does xtianity have to offer us morality? and why islam says what it does about jesus

[BryonMorrigan]

Funny thing about the "Not all Christians are like that..." conversation:

Yesterday, I was in a bad mood, as I was trying to do a paper on something really boring for my doctorate in psychology, and the kids were being very loud and disturbing. I mentioned this on FaceBook, and my Christian friend looked up a passage in the Gita to post in response to put me in a better mood.

So yes, occasionally you run into a good person who happens to be a Christian. It's just so often that the people who are acting from their identity as a "Christian" first, rather than a "Good Person" first, are the ones you seem to encounter on a daily basis.

[Ramakrishna]

Because my niece was converted my name and address were put on the actively pursue list they have. But, because we are inside a gated community they could not come to my door. No religion can.

Instead they began mass mailing me to my home. Finally, I printed off my favorite picture of Siva with my favorite verse from the Tirukural.

I can't imagine what happened when she opened up that letter to face Siva. I wrote on the sidelines. "Just holding Beloved Siva in a picture blesses you...I pray for your heart and mind to become opened to the Truth."

She could have torn up the picture, but she can never tear up the Truth.

This immediately stopped the mailings.

Siva works miracles even on the mundane.

I'm sure somewhere out there, the JW probably scratched me off that
"actively convert" list.

Namaste NayaSurya,

How wonderful! Now I know what to do if I am ever in a situation like that!

Jai Sri Krishna

[atanu]

Jehovas witness used to come to my place and try to convert me. If I was not in a hurry I used to talk with them about all different things. At start they thought I was hooked, but after a while they became perplexed by my questions and finally left me alone instead. I remember when I asked them where they were when in deep sleep... they became quite angry at this question since they could not answer.

Namaste Ekanta

This is hilarious. Isn't it. But this is only to be expected. The poor fellows have been told only that which they should know.

There is an important story. Ashtavakra's father was killed by a Brahmin sage of Janaka's court by drowing in a river. The Brahmin in Janaka's court debated with others under condition that the defeated would be drowned. In this way, he had drowned quite a few other Brahmins. Ashtavakra wanted a revenge and so challenged and actually defeated the court Brahmin. He however, forgave the defeated one. The court Brahmin then revealed to Ashtavakra that Ashtavakra's father was not killed but was invited to a Yagna that Sea Lord Varuna was conducting. 9 priests were required for the Yagna and Ashtavakra's father was the ninth.

What we see is not the full story ever.

I have speculated for some time whether Mandukya Up. like knowledge exist in Koran or Bible or not. And Lo. Such knowledge is there but more surprising is the fact that conventional christian and muslim teachers present only gross physical meaning out of those verses. At the same time I have come across poems by some christians and some muslims who have written how a soul meets the beloved in deep sleep.

This knowledge of Pragnya Ghana of deep sleep (shushupti) is actually too much. One can manipulate the consciousness and do many good or horrible tasks. But most people in western shores being of the James Bond Hero and/or James Bond villain mentality, it would probably be too big a risk. In this yuga, the hero is one who can dominate the world -- who can steal by outwitting others, who can physically destroy opponents, who is very rich etc etc. The popularity of this genre of film/music/literature (Batman, Superman, Spiderman and what not) hints at what the common psyche today is.

In Yoga Vasista there are stories as to how Vishnu, who maintains the Universe, hides the truth till opportune time. I think every thing fits to the Master plan. Self will want Self when Self wants such to happen. Desirelessness is the prime criteria. Till desirelessness is attained, Shiva just sleeps with closed eyes and lets Maya play. And in this world, immature will always try to dominate the mature with ignorance. We smile.


Om Namah Shivaya

[ozarkwriter]

The fact is, Christianity has no discernible effect on the way Christians live their lives. There's no evidence for this belief that faith in Christianity is necessary for personal morality.

I'm sorry that this is the case today. This wasn't the case in the early years of Christianity and it still isn't the case in some small communities of believers yet today.
99% of what is being promoted by "Christians" around the world in the last 1700 years doesn't not resemble the life and teachings of Christ at all. Anything that is not consistent with the sermon on the mount and the beatitudes cannot truthfully be called Christian.

