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Thread: KAnchi ParamAchArya satsangham

  1. #21
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    Re: KAnchi ParamAchArya satsangham

    guru has fatherliness too

    If appA--(Tam)father is guru then guru is appA too!

    In the nIti shAstram, five people are referred to as appA. As to who they are:

    जनिता चॊपनेता च यस्तु विद्यां प्रयच्छति ।
    अन्नदाता भयत्राता पञ्चैते पितरः स्मृताः ॥

    janitA chOpanetA cha yastu vidyAM prayachChati |
    annadAtA bhayatrAtA pa~jchaite pitaraH smRutAH ||

    1. janItA--one who gives birth, is the father known to everyone.

    2. upanItA--one who performs the sacred thread ceremony for the son: (This is usually the father but then) for many sons whose father is no more, it happens that another man performs the ceremony, right?

    • Even when the father is alive, when the brahmopadesham is done for two sons in the same muhUrtam--auspicious duration, then for one son the father and for the other, another man like chittappA--(Tam)father's younger brother or periyappA--(Tam)father's elder brother vests him with the sacred thread, right? -- Such a man whoever he is, he too is a father.

    • The shAstra--scriptures say that only he who has good gAyatrI anuShThAnam--rigor of chanting the gAyatrI mantra (and doing sandhyA vandanam) should do the brahmopadesham for the child.

    • In ancient times, a janaka pitA--father giving birth, who did not have the rigor, had the upadesham done for his son, only through men who had attained siddhi--competence, in the gAyatrI. Such guru becomes that son's father.

    3. yastu/yachcha vidyAM prayachChati--one who teaches the vidyA--different subjects of education, only this is our viShayam--subject. So one who is guru (teaching vidyA) is a father.

    4. annadAtA--if a man nourishes giving sAdam--(Tam)meals, then he is a father for the one who dines.

    5. bhayatrAtA--one who protects when there is fear, he is a father too.

    Thus, there are five men (who are considered as father). But then what is prasiddha--well known, next to the father who gave birth, is the pitA sthAnam--father status, to the guru only (rather than to the other three people).

    If that father gives janma--birth, this father (guru) destroys janma!

    • As to how it can be said of this man (that he is a father), when only he who gives janma is properly a father,

    just as a direct father enables a jIva--individual soul, to take birth in the bhUta prapancham--physical world, this man enables birth in the Atma prapancham--spiritual universe!

    Just as he gives the physical life, this man gives the spiritual life! So he can be said to be a father, right?

    In the path of vaidika anuShThAnam--Vedic rigors, for those who, upanayana pUrvam--undergoing the sacred thread ceremony, enter pAramArthikam--the path that leads to the supreme truth, there is this name dvijanma--of two births,--as iru piRappALar in Tamizh.

    • In Adi kAlam--ancient times, it was only guru, who thus performed the upanayanam of giving the second birth, thereby becoming a pitA--father, and thereafter keeping the shiShya--pupil with him in gurukulavAsam--residing in guru's home, and cultivating the pupil.

    • It is known by the very mentioning (of the word) gurukulavAsam, residing with him! The second birth that takes place as soon as the upanayanam is performed, is dvitIya janma.

    • The name dvijanma is there for the pakShi--bird too. After the female mother sits on the egg and hatches so the shell opens with a crack, coming out as a pUraNa pakShi--complete bird, is the second birth.

    • He is the guru, who keeps the jIva--individual soul, and hatches the pupil with anugraham--divine favour, so the pupil gets the pUraNa rUpam--full form, in which the shell of ANavam--(Tam)ego cracks and he flies away to paramAtman--supreme soul.

    Even in mentioning the student as pupil[/b] in English, there is this dvijanma tatvArtam--principle of two births, although they don't know it.

    • [u]Pupa
    is the stage before a worm becomes an insect. [laughing] instead of dvijanma it is chaturjanma--four births, for the pUchchi--(Tam)insect!

    Instead of just the two births as egg and then the complete prANi--animal, there are four births (to the insect):

    first the egg, and then worm; thereafter that worm, puking a silky thread from itself and weaving a cocoon around it, and entering the stage of inaction inside, is the pupa; and then the (final) birth as the complete insect that comes flying out from the cocoon, tearing it apart--thus four births!

    pupa would be egg-shaped too. The word pupil has come only from that word.

    It is also said that the kAryam--action that guru does is like the wasp stinging at its worm to make the worm become a wasp.

    • When saying that, we tie up the second and fourth stages as the insect being born from the worm.

    Only our vaidika sampradAya abhiprayas--opinions of the Vedic tradition, were prevalent in Adi kAlam--ancient time in the western countries, and later when they went in a different path, they had some sort of mix (of their former Vedic path) and only thus the pupa--pupil has arisen.

    • But then in later times that tAtparyam--reference was lost on them--as in their anuShThAnam--spiritual life, nothing like the guru-shiShya pathati--guru disciple series continued!

    • Today we have forgotten everything too, following them (blindly) as if the western culture is the life!...


    What appA-ammA--(Tam)father and mother, give us, is the first janma--birth, with the body having the precedence.

    • What occurs in the upanayanam by guru upadesham is the second janma, with the soul having the precedence.

    • Progressing on and on and on, in that janma, only in the end, does one become the Atman, paramAtman, destroying the bhUta prapancha janma--physical birth(s).

    The guru who does-upadesham--teaches, veda vidyA--Vedic education, doing upanayanam is NOT the one who takes the pupil up to that end sthAnam--status/position.

    • Only to the extent of creating chitta shuddhi--refinement of mind, through karma--religious/spiritual acts, and chitta aikAkryam--unity of mind, through bhakti--devotion, that he (guru) guides in the path.

    • For them (these refinement and unity) to become enduring and stand dRuda--firm, one should be thoroughly plunged in life so all his karma are spent and all that the jIva--individual soul, owes to the deva-RiShi-pitrus--Devas, Sages and Ancestors, and to the jIva prapancham--world of Jivas are settled.

    • For this to happen, depending on individual saMskAras--accomplishments/purification, it might take a short or long time.

    • Only in-apUrvam--extraordinarily. for some persons, can the brahma jnAnam--knowledge of Brahman, of becoming paramAtman, can be siddha--accomplished, right from brahmacharya Ashramam--the stage of bachelorhood, or even that (stage) absent or incomplete.

    • Others can go to the vidyAbhyAsam--prospect of knowledge, of becoming Brahmam,

    only after the brahmacharya Ashramam that starts with the gurukulavAsam after upanayanam, is over,

    and then remaining in the gRuhasthAshramam--stage of householder for several years, becoming involved with life, all the karma debts being settled, and the chitta shuddhi, aikAkryas are sampAdana--accomplshed.

    When thus the chittam becomes shuddha and the aikAkryam of unified thinking is siddha--accomplished, another guru would come to make that chittam hold on to paramAtman as the single goal. He would accord the saMnyAsam--the stage of renunciation, and do upadesham.

    • Owing to the mahiman--might/power of that upadesham--the mahiman of that guru's anugraha shakti--power of divine favours, abiding in the upadesha vAkyam--the shiShya, progressing in stages in the pAramArthika life that he has taught, would make it birthless for him ultimately.

    At that stage the shiShya himself attains the birth of becoming parabrahmam.

    *** *** ***
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  2. #22
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    Re: KAnchi ParamAchArya satsangham

    pitA=guru in other religions

    'Father' is only from pitA, pitRu. The matagurus--priests, of the White Men who can somewhat be held in our guru sthAnam--position--when saying mataguru--(Tam)religious priest, it sounds as the exact term 'guru'--such people too, they call only Father.

    • We call them pAdiri (in Tamizh). That came from the term padre, which is Portuguese; and means father too. Even before the English and French people, the Portuguese, coming over to India, did all that violence and plunder and captured our towns; built churches and engaged in religious conversions. So, on the basis of padre they had in their bhAShA--language, the Tamizh [b]pAdiri[/i] arose. Fahter, padre whatever, the mUlam--root is only the SaMskRta piTRu!

    • Words among the European languages, would occur in corrupted form. There is this Saint Thomas Mount in Madras; and then the Santhome. What is 'Saint Thomas' in English is the 'San thome' in the Portuguese. The French are known as Frank. That in our desham--country became in due course a term to mention all Europeans. And became the fIrangi in North India and paRanggi in our area. This is why the place Saint Thomas Mount (in Chennai) came to be known as paRanggi malai (in Tamizh).

    • Near Chidambaram (a town in TamizhnADu) on the shores of the ocean is a place called paRanggip pETTai, which is also known as Porto Novo. It means a new port in the Portuguese. The people of that country when they built a new port there and settled, named it such. [Probably the terms 'new, nova' too came from the SamSkRta nava--sd]

    Just like we call guru our pitA the(ir) Father is Padre.

    But then except in the Jaina Bauddha religions that were born in this (our) country, nothing such as our guru-shiShya sambandham--guru-pupil relationship--the atyanta bAndhavyam--close relationship of the guru shiShyas--can be spoken of as prevalent.

    It can't be seen in the other religions, among the denominations that are popular today, (the equivalent of our)

    • guru, injecting in the shiShya, his manta shakti which has come to him in sampradAyam--tradition, by doing-upadeshan--teaching him;

    • and taking charge of his life and taking him up to the portal of mokSham--liberation;

    • and in the same way, the shiShya too, doing-sharaNAgati--surrendering to (the guru), as his guru is everything to him, considering him as deivam--divinity, and doing sakala kaingkaryam--all kinds of services.

    Among those who belong to the Turkish religion [Islam], a matasta--religious man, of that religion told me that

    • one who is called Murshid in guru sthAnam and the other called Murid in the shiShya sthAnam can be menationed in a similar way,

    • but then he told me that in their samudAyam--society, it is not vyApakam--prevalent as in our desham--country.

    Like the bAndhavyam of appA-piLLai--(Tam)father-son, in the outer world, the prominence of it (such relationship) arising as guru-shiShya in the inner world belongs in-visheSham--distinctly/distinguishedly, to our vaidika kalAchAram--Vedic civilization.

    • I tried to tell you that the mata bodhaka--religious preacher, who to some extent approaches our guru sthAnam in other sampradAyas--religious traditions, is spoken of as father.

    • The Turks refer to such a person as BAbA. In their longtime influence, in North India, Hindus too speak of many BAbAs. For that term too is the meaning father only.

    (to continue)
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  3. #23
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    Re: KAnchi ParamAchArya satsangham

    Jews refer to them as Rabbi. They say that the term came from the root rabh which means 'great, one with greatness'. It is only the SaMSkRta bRuh that has become rabh.

    • When as Brahmam the sAkShAt paramAtman is mentioned, it is only because it is the greatest of all. Only That (Brahmam) is greater than the greatest, the Great One that has within itself sakalam--all this world, right?

    • To that Veda, which refers to and teaches us about the Greatest is also the name brahma. For the word guru is also the meaning 'one who is great'.

    • That is why the Jews call him Rabbi, one who teaches the Talmud which speaks about their shAstra vidhis--scriptural injunctions. This only shows the existence of the thought process of the vaidika kalAchAram--Vedic culture, all over the world.

    There is an upaniShad called prashnopaniShad. In its concluding part occurs (the incident) that the shiShyas who were taught by their RiShi, did-namaskAram--prostrated to their guru saying, "Since you guided us to the other side of advidyA--nescience only you are our pitA--father."

    • To put it precisely, to the text that occurs in the mUlam--source as 'tvam hi naH pitA', the meanings is 'Aren't you our father?' 'Who we call father in practical life is not so, only you are the real father' is the inner meaning of this.

    • This is because, that father only gave us the janmA--birth, with death. In that way there have been several fathers in several births. So, how can we call them the real father?

    • Whereas this man (guru) is one who as THE single man, gives us deathless birth, which is the shAshvata--perpetual Atman, one that is amRutam (amRtam--nectar, as well as that which is deathless).

    • If they [the fathers we were endowed with in several births] gave us dying birth, this man kills that very birth! And gives us shAshvata padam--the state of eternity.

    • Here our (Adi Shankara) AchAryAL says this in his bhAShyam--commentary:

    "Just as driving a boat to the other side of the ocean, from the ajnAna samsAra sAgarm--ocean of worldly life of necescience, which is filled with the crocodiles janmam-jAram-maraNam-rogam-duHkham--birth-old age-death-disease-sorrow, using the boat of jnAnam--knowledge, from punarjanmA--rebirth, to mokSham--the state of release, of paripUraNa--complete liberation, the guru ferries us, therefore, only to him rather than the others is the reference of pitRutvam--fatherhood most appropriate.

    In loka vyavahAram--worldly affairs, among the pUjana shreShTas--excellent people who are to be worshipped, the first place of is given only to the pitA who gives us janmA--birth. If that be so, what should not be said of the guru who gives the state of abhaya--fearlessness, which is paripUraNam--complete/absolute?"


