Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37

Thread: Brahman?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    June 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Age
    43
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    33

    Brahman?

    Do all Hindus believe in Brahman?

    I ask because I thought that Brahman was universally regarded as the ultimate Reality of God, with Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva as its primary manifestations, and lesser deities springing from them.

    However, someone in my other thread just said that Shiva was the "Primal Soul."

    Now I'm confused. I do understand that "Hinduism" is a varied collection of traditions, and that some revere one of the "big three" over the others. But I thought Brahman was something they had in common.
    We do not fear the night, who have loved the stars so fondly.

  2. #2

    Re: Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    Do all Hindus believe in Brahman?

    I ask because I thought that Brahman was universally regarded as the ultimate Reality of God, with Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva as its primary manifestations, and lesser deities springing from them.

    However, someone in my other thread just said that Shiva was the "Primal Soul."

    Now I'm confused. I do understand that "Hinduism" is a varied collection of traditions, and that some revere one of the "big three" over the others. But I thought Brahman was something they had in common.
    It depends on the school of thought. Some regard Brahman (impersonal feature of God) as the ultimate reality. Others see Vishnu or Shiva as the ultimate reality. In the Gita, Krishna explains that Brahman (all-pervasive consciousness), Paramatma (the Supersoul/Self within every individual) and Bhagavan(the personal feature/form) are equal aspects of God. They are also described as qualitatively non-different.
    "For a bewildered person in the materialistic way of life, the body, the mind and the senses, which are engaged in sense gratification, are the cause of bondage to repeated birth, death, old age and disease. But for one who is advanced in spiritual knowledge, the same body, senses and mind are the cause of liberation"
    Prabhupada.

  3. #3

    Re: Brahman?

    I should also add that when a person sees Vishnu or Shiva as the ultimate reality, his means that Vishnu or Shiva include Brahman. For some who consider Brahman the ultimate reality, Brahman will include the personal features. But generally speaking, one is considered to come from the other, but I think that they exist simultaneously and none are born of the other.

    I hope I am explaining this properly. It's after 3am and I'm sooo tired.
    "For a bewildered person in the materialistic way of life, the body, the mind and the senses, which are engaged in sense gratification, are the cause of bondage to repeated birth, death, old age and disease. But for one who is advanced in spiritual knowledge, the same body, senses and mind are the cause of liberation"
    Prabhupada.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    June 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Age
    43
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    33

    Re: Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    It depends on the school of thought. Some regard Brahman (impersonal feature of God) as the ultimate reality. Others see Vishnu or Shiva as the ultimate reality.
    OK, thank you.

    In the Gita, Krishna explains that Brahman (all-pervasive consciousness), Paramatma (the Supersoul/Self within every individual) and Bhagavan(the personal feature/form) are equal aspects of God. They are also described as qualitatively non-different.
    Brahman is familiar to me, and similar to my own beliefs.

    Paramata, though.... Would it be fair to describe this as the divine seed of consciousness?

    And Bhagavan, does this indicate the personality, or the body? If the personality, is it mortal?
    We do not fear the night, who have loved the stars so fondly.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    June 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Age
    43
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    33

    Re: Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    I should also add that when a person sees Vishnu or Shiva as the ultimate reality, his means that Vishnu or Shiva include Brahman.
    That makes sense.

    For some who consider Brahman the ultimate reality, Brahman will include the personal features. But generally speaking, one is considered to come from the other,
    Yes, this is my previous understanding. From Brahman, come Brahm, Vishnu, and Shiva. From them come the various deities.

    So, is this the most common/ popular tradition? Or perhaps the one with the oldest history?

    but I think that they exist simultaneously and none are born of the other.
    Like a Trinity?

    I hope I am explaining this properly. It's after 3am and I'm sooo tired.
    Aww... lol. You should get to bed. But you are being very helpful.
    We do not fear the night, who have loved the stars so fondly.

  6. #6

    Re: Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    Brahman is familiar to me, and similar to my own beliefs.

    Paramata, though.... Would it be fair to describe this as the divine seed of consciousness?

    And Bhagavan, does this indicate the personality, or the body? If the personality, is it mortal?
    Bhagavan is personality. And definitely immortal! lol. It includes spiritual form, if one believes in actual form. So Krishna, Vishnu, Shiva, Shakti etc. are representations of Bhagavan.

    Paramatma...I am not sure that 'the divine seed of consciousness' is an accurate description. My own understanding is also limited. I only know Paramatma as the Self within the self. He is the very life and soul within our own self(soul). It is the indwelling witness and guide (as description I just read online).
    "For a bewildered person in the materialistic way of life, the body, the mind and the senses, which are engaged in sense gratification, are the cause of bondage to repeated birth, death, old age and disease. But for one who is advanced in spiritual knowledge, the same body, senses and mind are the cause of liberation"
    Prabhupada.

  7. #7

    Re: Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    Yes, this is my previous understanding. From Brahman, come Brahm, Vishnu, and Shiva. From them come the various deities.

    So, is this the most common/ popular tradition? Or perhaps the one with the oldest history?


    Like a Trinity?
    Oh boy, I think that each sect is likely to argue that their tradition is older. There isn't much evidence to indicate which came first, if any came first. I am not sure which is most popular to be honest. Perhaps someone else would do better at answering this.

    Ok, I am off to bed now. I'll be back soon!
    "For a bewildered person in the materialistic way of life, the body, the mind and the senses, which are engaged in sense gratification, are the cause of bondage to repeated birth, death, old age and disease. But for one who is advanced in spiritual knowledge, the same body, senses and mind are the cause of liberation"
    Prabhupada.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    September 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    70
    Posts
    7,191
    Rep Power
    5038

    Re: Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    Oh boy, I think that each sect is likely to argue that their tradition is older. There isn't much evidence to indicate which came first, if any came first. I am not sure which is most popular to be honest. Perhaps someone else would do better at answering this.
    Vannakkam: I totally agree. Of what value is being the oldest anyway. Oldest is not necessarily equated with best. I certainly don't want to eat the oldest rice and curry around.

    Aum namasivaya

  9. #9
    Join Date
    June 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Age
    43
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    33

    Re: Brahman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    Bhagavan is personality. And definitely immortal! lol. It includes spiritual form, if one believes in actual form. So Krishna, Vishnu, Shiva, Shakti etc. are representations of Bhagavan.

    Paramatma...I am not sure that 'the divine seed of consciousness' is an accurate description. My own understanding is also limited. I only know Paramatma as the Self within the self. He is the very life and soul within our own self(soul). It is the indwelling witness and guide (as description I just read online).
    I'm not sure I understand this. Could you (or anyone else) elaborate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madhuri View Post
    Oh boy, I think that each sect is likely to argue that their tradition is older. There isn't much evidence to indicate which came first, if any came first. I am not sure which is most popular to be honest. Perhaps someone else would do better at answering this.

    Ok, I am off to bed now. I'll be back soon!
    Sweet dreams.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam: I totally agree. Of what value is being the oldest anyway. Oldest is not necessarily equated with best. I certainly don't want to eat the oldest rice and curry around.

    Aum namasivaya
    Yeah, I didn't really think about the can of worms that particular question might open. Sorry about that.

    Anyway, there's no real value in being oldest, it's true. I asked only because knowing which came from which might further my understanding of the various traditions and how they relate to one another.
    We do not fear the night, who have loved the stars so fondly.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    October 2009
    Location
    South of the center line
    Posts
    245
    Rep Power
    607

    Re: Brahman?

    Namaste Storm ji,
    Let me try to answer few of your questions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    Do all Hindus believe in Brahman?
    Most of them do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    I ask because I thought that Brahman was universally regarded as the ultimate Reality of God, with Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva as its primary manifestations, and lesser deities springing from them.
    Yes according to upanishads and vedanta, brahman is generally referred as one without a second, the only reality. Brahma is not a manifestation of brahman. Shiva and vishnu are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    However, someone in my other thread just said that Shiva was the "Primal Soul."
    Yes for shavities, Shiva is definitely the primal soul, just as vishnu is for vaishnavas and shakti is for shakta. let me try to tell you what is exact difference between brahman and shiva,vishnu,shakti. Brahman only refers to impersonal god, one who doesn't perceives anything except his own self. On the other hand Shiva, vishnu can be impersonal as well as personal at differnt level. As personal or sagun God (with form) shiva can give you moksha or his blessings. But brahman doesn't do that, because in world of brahman only he exits.

    On the same from advaitas point of view shiva shoudn't be seen as differnt from brahman, because shiva is same formless brahman as perceived by you under influence of maya. when viel of maya is lifted only shiva/brahman remains, nothing else. take following verse from svetsvatara upanishad.

    When the light has risen , there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence.Siva (the blessed) alone is there. (svet up 4.18) Here we see when veil of maya is lifted jiva(soul) becomes the siva.

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm View Post
    Now I'm confused. I do understand that "Hinduism" is a varied collection of traditions, and that some revere one of the "big three" over the others. But I thought Brahman was something they had in common.

    Well if you will learn a little bit, there wont be any confusion, yes brahman exists in almost very tradition , though names may change. For a shavite, Brahman is called sadashiva, for a vaishnava he is called mahavishnu. But the meaning is near about the same. Hope you will have a great time here.
    When the light has risen, there is no day, no night, neither existence nor non-existence; Siva alone is there. That is the eternal, the adorable light of Savitri, - and the ancient wisdom proceeded thence (Svetasvatara Upanishad IV-18). :)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •