what our knowledge and experience in ingoranace does not comprehend
• any place is every where due to the continuity of fullness - it is without a gap.

How can this be? because at the most subtle level the material of creation is consciousness and it is contiguous throughout.

This view is substantiated in the śiva sūtra-s, very first verse and the commentary by kṣemarāja-ji. He says , This supreme independent state of the Supreme ( God consciousness - caitanya) is the form.
Well one thinks, please finish the sentence - the form of what? The wise assist us and say kṣemarāja-ji is saying the form of every and anything.

Some think every thing cannot be nothing. I look at it this way - every thing cannot be no - thing. This is true. It is not just one thing, as that would be limiting to a thing, it is no ( one ) thing. It is every thing and hence no thing can be everything in this condition.

praṇām

words

bhūman - abundance , plenty , wealth , opulence , multitude ; some say the aggregate of all exisitng things. As a noun, this is a name of kṛṣṇa.

[devotee]

Namaste Yajvan ji,

svāmī kṛṣṇānanda offers an explanation on this matter, he says: any-thing is everything; any place is everywhere.
For me this is quite telling and profound.

Thanks for your beautiful explanation.

Swami Krsnananda's statement is very profound. This statement is really worth contemplating : "Any Place is Everywhere". I would add here :

How do we differentiate one place from the other ? By the difference between their contents and their expanse. But as in essence there is nothing which is different anywhere & there is no gap .... so, the difference ceases to exist.

It is really a beautiful profound statement. Thanks.

Dear SS,

What you are saying is illogical again. We were talking about a and b & their relationship in equality. So, once we decide to do that it is an underlying assumption that a & b are not undefined quantities. You can't deal with undefined quantities at all.

I think you are confusing this relationship with this statement : "All A are B but all B are not A." This is not expressed as "a = b but b not = a". It is something different. It talks about two sets where all elements of a set (each element is A) are in another set (all elements are called B out of which some B are equal to A) but some elements of another Set are not in Set A. That means the set containing all A is a subset of set containing all B but B has still something more than the entire set of A. It is like "all boys are humans but all humans are not boys".

OM

[upsydownyupsy mv ss]

Hmmm.... Devotee, did you get what I said about 0/0?
Everything and nothing, can you define them logically?

[devotee]

Namaste SS,

did you get what I said about 0/0?

Yes. The thing which you might be reading now ... I read that a few decades back. So, I think I understand what you say.

Everything and nothing, can you define them logically?

Forget it. If you are still interested, I have already given enough hint in my previous posts. You may try reading them again.

I am afraid, we are deviating from the central theme of this thread ... so I would stop here.

OM

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namast� devotee

Namaste Yajvan ji,

Thanks for your beautiful explanation.
Swami Krsnananda's statement is very profound. This statement is really worth contemplating : "Any Place is Everywhere". I would add here :

How do we differentiate one place from the other ? By the difference between their contents and their expanse. But as in essence there is nothing which is different anywhere & there is no gap .... so, the difference ceases to exist.

OM

perfect!

Perhaps this is why the wise talk of Brahman as wholeness (purṇatā).
That there is no break or pause - the continuity of consciousness pervades everything. Trika sees Brahman as vast (bṛhat) and all-pervading (vyāpaka). It needn't mention Existence (sattā) for that is Brahman already.

This continuum then (for the wise) allows them to see everything uniformly , with an even-ness of vision. They tell us this by saying:
sarvasarvātmakatā vapuḥ - everything (sarva) is the form (vapuḥ) of everything else (sarvātmaka)

praṇām