    • To say state of abhaya is only the sthiti--standing of advaitam--non-duality. To say bhayam--fear is dvaitam--duality. There is much to say about it, but not now.

    • What is known to everyone is bhava-bhayam. bhavam means samsAra--the series of ihaloka--life in this world. That is dvaitam. Adding bhayam, it is mentioned as bhava-bhayam--fear of/in worldly life. Then abhayam--fearlessness is only advaitam, right?

    If guru is one who does-anugraham--gives us divine favour, and lets us attain that state (of abhayam), what to say of his mahiman--greatness?
    (to continue)
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

  4. #24
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    Re: KAnchi ParamAchArya satsangham

    I came to show that the words pitA, guru are used to refer to the same AsAmi--(Tam)man. To call pitA guru is loka-vyavahAram--worldly practice. In contrast, I showed from the upaniShads how shiShyas--the great men who themselves individually held the guru-sthAnam--position of guru-- held their guru as their real father.

    Elders like Kambar are those who observed the vaidika aupaniShada sampradAyam--tradition of the Vedas and UpaniShads, and taught the abhiprAya--opinions of the Vedas and UpaniShads in their Tamizh books.

    The opinion that we were look at--that the father who gave birth is only for namesake, the real father is one who brings up the boy in good shape--Kambar has mentioned it in relation to shrI RAmachandra-mUrti.

    Sage VishvAmitra took RAma who was yuva--young, to king Janaka's rAja sadas--royal court, in order to tie the string of the dhanuSh--bow, introduces RAma to Janaka. At that time he starts from the greatness of the sUrya-vaMsha--SUrya clan (in which RAma was born).

    Starting from SUrya who started the clan, he proceeds to speak of the greatness of all the successors--Manu, BRutu, IkShavAku, Kakutstha, MAndhAta, Shibi, BhagIratha, Raghu--ends with the greatness of Dasharatha and then says that RAma is the son born out of the purtra-kAmeShTi yAgam performed by Dasharatha.

    It is here that he comes to the point we were discussing: "The four brothers starting with RAma are the sons of Dasharatha for only namesake"--'புதல்வர் என்னும் பெயரே காண்!
    --pudalvar ennum peyarE kAN!', but then one who brought them up and shaped them is only sage VasiShTha--'உபநயன விதி முடித்து மறை ஓதுவித்து வளர்த்தோன் வசிட்டன் காண்!--upa~nayana vidhi muDithtu maRai Oduvithtu vaLarthtOn vasiTTan kAN!'--Thus has Kambar sung about the speech of sage VishvAmitra.

    Note:
    The quote in question from Kambar is:

    744. புதல்வரின் வேத முதலிய கலைப்பயிற்சி
    திறையோடும் அரசு இறைஞ்சும்
    செறி கழல் கால் தசரதனாம்
    பொறையோடும் தொடர் மனத்தான்
    புதல்வர் எனும் பெயரே காண்?
    உறை ஓடும் நெடு வேலாய்!
    உபநயன விதி முடித்து,
    மறை ஓதுவித்து, இவரை
    வளர்த்தானும் வசிட்டன் காண். 1.11.24
    ---கம்பராமாயணம், பாலகாண்டம், குலமுறை கிளத்து படலம்.

    <lang=eng>744.<-lang> pudalvarin vEda mudaliya kalaippayiRci
    'tiRaiyODum arasu iRai~jchum
    cheRi kazhal kAl dasarathanAm
    poRaiyODum toDar manathtAn
    pudalvar enum peyarE kAN?
    uRai ODum ~neDu vElAy!
    upa~nayana vidhi muDithtu,
    maRai Oduvittu, ivarai
    vaLarttAnum vasiTTan kAN.' <lang=eng>1.11.24<-lang>
    ---kambarAmAyaNam, bAlakANDam, kulamuRai kiLathtu paThalam.
    रत्नाकरधौतपदां हिमालयकिरीटिनीम् ।
    ब्रह्मराजर्षिररत्नाढ्यां वन्दे भारतमातरम् ॥

    To her whose feet are washed by the ocean, who wears the Himalayas as her crown, and is adorned with the gems of rishis and kings, to Mother India, do I bow down in respect.

    --viShNu purANam

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