Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 29

Thread: Meditation and Concentration

  1. #1
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    355

    Meditation and Concentration

    Sri Ramana on meditation and Concentration

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    The teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi
    Edited by David Godman; Arthur Osborne, Kavyakantha
    G.Muni, Kurt Friedrichs, Mouni Sadhu.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Meditation and Concentration

    Sri Ramana Maharshi's insistence that awareness of the "I" thought was a pre-requisite for Self-realisation led him to the conclusion that all spiritual practices which did not incorporate this feature were indirect and inefficient:

    Sri Ramana Maharshi said "This path (attention to the ' I ' ) is the direct path; all others are indirect ways. The first leads to the Self, the others elsewhere. And even if the others do arrive at the Self it is only because they lead at the end to the first path which ultimately carries them to the goal. So, in the end, the aspirants must adopt the first path. Why not do so now? Why waste time?"

    [Note: By David Godman: That is to say, other techniques may sometimes bring one to an inner state of stillness in which self-attention or self-awareness inadvertently takes place, but it is a very roundabout way of reaching the Self. Sri Ramana maintained that other techniques could only take one to the place where self-enquiry starts and so he never endorsed them unless he felt that particular questioners were unable or unwilling to adopt self-enquiry.]

    Sri Ramana Maharshi said: "The goal is the same for the one who meditates [on an object] and the one who practises self-enquiry. One attains stillness through meditation, the other through knowledge. One strives to attain something; the other seeks the one who strives to attain. The former takes a longer time, but in the end attains the Self."

    [Note: Although Sri Ramana vigorously defended his views on self-enquiry he never insisted that anyone change their beliefs or practices and, if he was unable to convince his followers to take up self-enquiry, he would happily give advice on other methods.]

    Question by a disciple: "There is more pleasure in dhyana (concentration) than in sensual enjoyments. Yet the mind runs after the sensual enjoyments and does not seek the former. Why is it so?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi: "Pleasure or pain are aspects of the mind only. Our essential nature is happiness. But we have forgotten the Self and imagine that the body or the mind is the Self. It is that wrong identity that gives rise to misery. What is to be done? This mental tendency is very ancient and has continued for innumerable past births.Hence it has grown strong. That must go before the essential nature, happiness, asserts itself.."

    Question: "It is said that the Self is beyond the mind and yet the realisation is with the mind. The mind cannot think it. It cannot be thought of by the mind and the mind alone can realise it. How are these contradictions to be reconciled?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi: "Atman (Self) is realised with mrita manas (dead mind), that is, mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward. Then the mind sees its own source and becomes that (the Self). It is not as the subject perceiving an object.

    When the room is dark, a lamp is necessary to illumine, and eyes are necessary to recognise objects. But when the sun has risen there is no need of a lamp to see objects. To see the sun no lamp is necessary, it is enough that you turn your eyes towards the self-luminous sun.

    Similarly with the mind. To see objects the reflected light of the mind is necessary. To see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it. Then mind loses itself and Heart shines forth.

    The essence of mind is only awareness or consciousness. When the ego, however, dominates it, it functions as the reasoning, thinking or sensing faculty. The cosmic mind, being not limited by the ego, has nothing separate from itself and is therefore only aware.

    Again people often ask how the mind is controlled. I say to them, 'Show me the mind and then you will know what to do'. The fact is that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts. How can you extinguish it by the thought of doing so or by a desire? Your thoughts and desires are part and parcel of the mind. The mind is simply fattened by new thoughts rising up. Therefore it is foolish to attempt to kill the mind by means of the mind. The only way of doing it to find its source and hold on to it. The mind will then fade away of its own accord.

    Yoga teaches CHITTA VRITTI NIRODHA (control of the activities of the mind). But I say ATMA VICHARA (self-investigation). This is the practical way. Chitta Vritti Nirodha is brought about in sleep, swoon, or by starvation. As soon as the cause is withdrawn there is a recrudescence of thoughts. Of what use is it then? In the state of stupor there is peace and no misery.But misery recurs when the stupor is removed. So Nirodha (control) is useless and cannot be of lasting benefit.

    How then can the benefit be made lasting? It is by finding the cause of misery. Misery is due to the perception of objects. If they are not there, there will be no contingent thoughts and so misery is wiped off.

    'How will objects cease to be'? is the next question. The sruti (scriptures) and the sages say that the objects are only mental creations. They have no substantive being. Investigate the matter and ascertain the truth of the statement. The result will be the conclusion that the objective world is in the subjective consciousness.The Self is thus the only reality which permeates and also envelopes the world. Since there is no duality, no thoughts will arise to disturb your peace. This is realisation of the Self. The Self is eternal and so also is realisation.

    Abhyasa (spiritual practice) consists in withdrawal within the Self every time you are disturbed by thought. It is not concentration or destruction of the mind but withdrawal into the Self."

    Question: "Why is concentration ineffective?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi: "To ask the mind to kill the mind is like making the thief the policeman. He will go with you and pretend to catch the thief, but nothing will be gained. So you must turn inward and see from where the mind rises and then it will cease to exist."

    Question: "In turning the mind inwards, are we not still employing the mind?'

    Sri Ramana Maharshi:"Of course we are employing the mind. It is well known and admitted that only with the help of the mind can the mind be killed. But instead setting about saying there is a mind, and I want to kill it, you begin to seek the source of the mind, and you find the mind does not exist at all. The mind, turned outwards, results in thoughts and objects. Turned inwards, it becomes itself the Self."


    Samadhi

    Question: "What is samadhi?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi: "The state in which the unbroken experience of existence-consciousness is attained by the still mind, alone is samadhi. That still mind which is adorned with the attainment of the limitless Supreme Self, alone is the reality of God.

    When the mind is in communion with the Self in darkness, it is called nidra (sleep), that is the immersion of the mind in ignorance. Immersion in a conscious or wakeful state is called samadhi. Samadhi is continuous inherence in the Self in a waking state. Nidra or sleep is also inherence in the Self but in an unconscious state. In SAHAJ SAMADHI the communion is continuous.

    The immersion of the mind in the Self, but without its destruction, is known as Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi. In this state one is not free from vasanas and so one does not therefore attain mukti (liberation). Only after the vasanas have been destroyed can one attain liberation."

    Question: "When can one practice Sahaj Samadhi?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi:"Even from the beginning. Even though one practises Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi for years together, if one has not rooted out the vasanas one will not attain liberation.

    Question: "Is samadhi, the eighth stage of raja yoga, the same as the samadhi you speak of?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi:"In yoga the term samadhi refers to some kind of trance and there are various kinds of samadhi. But the samadhi I speak of is different. It is SAHAJ SAMADHI. From here you have samadhan (steadiness) and you remain calm and composed even while you are active. You realise that you are moved by the deeper real Self within. You have no worries, no anxieties, no cares, for you come to realise that there is nothing belonging to you. You know that everything is done by something with which you are in conscious union.

    Question: "If this sahaj samadhi is the most desirable condition, is there no need for nirvikalpa samadhi?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi: "The nirvikalpa samadhi of raja yoga may have its use. But in Jnana yoga this sahaj sthiti (natural state) or sahaj nishtha (abidance in the natural state) itself is the nirvikalpa state. In this natural state, the mind is free from doubts. It has no need to swing between alternatives of possibilities and probabilities.It sees no vikalpas (differences) of any kind. It is sure of the truth because it feels the presence of the real. Even when it is active, it knows it is active in the reality, the Self, the Supreme Being."

    Question: "How can one function in the world in such a state?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi: "One who accustoms himself naturally to meditation and enjoys the bliss of meditation will not lose his samadhi state whatever external work he does, whatever thoughts may come to him. That is Sahaja Nirvikalpa. Sahaj Nirvikalpa is Nasa Manas (total destruction of the mind). Those who are in the laya samadhi state (a trance like state in which the mind is temporarily in abeyance) will have to bring the mind back under control from time to time. If the mind is destroyed, as it is in sahaj samadhi, it will never slide down from their high state.

