Jesus; God-realised or Avatar?

[Paris-Izi]

Namaste.

Was Jesus spiritually developed beyond that of God-realisation? Not to say that God-realisation isn't the ultimate level that we all should be aiming for or anything, but don't Christians refer to Jesus as literally being the incarnation of God on earth. My understanding that these two states are different from one another. What do people think about this?

[Avazjan]

What people think about something like this usually isn't relevant to the truth. Who Jesus was, and what he was about, has been devoured by the passage of time. What Christianity identifies as his teachings today, and its account of his life, is woefully inaccurate.

For my part, I'll opine that Jesus fully realized God, and had incarnated specifically to fulfill that purpose, and was thus essentially an avatar.

This isn't very important to Hindus today because Jesus is not really known to people outside of Kashmir, and even there most of his legacy has been obliterated.

Some people come up with all sorts of elaborate classification schemes for avatars hinging on how 'direct' an avatar is, but I do not think that is necessary.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam:

This is like saying, do you want to die by gun or hanging? There are more than two choices.

I choose Jesus didn't exist, was created by someone's imagination. Something like Harry Potter. There just is no proof for the myth.

That is not to say this Abrahamic faith has a few decent followers.

Aum Namasivaya

[Sahasranama]

Jesus is a delusion.

[Kumar_Das]

I find Jesus as a waste of my time altogether and even though initially Hindus have had a sympathetic view of Christians e.g. Gandhiji and the Malayalees giving shelter to St.Thomas etc

I think the European colonization and the countless missionaries ever since then have spread so much of false propaganda to demonize Hinduism as they have throughout history of all "pagan" religions.

like how Vishnu is satanic for sleeping on a bed of snakes.

The xtians failed miserably in India trying to work their trickery on how we need Christ to save our sinful souls.

They only ended up converting some untouchables and mainly the previously shamanist North East Indians.

Today their game is up, so they are playing their cards differently by saying Vishnu is the "Cosmic Christ" or that Jesus was a yogi or an advaitin and all sorts of nonsense.

My advise is, dont burden yourself with unnecessary baggage.

I used to date a chinese girl who was xtian and she was really into her religion. So I was curious and decided to find out all about xtianity.

So I decided to visit a church. I asked the people around there and they asked me to come for a meeting or something for a speech by the pastor.

And the pastor drew comparison with Hinduism by calling Hindus as "idolators" and saying how we are worshipping animals (at that time he flashed a picture of Lord Ganesha).

There was a xtian man whom I spoke to and he said that Hindus were worshipping false gods and he said satan has influenced them by pointing out the yali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yali_(Hindu_mythology) as a demoniac creature just because it has tusks and sharp teeth.

It was really a torture for me just visiting a church and observing the xtian worship.

After awhile I was like screw this, and I decided to never ever go there back again.

This happened a long time ago, so the details are fuzzy.

I consider xtians to be trinitarian polytheists of the most nonsensical sort masquerading as monotheists and having the audacity to label everyone else as heretics/heathens/infidels/pagans.

They pick and choose their idol, a single one, one time one shot solution for everything, some randomn man nailed to a cross.

Just doesnt make sense to me, sorry.

The bible to me is intellectually deficient spiritual defecation compiled into a single book.

I'm just very sad for Westerners that their entire history has been overshadowed by this worthless steaming pile of crock. Had they been left to themselves they would have been far more advanced than what they already are.

There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of jesus.

The christian deity has got a multiple personality disorder, he is father in the heavens, son walking on earth and holy ghost that possesses you once in a while.

The muslim deity on the other hand is a jealous, short-tempered, self centered complex ridden joker.

abrahamic gods always make alot of noise with false promises, exaggerated claims and vicious threats but make little sense or logic.

If you ask me they need to have an appointment with a mental health practioner asap to sorts their issues out. We need them to come out clean once and for all.

They have caused more violence and ignorance than any other thing on the face of this planet.

Satan seems to be the good guy here by leading people away from these hysterical lunatics.

If there is a God who would create you, just so you would worship him and is fully responsible for the way everything turns out to be including even the unbelievers but would send you to burn in hell if you do not oblige to worshipping him.

It means this God created you, just to have you burn and suffer in the end. What a sadistic creature.

[Alise]

Namaste,

As ex-Christian I must say, that right now I don't believe that Jesus existed. Even if there were Yeshuas around that time, none was like the one in the Bible. As bible was written after death of the Jesus there is a lot of mistakes, if it isn't a fairy tale (I didn't mean to use that word). There is no proof besides gospels, that Jesus the miracle man existed.
Basically when I left Christianity I said that there are many people in modern times who have these powers of healing & looking in future or so (I watched russian show where one woman called herself witch, this show was about testing powers with real skeptics, but she was finalist) but none of these people call themself God incarnations or sons/daughters of God. If they would, people would think they are really insane.

Search on Google 'Jesus didn't exist' and you will find a lot of information.

But on last note: I have nothing against Jesus Christ as person, but I strongly dislike Christianity.


Have a nice day,
~Alice

P.S. Please let me know, if I accidently break any rule of HDF.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

Many have offered their opinions above and I respect your POV. I am not here to dis-prove any ones post but to offer my assessment that Jesus the Christ did in fact exist.

What do I base my assessment on? The test of time. Jesus remains a central figure in Christianity for 2000 years. Now do I think Jesus is the son of God - yes, but so are we all. I am all for any/all positive influence in our society. I do not have to dislike Jesus or Christianity to be more firm in sanātana dharma.

Christianity offers value for certain people at a point in their evolution to fullness ( brahman). I cannot fault them even if they fault me.
There is no doubt differences in this world - some we like, others not so much. But as one grows one begins to see the differences also come from the same place.
Like a tree, so many branches, and leafs, and bark and roots, yet they are all the expression of the sap. The sap becomes the flower, the smell, the bud, bark, branch, etc. All different expressions of the same sap that works behind the scenes. as does brahman , become all that is in this Universe, even Christians.

If for some reason Christians erk you in some way, consider this from the mahābhārata , śanti parvan:

What wonder is there that a person destitute of wisdom do many improper acts (act in a certain way out side of dharma) ; knowing this a person of real wisdom never gets angry with others when they become guilty of folly ....
praṇām

references
My additional views ( not to convince but to offer my POV): http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3876

[atanu]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast�

Many have offered their opinions above and I respect your POV. I am not here to dis-prove any ones post but to offer my assessment that Jesus the Christ did in fact exist.

What do I base my assessment on? The test of time. Jesus remains a central figure in Christianity for 2000 years. Now do I think Jesus is the son of God - yes, but so are we all. I am all for any/all positive influence in our society. I do not have to dislike Jesus or Christianity to be more firm in sanātana dharma.

Christianity offers value for certain people at a point in their evolution to fullness ( brahman). I cannot fault them even if they fault me.
There is no doubt differences in this world - some we like, others not so much. But as one grows one begins to see the differences also come from the same place.
Like a tree, so many branches, and leafs, and bark and roots, yet they are all the expression of the sap. The sap becomes the flower, the smell, the bud, bark, branch, etc. All different expressions of the same sap that works behind the scenes. as does brahman , become all that is in this Universe, even Christians.

If for some reason Christians erk you in some way, consider this from the mahābhārata , śanti parvan:

What wonder is there that a person destitute of wisdom do many improper acts (act in a certain way out side of dharma) ; knowing this a person of real wisdom never gets angry with others when they become guilty of folly ....
praṇām

references
My additional views ( not to convince but to offer my POV): http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3876

Pranam Yajvanji

The Self We Share
Rumi

Thirst is angry with water. Hunger bitter
with bread.

The cave wants nothing to do with the sun.


This is dumb, the self- defeating way
we've been.

A gold mine is calling us into its temple.
Instead, we bend and keep picking up rocks
from the ground.

Every thing has a shine like gold,
but we should turn to the source!

The origin is what we truly are. I add a little
vinegar to the honey I give.

The bite of scolding makes ecstasy more familiar.

But look, fish, you're already in the ocean:
just swimming there makes you friends with
glory.

What are these grudges about? You are Benjamin.
Joseph has put a gold cup in your grain sack and
accused you of being a thief.

Now he draws you aside and says,
"You are my brother. I

am a prayer. You're the amen."

We move in eternal regions, yet
worry about property here.

This is the prayer of each:

You are the source of my life.
You separate essence from mud.

You honor my soul. You bring rivers from the
mountain springs. You brighten my eyes.

The wine you offer takes me out of myself into
the self we share. Doing that is religion.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Kumar_Das]

Yajvanji and Atanuji you have beautifully articulated the religion of the mlecchas who will do whatever it takes to demonize us by declaring themselves exclusively as true and the rest dim in darkness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq3ElGdC2fU

Your acceptance of even the most coldhearted hatemongers towards us astounds me.

[MahaHrada]

Your acceptance of even the most coldhearted hatemongers towards us astounds me.

Nothing astonishing about that. The demarcations between Hinduism Islam and Christianity become more and more blurred. This is very dangerous for the future of mankind, not only of India. Imagine the damage should Hinduism really decide to become an ally of the desert dogmas. In the future a distorted narrow minded monotheistic Hinduism could combine forces with an islamic anti capitalistic communism or socialism and orthodox christianity, into an union against the atheistic liberal west, such an interfaith alliance between some Hindus, Christians, Muslims and even buddhists , is already shaping up because some extremists in all these religions already share certain oppressive narrow minded so called "moral" or religious concepts. The uprise of a common "divine" sharia law would cause the downfall of our freedom, ethics and humanism and could usher in a global conflict and a new dark age worldwide.

"Monotheistic Hinduism" is a great danger, that should not be underestimated. Hindus must stay liberal, open minded and respect diversity, and a Hindu should never bow or even acknowledge the existance of an universal divine law of a judgemental monotheistic God aspiring to extend some sort of governmental dominion over society, like the "sharia law" concept, but stick to Yamas and Niyamas only according to desha, kala and adhikari.

An apt title of that variety of modern Hinduism that beliefs all path lead to the same goal and there is only one "God" would be "Monotheistic Hinduism"

The belief in a superior single "God" both imaginend to be a benign father and stern judge in one person, that has created the world and humans and still organises and oversees it watching over every individuals sins and virtues punishing and rewarding him according to whether he strictly adheres to a divine, egalitarian and universal law, is the basic superstition that is needed to erect the whole superstructure of an oppressive religious, political and societal system.

I like to refer you to my posting in another thread where i already expressed my growing impatience with this evil masquerading as good.

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...2&postcount=45