[sanjaya]

I'm sorry that this is the case today. This wasn't the case in the early years of Christianity and it still isn't the case in some small communities of believers yet today.

I'm not so sure about that. I can't comment on early Christians, since all we have to go on is the ante-Nicene fathers. As for these "small communities of believers," who are we talking about? Yes, there are cases of Christians in Muslim majority nations who get persecuted and respond with forgiveness. There are also Christians in the Northern part of India (Nagaland, for example) who are terrorists. Again I have to stand by my earlier comment: Christianity seems to have no discernible effect on the morality of people. There are good Christians and bad Christians. To me this simply points to the impotence of the Christian religion to effect any real moral change.

99% of what is being promoted by "Christians" around the world in the last 1700 years doesn't not resemble the life and teachings of Christ at all. Anything that is not consistent with the sermon on the mount and the beatitudes cannot truthfully be called Christian.

Yes, I agree that the sermon on the mount is good and compatible with Hindu teaching. It's the rest of the Bible that's the problem. As far as the "false Christians" (or whatever we choose to call them) go, how long are we going to excuse Christianity by dismissing the practices of its followers? It seems to me that when one regards oneself as saved and others and damned, it will result in a superiority complex. And we can see that this is usually what happens. How can a genuinely good religion result in so much bad behavior? With the exception of Islam, no other religion in the world has resulted in so much immorality (judged even by a Christian standard) as Christianity. In the face of such evidence, why are we trying to hold on to some belief in the genuine goodness of the Christian religion? As Lord Jesus himself said, a tree can be judged by its fruits. I think Jesus would disavow most of his followers, the religion they've created in his name, and the Bible itself. I really don't see any way that we can say that Christianity has many redeeming virtues.

I'm not trying to bash this religion, I only wish to approach things logically.

[saidevo]

Vegetarian Bible originally?

Atanu is wondering, "I have speculated for some time whether Mandukya Up. like knowledge exist in Koran or Bible or not."

Here is an interesting article that attempts to trace the Hindu origins of Judaism; says that originally it was only a vegetarian covenant; and that the later animal sacrfices, meat eating and slavery were due to the corrupted teachings of the original scriptures in the name of revision by the rich and powerful.

THE HINDU AND VEGETARIAN ORIGINS OF JUDAISM
http://aumshalom.com/hindu.htm
http://aumshalom.com/hindu1.htm

[Ao]

I think every thing fits to the Master plan. Self will want Self when Self wants such to happen. Desirelessness is the prime criteria. Till desirelessness is attained, Shiva just sleeps with closed eyes and lets Maya play. And in this world, immature will always try to dominate the mature with ignorance. We smile.


Om Namah Shivaya

Beautifully put!

And kudos to Sanjaya for his irrefutable logic.

[Kumar_Das]

My whole point of this thread is that Hindus don't need everything to be shoved at their faces for them to accept and follow blindly. God, some who focus upon and/or consider as Vishnu, doesn't "throw" things from "heaven" down to earth dictating us every single thing that we are supposed to follow. The Ramayana appears as mythology no less, yes. But as simple as it may be, it is an epic of morality even though it belongs to a certain phase of time. And nothing is explictly stated like "do this or this, because you have to, or else Narayana will get upset and cast you into Hell-Fire". Instead we use analytical and critical thinking to evaluate whatever it has to offer us regarding morality.

Of all literature, it is the height of human morality. It talks about so many things on so many levels but presents them in a story format. Even a person who doesnt consider Rama to having existed or as an incarnation of God either because he doesn't consider Vishnu as God or doesn't believe in God still can see the wisdom within it. It is so simple, almost child-like yet as a literature is unrivalled and stands out apart from others for the value of its content.

I have met kind, loving Christians in my lifetime...three were like Fathers to me. A mormon elder, catholic priest and the last was a black southern baptist preacher who taught me about modesty, purity and compassion.

When I was 13 years old, my whole world was coming apart, that black man protected me from preditors, and reminded me that this moment of darkness could define who I became or who I didn't. I didn't.

Now, these were the pinacles of compassion and love. Sadly...very sadly...these creatures are as rare in my lifetime as double rainbows.

Yeah I prefer xtians over muzzies lol. There are more good individuals amongst the whole of Christian population than that of the muzzies.