    Question:"Is samadhi a blissful or ecstatic state?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi: "In samadhi itself there is only perfect peace. Ecstasy comes when the mind revives at the end of samadhi. In devotion the ecstasy comes first.. It is manifested by tears of joy, hair standing on end, and vocal stumbling. When the ego finally dies and the Sahaj is won, these symptoms and the ecstasies cease."

    Siddhis (Super natural powers)

    Question:"On realising samadhi, does not one obtain siddhis (super natural powers) also?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi:"In order to display siddhis, there must be others to recognise them. That means, there is no jnana in the one who displays them. Therefore, siddhis are not worth a thought. Jnana alone is to be aimed at and gained."

    Turiya-the fourth state

    Question: "Is samadhi the same as Turiya, the fourth state?"

    Sri Ramana Maharshi: "Samadhi, Turiya and nirvikalpa all have the same implication, that is, awareness of the Self.

    Turiya literally means the fourth state, the Supreme Consciousness, as distinct from the other three states of consciousness: waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep. The fourth state is eternal and the other three states come and go in it. In Turiya there is the awareness that the mind has merged in its source, the Heart, and is quiescent there, although some thoughts still impinge on it and the senses are still somewhat active. In nirvikalpa, the senses are inactive and thoughts are totally absent. Hence the experience of Pure Consciousness in this state is intense and blissful. Turiya is obtainable in savikalpa samadhi."
    Last edited by atanu; 19 September 2006 at 03:57 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    355

    The Summary of teachings

    The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi

    HAPPINESS

    All beings desire happiness always, happiness without a tinge of sorrow. At the same time everybody loves himself best. The cause for love is only happiness. So, that happiness must lie in one. Further that happiness is daily experienced by everyone in sleep, when there is no mind. To attain that natural happiness one must know oneself. For that, Self-Enquiry, 'Who am I?' is the chief means.

    CONSCIOUSNESS

    Existence or Consciousness is the only reality. Consciousness plus waking we call waking. Consciousness plus sleep we call sleep. Consciousness plus dream, we call dream. Consciousness is the screen on which all the pictures come and go. The screen is real, the pictures are mere shadows on it.

    MIND

    Mind is a wonderful force inherent in the Self.

    That which arises in this body as 'I' is the mind.

    When the subtle mind emerges through the brain and the senses, the gross names and forms are cognized. When it remains in the Heart names and forms disappear... If the mind remains in the Heart, the 'I' or the ego which is the source of all thoughts will go, and the Self, the Real, Eternal 'I' alone will shine. Where there is not the slightest trace of the ego, there is the Self.

    "WHO AM I?" - ENQUIRY

    For all thoughts the source is the 'I' thought.

    The mind will merge only by Self-enquiry 'Who am I?' The thought 'Who am l?' will destroy all other thoughts and finally kill itself also. If other thoughts arise, without trying to complete them, one must enquire to whom did this thought arise. What does it matter how many thoughts arise? As each thought arises one must be watchful and ask to whom is this thought occurring. The answer will be 'to me'. If you enquire 'Who am I?' the mind will return to its source (or where it issued from). The thought which arose will also submerge. As you practise like this more and more, the power of the mind to remain as its source is increased.

    SURRENDER

    There are two ways of achieving surrender. One is looking into the source of the 'I' and merging into that source. The other is feeling 'I am helpless myself God alone is all powerful and except throwing myself completely on Him, there is no other means of safety for me', and thus gradually developing the conviction that God alone exists and the ego does not count. Both methods lead to the same goal. Complete surrender is another name for jnana or liberation.

    THE THREE STATES: WAKING,DREAM AND SLEEP

    There is no difference between the dream and the waking state except that the dream is short and the waking long. Both are the result of the mind. Our real state is beyond the waking, dream and sleep states, called turiya.

    GRACE AND GURU

    I have not said that a Guru is not necessary. But a Guru need not always be in human form. First a person thinks that he is an inferior and that there is a superior, all-knowing, all powerful God who controls his own and the world's destiny and worships him or does Bhakti. When he reaches a certain stage and becomes fit for enlightenment, the same God whom he was worshipping comes as Guru and leads him on. That Guru comes only to tell him 'That God is within yourself. Dive within and realize'. God, Guru and the Self are the same.

    SELF-REALIZATION

    The state we call realization is simply being oneself, not knowing anything or becoming anything. If one has realized, he is that which alone is, and which alone has always been. He cannot describe that state. He can only be That. Of course we loosely talk of self-realization for want of a better term.

    That which 'Is' is peace. All that we need do is to keep quiet. Peace is our real nature. We spoil it. What is required is that we cease to spoil it.

    HEART

    In the centre of the cavity of the Heart the sole Brahman shines by itself as the atman (Self) in the feeling of 'I'-'I'. Reach the Heart by diving within yourself, either with control of breath, or with thought concentrated on the quest of Self. You will thus get fixed in the Self.

    RENUNCIATION

    Asked 'How does a grihastha (householder) fare in the scheme of Moksha (liberation)?' Bhagavan said, 'Why do you think you are a grihastha? If you go out as sanyasi (ascetic), a similar thought that you are a sanyasi will haunt you. Whether you continue in the household or renounce it and go to the forest, your mind goes with you. The ego is the source of all thought. It creates the body and the world and makes you think you are a grihastha . If you renounce the world it will only substitute the thought sanyasi for grihastha and the environments in the forest for those of the household. But the mental obstacles will still be there. They even increase in the new surroundings. There is no help in change of environment. The obstacle is the mind. It must be got over whether at home or in the forest. If you can do it in the forest, why not at home? Therefore, why change your environment? Your efforts can be made even now - in whatever environment you are now. The environment will never change according to your desire'. 10

    FATE AND FREEWILL

    Freewill and destiny are ever existent. Destiny is the result of past action; it concerns the body. Let the body act as may suit it. Why are you concerned about it? Why do you pay attention to it. Freewill and destiny last as long as the body lasts. But jnana transcends both. The Self is beyond knowledge and ignorance. Whatever happens, happens as the result of one's past actions, of divine will and of other factors.

    There are only two ways to conquer destiny or be independent of it. One is to enquire for whom is this destiny and discover that only the ego is bound by destiny and not the Self and that the ego is non-existent.

    The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, by realizing one's helplessness and saying all the time, 'Not I, but Thou oh Lord' and giving up all sense of 'I' and mine, and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you. Complete effacement of the ego is necessary to conquer destiny, whether you achieve this effacement through self-enquiry or bhakti marga (Path).

    JNANI

    A jnani has attained Liberation even while alive, here and now. It is immaterial to him as to how, where and when he leaves the body. Some jnanis may appear to suffer, others may be in samadhi; still others may disappear from sight before death. But that makes no difference to their jnana. Such suffering is apparent, seems real to the onlooker, but not felt by the jnani, for he has already transcended the mistaken identity of the Self with the body.

    The jnani does not think he is the body. He does not even see the body. He sees only the Self in the body. If the body is not there, but only the Self, the question of its disappearing in any form does not arise.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    355

    David Godman explains enquiry

    Adapted from an interview of David Godman, a disciple of Ramana

    -------------------------------------------------
    When the topic of Ramana Maharshi's teachings comes up, most people think of self-inquiry, the practice of asking oneself 'Who am I?' What is it?



    People who came to Sri Ramana usually asked: 'What do I have to do to get enlightened?' One of his standard replies was the Tamil phrase 'Summa iru'. 'Summa' means 'quiet' or 'still' and 'iru' is the imperative of both the verb to be and the verb to stay. So, you can translate this as 'Be quiet,' Be still,' Stay quiet,' 'Remain still,' and so on. This was his primary advice.

    However, he knew that most people could not naturally stay quiet. If such people asked for a method, a technique, he would often recommend a practice known as self-inquiry. This is probably what he is most famous for.

    Sri Ramana taught that the individual self is an unreal, imaginary entity that persists because we never properly investigate its true nature. The sense of 'I', the feeling of being a particular person who inhabits a particular body, only persists because we continuously identify ourselves with thoughts, beliefs, emotions, objects, and so on. The 'I' never stands alone by itself; it always exists in association: 'I am John,' 'I am angry,' 'I am a lawyer,' 'I am a woman,' etc. These identifications are automatic and unconscious. We don't make them through volition on a moment-to-moment basis. They are just the unchallenged assumptions that lie behind all our experiences and habits. Sri Ramana asks us to disentangle ourselves from all these associations by putting full attention on the subject 'I', and in doing so, prevent it from attaching itself to any ideas, beliefs, thoughts and emotions that come its way.

    The classic way of doing this is to start with some experienced feeling or thought. I may be thinking about what I am going to eat for dinner, for example. So, I ask myself, 'Who is anticipating dinner?' and the answer, whether you express it or not, is 'I am'. Then you ask yourself, 'Who am I? Who or what is this ''I'' that is waiting for its next meal?' This is not an invitation to undertake an intellectual analysis of what is going on in the mind; it is instead a device for transferring attention from the object of thought - the forthcoming dinner - to the subject, the person who is having that particular thought. In that moment simply abide as the 'I' itself and try to experience subjectively what it is when it is shorn of all identifications and associations with things and thoughts. It will be a fleeting moment for most people because it is the nature of the mind to keep itself busy. You will soon find yourself in a new train of thought, a new series of associations. Each time this happens, ask yourself, 'Who is daydreaming?' 'Who is worried about her doctor's bill?' 'Who is thinking about the weather?' and so on. The answer in each case will be 'I'. Hold onto that experience of the unassociated 'I' for as long as you can. Watch how it arises, and, more importantly, watch where it subsides to when there are no thoughts to engage with.

    This is the next stage of the inquiry. If you can isolate the feeling of 'I' from all the things that it habitually attaches itself to, you will discover that it starts to disappear. As it subsides and becomes more and more attenuated, one begins to experience the emanations of peace and joy that are, in reality, your own natural state. You don't normally experience these because your busy mind keeps them covered up, but they are there all the time, and when you begin to switch the mind off, that's what you experience.

    It's a kind of mental archaeology. The gold, the treasure, the inherent happiness of your own true state, is in there, waiting for you, but you don't look for it. You are not even aware of it, because all you see, all you know, are the layers that have accumulated on top of it. Your digging tool is this continuous awareness of 'I'. It takes you away from the thoughts, and back to your real Self, which is peace and happiness. Sri Ramana once compared this process to a dog that holds onto the scent of its master in order to track him down. Following the unattached 'I' will take you home, back to the place where no individual 'I' has ever existed.

    This is self-inquiry, and this is the method by which it should be practiced. Hold on to the sense of 'I', and whenever you get distracted by other things revert to it again. I should mention that this was not something that Sri Ramana said should be done as a meditation practice. It is something that should be going on inside you all the time, irrespective of what the body is doing.

    Though Sri Ramana said that this was the most effective tool for realizing the Self, it must be said that very few people actually achieved this goal. For most of us the mind is just too stubborn to be overcome by this or any other technique. However, the effort put into self-inquiry is never wasted. In fact, it's a win-win situation for most people; either you get enlightened, or you just get peaceful and happy.


    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    64
    Posts
    7,590
    Rep Power
    381

    Re: David Godman explains enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    . Hold on to the sense of 'I', and whenever you get distracted by other things revert to it again. ...For most of us the mind is just too stubborn to be overcome by this or any other technique.
    Om

    Namste Atanu (et.al)
    please advise Atanu if this should be put in a new post... I respect your decision on this and can adjust accordingly.

    Regarding Techniques and the (Stubborn) Mind
    Another notion is the following - This is a conversation between Siva and Parviti and called Vigyan BhairavaTantra.


    She asks Shiva, what is your reality? What is this wonder-filled universe? What constitutes seed? Who centers the universal wheel? What is this life beyond form pervading forms? How may we enter it fully, above space and time... Siva answers,

    Sutra 1
    Radiant One, this experience may dawn between two breaths.
    After breath comes in (down) and just before turning up (out) - the beneficence.

    Sutra 2
    As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves up to down -through both these turns, realize.

    Sutra 3
    Or, whenever in-breath and out-breath fuse, at this instant touch the energy-less, energy-filled center


    This is a beautiful technique that is so simple (hence its power and elegance). We also find a parallel technique in the Siva Sutras, Section 3 or the Third Awakening.

    It's based on the simple premise of the gap or junction point, sandhi. We find this gap in the day, morning twilight to day, day to evening. We find this gap in the grahas from one one rasi to another. We find this gap in our selves - from wake to dream , from dream to Sleep. And we find it in our breath. as as pour one breath into another, there is a sight gap between the two. This gap this sandhi, or junction is where one can experience pure consciousness, stillness, turiya.

    Is this the only way... nope. Lots more. Yet this technique is so simple, as we all breath and are intimate with the breath-prana. Now this breath can assist us. We breathe ~ 10,000 breaths a day ( in-and-out = 1 full breath). We by His Grace are given 10,000 chances to touch this Consciousness.

    Why is this an attractive technique? the mind does not revolt! Without prana the mind is not there... So , mind respects prana.

    If someone asked, 'who would you recommend this is for?' I would recommend this to the new sadhu or the one practicing for years. It compliments ones sadhana nicely.



    Om Namah Sivaya
    Last edited by yajvan; 26 October 2007 at 12:36 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #5
    Join Date
    April 2006
    Location
    NY State
    Age
    59
    Posts
    552
    Rep Power
    85

    Re: Meditation and Concentration

    Namaste,

    The breath is the unification of inside and outside, when breathing in and out is simultaneous, there is no difference.

    ZN
    yaireva patanaM dravyaiH siddhistaireva choditA .
    shrI kauladarshane chApi bhairaveNa mahAtmanA .

    It is revealed in the sacred doctrine of Kula and by the great Bhairava, that the perfection is achieved by that very means by which fall occurs.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    355

    Re: David Godman explains enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Namste Atanu (et.al)
    please advise Atanu if this should be put in a new post... I respect your decision on this and can adjust accordingly.

    Regarding Techniques and the (Stubborn) Mind
    Another notion is the following - This is a conversation between Siva and Parviti and called Vigyan BhairavaTantra.


    She asks Shiva, what is your reality? What is this wonder-filled universe? What constitutes seed? Who centers the universal wheel? What is this life beyond form pervading forms? How may we enter it fully, above space and time... Siva answers,

    Sutra 1
    Radiant One, this experience may dawn between two breaths.
    After breath comes in (down) and just before turning up (out) - the beneficence.

    Sutra 2
    As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves up to down -through both these turns, realize.

    Sutra 3
    Or, whenever in-breath and out-breath fuse, at this instant touch the energy-less, energy-filled center


    This is a beautiful technique that is so simple (hence its power and elegance). We also find a parallel technique in the Siva Sutras, Section 3 or the Third Awakening.

    ---

    Om Namah Sivaya
    Namaste Yajvan and ZN,

    Yes, this is a beautiful and very easy way. And this is one process Ramana has also taught as perliminary to enquiry -- in order to first stabilise the mind in tranquility. Many sadhakas may be practisicing Anuloma-Viloma, which is essentially the same. Lord Krishna teaches sacrifice of out-breath in in-breath and vice-versa. Kak (Crow) Bhusunda explains this technique to Sage Vashista in Yoga Vashista beautifully.

    I have experience of this and one surely comes to know the pure limitless, so-called empty being who is actually breathing -- and at that instance of peace, if one can enquire "Who is breathing?", it is enlightening. One knows oneself as the peace -- the so-called empty being who is limitless -- the pure intelligence. The hint of this is there in deep sleep.

    The final question remains "Who breathes?". Who is at the center of in-breath and out-breath? Language is inadequate here.

    I am thankful to you that this subject has come up.

    Om Namah Shivaya
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    355

    Re: David Godman explains enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Namste Atanu (et.al)
    ----
    Why is this an attractive technique? the mind does not revolt! Without prana the mind is not there... So , mind respects prana.
    -
    Om Namah Sivaya
    Namaste Yajvan,

    I think I have different idea here. It is the Self, which has Aham (mind), which has the Prana.

    This is implicit in the "the one who pavate".
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    64
    Posts
    7,590
    Rep Power
    381

    Re: David Godman explains enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Regarding Techniques and the (Stubborn) Mind
    Another notion is the following - This is a conversation between Siva and Parviti and called Vigyan BhairavaTantra.


    She asks Shiva, what is your reality? What is this wonder-filled universe? What constitutes seed? Who centers the universal wheel? What is this life beyond form pervading forms? How may we enter it fully, above space and time... Siva answers,

    Sutra 1
    Radiant One, this experience may dawn between two breaths.
    After breath comes in (down) and just before turning up (out) - the beneficence.

    Sutra 2
    As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves up to down -through both these turns, realize.

    Sutra 3
    Or, whenever in-breath and out-breath fuse, at this instant touch the energy-less, energy-filled center


    This is a beautiful technique that is so simple (hence its power and elegance). We also find a parallel technique in the Siva Sutras, Section 3 or the Third Awakening.


    Namaste,



    Sutra 4
    Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in (down) and stopped
    -
    in such universal pause, one's small self vanishes. This is difficult only for the impure.



    Om Namah Sivaya
    Last edited by yajvan; 26 October 2007 at 12:38 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  9. #9
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    64
    Posts
    7,590
    Rep Power
    381

    Re: David Godman explains enquiry

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by atanu View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    I think I have different idea here. It is the Self, which has Aham (mind), which has the Prana. This is implicit in the "the one who pavate".

    Namste atanu,
    Yes, agreed...ultimately SELF has all, prana + all the senses. Yet my point was, if one contols prana and befriends prana, all else follows e.g. the mind. Yet I see your point.

    Now, one place I will need your POV is A+ha+m. I do not see this as mind. I see this as pure SELF, pure I.

    So the 'one who pavate' = the one who is purified, unless we use it in the Rig Ved term for flows or ksarati, the flowing of soma. With that in mind, do you wish to connect pavate to SELF, or prana? just wondered...

    also note I added a sutra (4) to the list above. You have mentioned you have used the pranyam technique. This is good. I continue to use these techniques with my dharana and dhyana. It is a blessing and very complementary to most if not all techniques.

    One person I have great respect for is Paramahamsa Nithyananda ... he said of all the thousands of techniques, if all had to be washed away, and only a single one has to be picked to remain on this earth, he would pick the breath technique.

    Perhaps we can start a new threat on this?

    Pranams,
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #10
    Join Date
    March 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,193
    Rep Power
    355

    Re: David Godman explains enquiry

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~
    Namste atanu,
    So the 'one who pavate' = the one who is purified, -----
    Pranams,
    Namaskar Yajvan,

    One who pavate -- is one God of Brihadarayanaka, and I understand it as one who breathes.

    Om
    That which is without letters (parts) is the Fourth, beyond apprehension through ordinary means, the cessation of the phenomenal world, the auspicious and the non-dual. Thus Om is certainly the Self. He who knows thus enters the Self by the Self.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •